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You're continuously missing the point, dude! For Christs sakes! It doesn't matter whether he was standing or not, he didn't win! To be honest, he didn't have the majority edge over Yoda during the entire fight.
It was the other way around.
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An Ancient Prophecy . . . The deity shall walk forth . . .
I agree that it was a stalemate but my personal opinion is had they kept going Sids would have won. But it is only my opinion seeing i have no prrof. You think Yoda would have won but again that is your opinion because there is no proof. We cant tell because it never happened. Agreed?
No your not freakin getting it!! I agree that the fight was in Yodas favor before Sids got the high ground. But getting the high ground was a strategy Sids deployed which tipped the scales in his favor.Yoda had every chance to gain the high ground but was outclassed by Sids to get there. Its like saying if Sids disarmed Yoda then Sids has the advantage. Well of course he does because he was skilled enough to disarm him. The last part is your opinion completely. Yoda was definetly NOT beating Sids when he had the high ground.
Yodas good no doubt about it. On any other day or in a different setting Yoda would probably pwn Sids. But in the battle in ROTS I saw Yoda flee. Yoda forced a stalemate by running away.We dont know who would have won/lost that battle had it kept going. What im going to say (and hopefully for the last time) is that had they kept going I think Sids would have pulled off the victory. Sids had the high ground which gave him the advantage and we saw Yoda retreating. From these two facts it is only logical to assume that Sids would have come out victorious.
The fact of the matter is that this fight is not the Senate battle, and that that one instance is not indicative of a repeated string of simulated battles between the two of them. Yoda (according to the script) demonstrated superior saber skills, and at least equal force proficiency.
We dont know where the battle takes place. If it is in the senate chamber we can assume the same outcome will occure. Sids taking the high ground and forcing Yoda to flee. There is Dooku and Mace who are completely equal and will stalemate each other. Sids will then come and double team Mace. The sith win. But this is if it takes place in the senate chambers. If the battle takes place somewhere on equal ground the outcome COULD be alot different. But until we know where the battle takes place we cant come to an accurate conclusion.
Registered: May 2005
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You're continuously avoiding the reason of Yoda fleeing because you're in major denial, dude.
Yoda didn't flee because of Sidious.
Yoda was virtually dominating him throughout the fight, but because he left (NOT because of Sidious) Sidious would defeat him if he didn't leave? You're completely smashing Logic here, buddy.
That's like me saying "Yoda wuld have won if they dueled longor becuz Sids tried to flee at the beginginging of their match! lolZ!11"
Sidious LOST with the High ground WHEN he had it.
So, now all you basically have is "Yoda fled."
^ Those two words signify the clay you have left to shape, son.
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An Ancient Prophecy . . . The deity shall walk forth . . .
Why did Yoda run away then. Provide a good argument and I will change my view but until then I am sticking with what I saw. Yoda running away for no other reason than because he was being dominated.
Registered: May 2005
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You are truly . . .
And I mean TRULY . . .
T R U L Y
A damn moron.
Have you WATCHED the Movie? READ the Novel?
Yoda is blasted off of the Pod due to his own overwhelming strength. He falls two hundred feet. Sidious is able to grab on due to the fact he did not fly as far because he weighs less. Clone Troopers were on their way to come. Yoda knew this. Hell, they showed them with Sidious after Yoda left.
So tell me:
Where does Sidious defeat Yoda? When does Yoda say he was defeated by Sidious? When does Sidious say Yoda got stomped by him? Why did George Lucas say it was a stalemate?
Sidious didn't defeat Yoda.
You have it all too wrong, Rampant Ox.
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An Ancient Prophecy . . . The deity shall walk forth . . .
Im an ignorant bastard I know but im going to keep going with this argument until you can convince me that Yoda won. From what I saw (correct me if im wrong) Yoda came in wanting to challenge Sids. Sids got thrown over the chair and tried to run. From fear of Yoda we dont know. Then they battle. No where during the battle do i see Yoda having the advantage. They each throw attacks and they each block attacks. Now Sids gains the high ground. He throws pod after pod at Yoda but with Yoda dodging them. Yoda only manages to throw one pod at Sids and Sids dodges this. No where so far have I seen Yoda dominating Sids. But I have seen Sids being able to throw pod after pod at Yoda. Then they fight again and Yoda falls. From Sids blast or his own blast i dont know but Yoda fell and Sids didnt. We then see Yoda run away. Because of the stormtroopers or because he knows he would lose we dont know but that doesnt change the fact he ran. Now if the battle had kept going we dont know who would have won. But to me it is only logical to assume that Sids would have because of his clear domination during the fight. I will say to Yodas credit however that had the battle taken place somewhere else he probably would have won. But the truth is he had to force a stalemate and run away.
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Yoda blasts Sidious into a chair, and Sidious attempts to run without fighting at all (At least Yoda fought). Yoda managed to halt his little escape and they fought.
Sidious was throwing Pods at Yoda and Yoda was dodging them all.
Yoda decided to stop and throw one at Sidious. The ONE pod he threw was from a downward point of gravity and Sidious had to hop out of the way and it nearly hit him. Yoda had dominated Sidious when it came to Pod chucking . . . With only one damn Pod! When Sidious had the higher ground!
Script (Final Draft):
"YODA uses the Force to throw DARTH SIDIOUS back, knocking him clear over his desk and onto the floor in a heap. "
"DARTH SIDIOUS flies through the air, cape flapping, heading toward the exit. At the last second, YODA flies into the exit and stops the Dark Lord. "
"YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts. "
"The energy bolts begin to arc back on the Emperor. It looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed. "
"PALPATINE reaches out with one hand, and a Senate pod is released from its mooring and heads toward the Podium. PALPATINE uses the Force to hurl pod after pod at YODA, who ducks and jumps from one flying pod to another. YODA leaps away from the pods. He uses the Force to hold one pod suspended in the air. The pod spins and YODA throws it back at PALPATINE, who leaps away at the last moment. "
"YODA leaps after him, but PALPATINE quickly turns and aims the full force of his energy bolts at the tiny green Jedi, catching him in mid-air and throwing him back hard against the Podium. The force causes YODA to drop his lightsaber. YODA blocks the lightning and throws PALPATINE backwards off the podium. YODA is knocked off the Podium and falls several hundred feet to the base of the Podium."
The only part Sidious ever had the upper hand was when he surprised him with Lightning BEFORE they fought.
That's the script of them fighting.
So, can you see where Sidious gets the upper hand? Because I don't see it ANYWHERE.
Yoda throws one Pod back at him and Sidious jumps at the last moment, where as Yoda was dodging all of his Pods when Sidious had the higher ground.
Yoda almost DOOMED Sidious and Yoda managed to block virtually all of his Lightning torrents.
NOW do you get it?
__________________
An Ancient Prophecy . . . The deity shall walk forth . . .
I guess the script is law and it really is pointless for me to argue against it. From what I saw in the movie was Sidious clearly dominating but that is only my opinion. Opinions mean shit round here. So the conclusion I am going to come to is that they stalemated. Neither could overthrow the other. If the battle had kept going I will change what I said before and say that either could take the victory. But we dont know who because it never happened. On even ground anything could happen with Yoda POSSIBLY taking the victory. Once again this has never happened so we cant get an accurate conclusion.
Happy now.
And for the record I hate both Sidious and Yoda. The great Count Dooku would wtf pwn them both while blindfolded and both arms tied behind his back. Bow down to the great Count!!!
No the script is NOT law, the movies are law. And half of the stuff that happens in the script version does not happen in the screenplay. Its Lucasfilm policy that "for absolute canon we must turn to the movies and only the movies".
In the movie Yoda DID NOT disarm Sidious, because we never saw what Sids did with his lightsaber, maybe he put it away and decided to throw pods instead...there are various explanations.
In the movie the lightsaber fight was pretty well even, and the force battle was pretty well even.
Round 1: Sidious throws Yoda back disabling him (1 Sidious)
Round 2: Yoda throws Sids back, not disabling him for nearly as long (1 Yoda)
Round 3: Lightsaber duel is even (tie - 1 Sids 1 Yoda)
Round 4: Sids overwhelms Yoda with senate pods and does not attempt to do anything when Yoda stops one and throws it back, while laughing at Yoda (1 Sidious)
Round 5: Sids and Yoda have a full out force battle, Sids lightning is stopped by Yoda, Yoda wins the force battle, but the fact that he won also causes him to lose the overall fight (1 Yoda for force win. 1/2 for Sids for Yoda losing because of it)
3 1/2 For Sidious
3 For Yoda
Sidious wins. but only by 1/2 which was just luck in that Yoda went flying and fell hundreds of feet. Until then, it was even.
I kinda agree to a certain degree that there is a possibility that he put his lightsaber away. We all saw that Yoda put his away only to catch 1 pod from Sidious, Sidious was tossing a handful of pods....
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Necessity is the mother of inventions.
(Don't be a pig, get an Icejaw sig.)
The final script is what's displayed on the movies. Lucas made a statement that deleted scenes would also count for canon. If anything, a script would be a higher canon than the novelization.
Also, there is nothing contradicted with the script saying Yoda disarmed Sidious, as the actual sequence was not described.
No this is stupid.
You can't assume that because of 1 outcome, Sidious would win every outcome. Why do you think the NBA, MLB, and NHL playoffs are 7 game series? Because 1 win doesn't equate to ALL wins.
In fact, the script implies Yoda is the superior lightsaber wielder, the movie implies Yoda is at least Sidious' equal in force ability. We should use logical deduction and inference to accurately measure up their abilities, not one instance in canon that may or may not be the criterion we are discussing.
Apr 26th, 2006 04:37 AM
