Cronus took steps to make sure he had more worshipers. To me it makes it both a prep and a power feat.
Ok with regards to Darkseid and his stalemate with New Genesis. You are correct that it doesnt matter who rules New Genesis basically because Darkseid even though they are virtually equal cant lead his side over the other side it seems no matter who the leader is. So to me that makes two leaders wit equal forces that Darkseid couldnt defeat.
Please dont tell me you think Thanos would struggle with New Genesis. His clone almost conquered Asgard. His clone and imagine what Thanos could do is this was his life's mission. The reason Thanos has changed as a character because he has accomplished his goals while Darkseid is still out there seeking to conquer New Genesis and subjugate the universe to his rule.
Darkseid also had help stopping Ares. He stopped him on his own but thats not how they defeated him. Darkseid needed other help to actually defeat him but on his own he froze him.
Thanos did fail in ig and all the other sagas but accomplished godhood in the end and righted the universe at the end. So he indeed didnt fail there but actually got to whip the universe's ass and then he was the only being who could fix it let alone handle that kind of awesome power.
Magus makes it clear he wants to kill Thanos but did he,nope. Thanos at his weakest held him off and put together the steps in order to defeat the Magus. The champion of death won. So really yes he left himself open for defeat but handled himself nicely and didnt need anyone to stop the battle. The difference is Thanos interceded because he had to while Darkseid being overconfident was picked off in the field of battle due to carelessness.
Lord Chaos and Master Order both knew in the synthetic gem story that Warlock was needed and that Spiderman had to buy them the time for all this to play out. Thanos not only beat down the competition but someone had to return in spirit form that he previously killed to put him down.
Thanos has had allies outside of stories with artifacts of power. Hes damn good at prep and when he talks all listen. He is a really powerful and convincing manipulator.
Here we see Darkseid co-opting a few supervillains from DC earth (Icicle, the Shade, and the Fiddler). Not high powered by any means, but kind of the equivalent of Thanos’ Secret Defenders evil supervillain group, and shows that he might bring DC supervillains into play.
Though it does have to be noted that Shade is a heavily player.
Eclipso, in all his forms, is just a pawn, a servant to Darkseid. Jean Loring Eclipso (the version being batted around here) had gone toe to toe with Black Mary and done alright, and has faced the Shadowpact and done pretty well as well.
But classic Eclipso has gone up against virtually every hero on DC Earth and done quite well.
HUGE boon to Darkseid for turning powerful figures, including Thanos’ forces, to Darkseid’s side.
Kanto has weapons capable of taking down MM from behind. He’s done so in another instance, as well, in a more direct confrontation, and then stalemated him during MM’s stay on Apokolips.
Dr. Bedlam can inhabit multiple bodies at once, and is pure psionic energy – can’t be destroyed through any conventional means.
Sometimes he inhabits extremely powerful bodies, like this one, capable of giving Captain Marvel a run for his money – and his losing was all part of the plan.
Kyle/Ion vs Grayven. For the record, Kyle wins (I thought I had full scans, but I apparently don’t) with a big blast to the head.
Well, that is pretty much it. There are other heavies, like Kalibak, Virmun Vundabar, more Granny Goodness, more Desaad “feats”….but I think I’ve given a decent idea of the guys that support Darkseid, that Thanos is going to have to go up against.
He didnt think they could handle it. He knew his elite guard would just slow him down a bit. Darkseid wouldnt be talking of evacuation if he fully believed he could handle it. Read the scans again because in my post I took what they said on the page. You are reaching with this when I already posted the scans.
I know it was a surprise attack. But think about this will you it was Doomsday an unthinking brute and Cyborg. Darkseid had more than enough time to react. He has vast powers and a gigantic army. Now I could see if Doomsda just met Darkseid face to face right off the bat but he didnt. Darkseid had time to think about how to deal with this. Its not the same way at all that say Thanos had to deal with the power gem crazed Thor. This to me shows you who thinks calmer in the heat of the moment. Thanos dealt with his sudden problem while Darkseid had time to ponder and failed. Thanos subdued his attacker when he felt the need to. He played with Thor while Doomsday crushed Darkseid. I do agree that Thanos wont just be able to suprise him in one year but I think with what we know that Thanos will be the more collected one in any situation you throw him in while Darkseid wont be as sharp.
Im sure Darkseid if he had a month or so to plan on stopping Doomsday he could I mean come on hes an idiot. Its a shame Darkseid couldnt figure out a way to get him off his planet anyways. So again my point isnt useless it shows how unintelligent Darkseid can be in in the heat of battle.
Champion reaching Thanos isnt that big of a thing. I mean he spends some of his time farming on an uninhabited planet where anyone can get to him. So Im sure he doesnt always have the best security around himself all the time as he can handle himself. He doesnt need an elite guard watching his ass man hes Thanos. If Thanos was at war he isnt going to let his guard down though rest assured and security along with his location will be very secretive and beefed up.
To respond to your numbered posts here I go.
1.I never claimed Darkseid had prep time but it showed his lack of foresight and I question his judgment in dealing with a foe who could be bfr'd and really wouldnt return. It was that easy yet Darkseid seemed clueless.
2.Thanos isnt that hard to get to. The reason I brought it up is because Thanos just bfr'd him in the heat of the moment. He could do the same to Doomsday while Darkseid had a chance to sit and think about how he was going to respond. Thanos would have teleported him away in a heartbeat. Granny Goodness and her taking over the pantheon was with onesided prep so again it shows what they are capable of but if Olympus was ready they wouldnt have fallen.
3.Darkseid didnt banish Superman in Superman/Batman 41. Of course he is capable of it but the only reason again I bring up the Doomsday is because he had shitty judgment and just needed a bfr for the win. Instead he needed Supermans aid because his whole planet got rocked.
Here is my second post that has to do with my clones.
These clones names are Armour,Mystic,Omega,Warrior, and X. Abit more about them and then some scans I want you to see.
Armour-was most involved with the nihilist army. His power level was comparable to the original Thanos. He was most certainly an Iron Man Thanos-clone.
Mystic-He had a significant degree of mystical ability and powers. He was the Dr. Strange Thanos clone. He had mystical abilities but wasn't a match for the real Dr. Strange.
Warrior-He was the Gladiator Thanos clone. Adam Warlock said he was four times as strong as Thanos was. Now that is very strong. I wont lie to you though he did have somewhat of a limited intellect but could definitely brawl with the best of them.
X-He had extensive mental powers and was the Charles Xavier Thanos clone. He mentally projected himself as the real Thanos and at one point enslaved Moondragon to his will.
Omega-He was stated as being twice as powerful as Galactus. So really as powerful as Galactus is more powerful than any ally Darkseid can bring to the table here. His ship that he had could absorb planetary explosions and thus nourish him. Again if he would have had his ship that explosion would have only nourished him.
Ok now pay attention to this scan here as its crucial. It state that these clones were very destructive but that he put one up against Thor here. Millions died but in this war with Apokolips all he has to do is set them against Apokolips. He already admitted he could send these clones after certain characters and places. Instead of Asgard he would set them all up against Apokolips. Again if it runs out of control it doesnt matter as it will be set against Darkseid.
This scan know tells us how they were activated and that their liberator gave them direction. This proves they can be given direction. This time it will be by Thanos himself and the will be directed against Darkseid.
This Armour was about to finish off Gamora so that means hes pretty powerful indeed. Remember that Ronan failed to beat her in a longer battle. He almost pulled it off until Thanos decided otherwise. Note that Armour called Thanos father here.
This last scan is very very very important. Pay attention please here to this one. Thanos created a clone and was able to alter his memories. The reason he did this was probably because he thought that it would be funny. He is that damn good ladies and gentlemen. So again whereas Desaad will lead you to believe these clones cant be given direction and are useless I have proven him utterly and totally wrong. Thanos can alter their memories,set them against anyone, and he will be the one to give them direction.
So basically he can alter their memories and make them want Darkseid dead at all costs. He did this because of the humor factor but think what he could do if were serious and was involved in a war.
You want to talk about mass producing and spreading the wealth ok. How about how the Thanos clone who could grant godlike powers. How about making more and more Thanos clones. Either way you want it I win. If we just are limited only to whats on panel and we cant mass produce I win but if we can mass produce I still win. Armour was powerful enough to defeat Gamora while Warrior was four times as strong as Thanos. You act like Omega was the only clone with any bit of power. I mean what about the Celestial clone or the Thor one. These are very powerful clones here. I want you to understand that.
Ok you want to talk about Thanos being a stone for over a decade well Darkseid has been killed to by the Spectre but his role in dc had him immediately resurrected through no power of his own. Thanos came back when Death wanted him back.
Im sure that Luthor's energies were needed to hurt the Anti Monitor. No other being could have been substituted here.
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Last edited by quanchi112 on Dec 31st, 2007 at 05:47 AM
Ok first off this would be one for the ages as we are taking two behemoths with prep matching wits and resources against one another. Now I know Darkseid has always had Apokolips under his thumb while Thanos really hasnt set out to dominate on sheer force alone. But that doesnt mean he cant.
Tech will play a huge part in this I am sure but Thanos does have impressive tech indeed. He makes Sanctuaries like its a hobby. He has had a massive space armada and a fleet of remote controlled battleships capable of defeating Omega a being with twice the power of Galactus with Thanos' keen mind and a sequence of events that made him susceptible to this method of attack. Now they both can influence time so they basically negate each other. Thanos used time to defeat a godlike being the Magus. I mean to have jurisdiction over and thousand worlds in friggin unbelievable.
Now I will go over briefly the allies that Thanos has at his disposal. Nitro,Rhino,Titanium Man,once again Superskrull, and Geatar are his little group of baddies he sent on a mission for himself. While they arent the baddest on the block they are capable of damage and arent easily dealt with. Ok we also have Paibok,the Blood Brothers, and Gamora. Gamora is a deadly assassin indeed and will also be armed with a knife that was capable of calling the Magus who was a god. Thanos also has the Controller at his side. With the amount of discs he could put out there he could become more than a handful. Thanos also has Skreets who survived an attack from the Maker and who hurt the Fallen One. Speaking of Galactus' heralds Thanos has Terrax as an ally and will use him against Darkseid as well. Thanos has Mangog at his side as well who is above top tier. He has Primo and Reptyl the god as powerful allies as well.
Ok now Ill discuss some of his major allies. First and foremost he has Adam Warlock who when he works with Thanos as opposed to against they save the universe and it seems like there truly is nothing these two couldnt accomplish when working together. Adam's gem is capable of destroying suns and ripping souls out of combatants with ease. He once challenged Mephisto in his own realm and beat him due to his soul gem. Mistress Death will be his silent partner. She will not actively be involved but will provide for him knowledge and he also receives backing from the lady of death. Thanos also has the Fallen One. Fallen One can manipulate dark matter and can fly faster than light.
Thanos has Isaac the supercomputer for knowledge and information as well as the Infinity Well. I have shown that Thanos can teleport people into his ship at great distances and can teleport and change the scene where the battle is taking place at. The boomtubes can accomplish this as well but dont forget it is possible to jam the boomtubes and render the motherboxes useless amidst battle and thus make it very difficult for Darkseid to mobilize his forces all over creation as they come for Thanos' forces.
Thanos and his clones really turn the tide of this battle. As I have shown with his clones by the scans backing up my stance that they can be used in Thanos' favor in this battle. He sent a Thanos clone after Thor. Thanos didnt liberate the Thanosi and didnt personally give them their direction. But this proves they can be given direction and a purpose. He can channel their destructive ways and put it to good use. Thanos will be directing them into war against Darkseid. That was one of the major problems is that somone else got to them first. This time it will be different. Think of the awesome power that Omega brings to the table. He was stated as being twice as powerful as Galactus. Now I dont care what Desaad says about a Promethean Giant and its power because they arent as powerful as Galactus let alone as powerful as Omega was stated to be.
Again Desaad tried to downplay the forces that were gathered to stop Omega. First off he was separated from his craft to pull this plan off anyways. Second off the likes of Captain Marvel,Thanos,Adam Warlock,etc. along with a fleet of battleships in space coordinated with teleportation and a soul gem attack. Let me remind you again that the soul gem defeated Mephisto in his own realm. Inferior minds and weaker characters have defeated Galactus before.
This war will come down to planning and manpower. The Thanos clones we have seen wit the allies in battle will be enough to win the day. Omega wont be all alone this time and will be directed along with the other immense forces here where exactly to channel their attack. Do not forget all it took before on an unprepared Apokolips was two beings to stomp a mudhole in them. Thanos is intellectually superior to the Cyborg and has more raw power on his side and numbers. Granted both sides will be prepared but I merely used this to better show how Darkseid doesnt think as clearly as Thanos in the heat of the moment. They dont call Thanos the king of prep for nothing. With a year to do this Thanos will win it due to superior planning. At the end of the day both of these masterminds would have everything mapped out and planned out. But in the end Thanos adapts to his surroundings better than Darkseid. Thanos is the calmer and cooler thinker under pressure. None of their plans would work perfectly and both would have to adapt during this titanic conflict. Like it was stated in Infinity Abyss that Thanos' most dangerous attribute is his mind. In the end as always Thanos would stand triumphant. http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/...osQuest1-49.jpg
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Last edited by quanchi112 on Dec 31st, 2007 at 08:08 AM
Long story short, my side has all the advantages, and pretty much every contingency planned for.
Psi-ops allows intel of ANY attack on Apokolips before it even happens. Thanos will never be able to plan a surprise attack; we've got that covered.
But the New Gods themselves are immune to any telepathy, and while the parademons and lowly soldiers are not, Apokolips has technology that disables any psionic users.
Darkseid starts off with an incredibly strong, powerful base of operations in Apokolips. Thanos will be forced to conquer and steal any place to stage his attack, which in and of itself takes precious resources, as it does to occupy an enemy stronghold (as Titan would be, with its myriad semi-powerful citizens).
Not only does he have an extremely powerful "main" seat of power in Apokolips, but we've seen he's capable of easily building bases that are the size of New York State, or a moon (Tartarus). And with tesserect technology at his disposal, he could potentially set up bases on the head of a pin on some godforesaken planet -- totally immune to Thanos' sensors, and inaccessible.
Darkseid has the track record of being formidable in all out war. He's humbled the Olympians, he's humbled the Green Lantern Corps, he's easily taken care of Paradise Island. He's waged successful war against New Genesis, conquered Earth and with it the universe itself with pure forces.
Thanos...does not. He finds powerful objects, and wins that way. His technology is lightyears behind the reality warping, sun-splitting arsenal of Apokolips.
His numbers, in both ships and in individual fodder, are way below Darkseid's.
I've given you at least four seperate ways that Darkseid can ressurect not only his own troops and elite, but also use Thanos' troops AGAINST him (Parademons, Cauldron of Rebirth, Omega Effect, Necromina, and ressurection device seen with Lightray). That effectively means inexhausitible troops for Darkseid, and potentially even turning Thanos' guys to his side.
Darkseid has a legion of elite allies, from the above top tier Aggog, to the expert assassin Kanto (with technology capable of taking out countless foes), to the top tier bruiser Kalibak to the potentially above top tier Grayven, to the pantheon busting Granny Goodness to the source banishing/Darkseid impersonating Desaad, to the Legion/Green Lantern/Infinity Man busting Mantis, and on and on and on. Far more loyal than Thanos' are to him.
Thanos releasing his clones is going to be a disaster for him. The only time we've seen them released in such a situation they have done exactly the opposite of everything he has wanted them to do - the Kazar clone, the Celestial Quest clone, the Thor clone, the Infinity Abyss clones -- ALL of them have disobeyed his desires and orders and the only time we've seen more than one at a time produced, they have tried to kill him, to utterly destroy him. He's worked on them for years, and could never get them working properly. Thanos releasing those clones would, in essence, do most of Darkseid's work for him.
Even assuming that he DID, Darkseid STILL has greater forces at his Disposal. The Brimestone Corps gives him a ridiculously large force with minimal input of time and energy and resources, beings capable of creating black holes, immune to telemolecular attack, immune to virtually any other attack.
Thanos' "biggest gun", even assuming working clones, was stunned by Spiderman's webbing for crissakes, bowled over by Adam's soul gem (despite the fact that it had no real soul!), and was ultimately defeated by a bunch of space ships firing at it.
Darkseid's ace in the hole nearly crushed the earth in one hand, interacts with the universe on an entirely different time scale, has warped and dissected the reality of the Source Wall, and ultimately was only defeated by the Anti-Life Equation.
I see the basic battles to go something like this; Thanos' troops, all ordered and ready to attack, are suddenly struck by piercing, uncompromising terror as Desaad's fear machines do their work. What was once a well prepared, orderly, intelligent armada is now in uttery disarray, unable to do effectively do much of anything. Darkseid's own ships, his Parademons, and his Brimestone Corps have easy pickings here.
If it DOES come down to clones, even if you believe them to be an issue (and, again, I can't stress how big of a mistake I think this would be on Thanos' part, one that Thanos himself readily ADMITS is a mistake to the point that he destroys all of his clones), the Brimestone Corps and Promethean Giant would take care of that en masse.
Short story, Darkseid has every advantage here. More experienced in war, greater victories, greater technology, more powerful elite, more intelligent strategies, more intelligent war craftsmen, an established resource base, and a more powerful slave in the Promethean Giant.
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Dec 30th, 2007 11:15 PM
