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S03E08 - Villains
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Shadow_King
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
It might just be me, but didn't Arthur 'die' before season 1 started? Or did I miss something?


ya he did die before season 1. i think.

Old Post Nov 11th, 2008 06:22 PM
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Mairuzu
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
It might just be me, but didn't Arthur 'die' before season 1 started? Or did I miss something?
Did you not see this episode?


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Old Post Nov 11th, 2008 06:28 PM
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Blue_Hefner
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mairuzu
Did you not see this episode?


sad

IDK, this episode made it seem like he died after Peter and Mohinder first met. Maybe I need to watch it again. embarrasment

Old Post Nov 11th, 2008 06:35 PM
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Mairuzu
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
sad

IDK, this episode made it seem like he died after Peter and Mohinder first met. Maybe I need to watch it again. embarrasment
Died after Nathan got in an accident, which was before the first season


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Old Post Nov 11th, 2008 06:43 PM
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Superherovandal
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Captain REX
Good episode, I thought. They meshed it well with previous episodes.

[SPOILER - highlight to read]: New powers shown! Metal man and mind bullets!

And I wonder if Arthur has the Haitian's ability or if he used the Haitian to erase Angela's memories. Either way, somehow he got a hold of telepathy. I have to wonder if Angela knew his power was to steal other powers, rather than telepathy.
I don't think he can take the haitian's powers as the haitian would negate his powers.


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Old Post Nov 11th, 2008 06:52 PM
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Gideon
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quote:
Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
Talking about Hiro....hes a total IDIOT!


[rant]A character trait not limited to just Hiro. Peter, for example, has an even greater and more evolved form of stupidity; I think he's a joke. Which is why Noah, Sylar, Linderman, and the select others are my favorite. Peter and Suresh? They belong in the Idiots' Hall of Fame. You needn't be a genius or a mastermind on this show to simply avoid making repeatedly stupid decisions without consideration of their consequence. Even the so-called badass Future Peter manages to **** everything up by coming into the past; Mommy flat out tells him he's a moron and he needs to get his ass back. But he waits. And waits. And waits. Peter's only virtue is his good intentions and power. But if this ever becomes a hero team, he does not need to be in charge. When someone with a modicum of intelligence gives Peter a command, he should be forced to do it. No free thinking for Peter.

And, yes, Hiro's going fast down that route.[/rant]

Anyways, this episode reminded me why I love Heroes. It has such a complex and dynamic story of manipulation. In season one, we regarded Noah, Sylar, and Linderman (and Nathan and Thompson to a lesser extent) as the pinnacle of manipulation. In season two, Noah and Sylar reprised their roles as masterminds with the addition of Adam, Angela, and Bob. In season three, we have Maury (though he was merely executing Arthur's agenda), Adam, Sylar, Angela, Linderman (in this episode), and Arthur.

For this particular episode, it seemed like Arthur was the dominant one, with Linderman even somewhat subordinate to him. Arthur would even threaten Linderman ("you may have outlived your usefulness"). Angela also seems very subordinate, what I call the Abused Southern Wife, until she becomes aware of Arthur's attempted murder of Nathan. She than conscripts the Hatian (every hero's worst nightmare) to betray and nearly kill Arthur -- though this could be considered a manipulation and betrayal on Linderman's part, since he was the one who "healed" Angela. And then we have Noah manipulating Elle into furthering Sylar's psychopathy at the expense of a human life.

It's a vastly tangled web and it seems that, at one point or another, everyone has manipulated one another. There is no dominant puppeteer; just certain characters more prone to utilize it. Makes for great discussion and hypothesis.

Old Post Nov 11th, 2008 11:51 PM
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REXXXX
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I agree with that analysis. It's always enjoyable when someone it's obviously in control.


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Old Post Nov 12th, 2008 02:38 AM
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Quincy
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Lame episode. Shits on established continuity.


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Old Post Nov 12th, 2008 03:19 AM
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REXXXX
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I don't understand how it shits on continuity?


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Old Post Nov 12th, 2008 04:20 AM
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Quincy
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well that was a little harsh, but I mean I really just dont like the way they changed established stories. I think it's really strange that The Company was just "oh lets just let him do this and that" about Sylar, and then become so Adamant that "OH MY GOD WE MUST CATCH HIM NOW!"

I mean, he was the big guy they HAD to catch. It's just weird that with Sylar, they "observed" him, but they just snag all these other supers immediately. Especially HRG's hand in it. Plus those scenes were just hideously boring. I just think that Elle and Sylar would have had a bit more recollection about meeting each other.

Plus, we were supposed to find out what drove Arthur to become a bad guy, but that's not what I saw. It just showed how he disappeared.

Meredith and the Company? The same people who stole her child? Blargh.

This episode just didn't do it for me.


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Old Post Nov 12th, 2008 04:31 AM
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Magee
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Quincy
well that was a little harsh, but I mean I really just dont like the way they changed established stories. I think it's really strange that The Company was just "oh lets just let him do this and that" about Sylar, and then become so Adamant that "OH MY GOD WE MUST CATCH HIM NOW!"
Well he had only killed one person, he was not "Sylar" at that point and I think he / they wanted to see why / how he done it. I can't remember season 1 that well but I think he had killed a few people and it was more Noah who was desperatley after him because he was after Claire.

Old Post Nov 12th, 2008 09:32 AM
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Mairuzu
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thought it was a great episode, hopefully it'll continue to please me!


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Old Post Nov 12th, 2008 05:09 PM
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S_D_J
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I liked the episode, it was fun... in a way, plus is good to have both Linderman and Thompson show up one more time

though I did find Sylar/Elle bits boring ( I even fast forward them smile )
an really ridiculous, why create him?, and then complain about every single thing he did. that sounds very "Hiro" of them... plus somehow I felt it contradicted the dynamic between Noah, and Gabriel... (futhermore than what was already done this season)

I liked how Angela used the Haitian to catch Arthur


... so, did anyone else know Arthur's real power, or did he always pretend it was Telepathy?


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Old Post Nov 12th, 2008 06:06 PM
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Mairuzu
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Adam knew


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Old Post Nov 12th, 2008 06:19 PM
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Blue_Hefner
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by S_D_J

though I did find Sylar/Elle bits boring ( I even fast forward them smile )
an really ridiculous, why create him??



IDK, maybe the Company thought he was the bomb. embarrasment

Old Post Nov 12th, 2008 07:49 PM
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Gideon
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SDJ, what did you mean by the dynamic between Sylar and Noah?

Old Post Nov 12th, 2008 08:14 PM
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S_D_J
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Gideon
SDJ, what did you mean by the dynamic between Sylar and Noah?


All of the sudden we have HRG being the one who created "Sylar"? why?
was that necessary?
As things are going this season, we already have a Noah who sits comfortably next to Sylar after what he'd done to Claire, sure he tried to kill him and such, but it was too little, too late: I was going along with that just fine

... and now comes this episode telling us he turned Gabriel Gray in to Sylar, but has never show any remorse or a hint that he's to blame for it in the entire show, up until this point?

Sure he was mister bad guy, and needed to be stop, but why show that Bennet had anything to do with it? it's NOT that it makes no sense, it just shows how sloppy this season writing has been so far.

And all he does is sit there, instead of going after him, he already had taped him killing, and knows how he takes the power, so why not just go after him?... sure it wasn't their assignment, but it makes him look like he's got no common sense. Sure HRG was at first thought of a baddie, but he's been known to be an intelligent person, who sometimes let his love for his family cloud his judgement, but still intelligent.

Thompson filled the profile of what Noah was forced to be in this episode, Why not use Thompson then?, had him be Elle's partner?, that would have make a lot more sense, and would sit fine with established continuity... they could have scrapped Meredith out of this episode, since all her involvement did was to show that Flint is Mer's idiot brother... or had Bennet been assigned to Meredith... sure he knew Meredith was Claire's mother, and such, but the reason Thompson let her go could still apply here, plus they make a good team already, so it would make sense for them to be acquainted...

It was not necessary to have Noah being the one to blame for Sylar, and I doubted someone could say it was.... it just wasn't. There was no hint of it whatsoever in the entire series, it was all made in one episode, just this episode, all of the sudden.
Furthermore it doesn't make sense that the Company had no interest in catching Sylar.... It's was very clear that the company knew Sylar had already killed, why not just bagged and tagged him the moment he killed again? The Company's been known to lock away innocent people just because their powers are dangerous ("black hole" Caulfield was directly sent to Level 5) ... but they have no interest in Sylar, other than had him kill again? What the f**k?

I have no problem with Sylar and Elle (even that was a lame attempt to have their future relationship make sense, when there was no relationship whatsoever in the past), even though their dialogue was boring, I still think they make a good couple....I can go along with that... but Noah pleasantly watching Sylar kill was awkward and totally uncalled for....


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Last edited by S_D_J on Nov 13th, 2008 at 04:52 AM

Old Post Nov 13th, 2008 04:43 AM
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Mairuzu
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wow


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Old Post Nov 13th, 2008 04:29 PM
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Entity
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Completely agree on the Noah thing!

It really didn't sit right with me at all. I mean I'd never really considered Noah a "good" guy per-say but had come to like him quite a bit as his seemingly average yet not so average at all joe character he was. He was in a shade of grey but a shade I liked and understood and even to a point, thou not always, agreed with.

They really just violated another one of they're best characters for no reason other than shock value AGAIN! It's becoming exceptionally annoying. I mean the whole Noah/Sylar relationship has never, not even once, even began to hint towards this. And Noah's been insane about keeping him form Claire and now we find that he actually gave him this huge push down the road to psychosis?

When has Noah ever once seemed the least be guilt ridden about Claire's danger being his own fault? Sure he seems extremely concerned about it allot of the time but never like its because he wanted Sylar to kill to begin with.

This whole show is just becoming such a joke now. It's like they're actually trying to shoot their self in the foot in new ways just to see how weird it will be and if it will hurt a new way.

I don't even know if I'm gonna watch anymore really. Well, okay yea I probably will try to but now I'm actually having to talk myself into still giving them the chance for redemption. Use to be I couldn't wait now it's more like I just don't care and can't wait for the end of villains just to see if things get fixed and it goes back to anything even close to what it was. erm


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Old Post Nov 13th, 2008 04:33 PM
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Ushgarak
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What was Arthur Petrelli's interest in destroying New York? It doesn't add up with what Angela and Lindeman were doing in S1.


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Old Post Nov 18th, 2008 12:56 PM
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