Kind of useless to lead 150 Elves to their death just to save them for later... and I don't think they foresaw the Uruks employing pyrotechnics.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
they were there to strike them when they arrived on the wall. they were also a volley force to attack behind cover
__________________ This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.
Which is what they didn't do. If you had a quiver of arrows and a bow to fire them, wouldn't you want to kill as many of the enemy at a distance before you risk being hacked to pieces? Aragorn gave a dumb command there. Kill as many Uruk as possible with arrows, then move in and kill as many more with swords. It's a very simple concept.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
actually it isnt if every battle was played out that way ,battle would be one big game and the archers are good but in that situation friendly fire would be common if they stayed back ,plus he had hardly any swordsman still standing
If he hadnt, they wouldve had time to get into formation , and simplely trample them into the ground if you remember there were 10s of thousands left they filled the entire valley aragorn and smoe archers wouldnt have been able to hold out for more than a few minutes and whats evenmore proof , is that in the books there were no elves legolas said he wished it so the movies made it come true
__________________ This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.
More dead bad guys=fewer left to fight in melee. The fewer enemies left to fight, the longer one can survive to kill more enemies. As you pointed out, almost 10,000 Uruks. The less Uruks there are, the better. Get it?
The Elves were already in formation. They were standing back there, bows out, arrows ready. All it took was Aragorn's word, and they fired in to a crowd that contained nothing but Uruks (and Gimli face down in the mud). Every Uruk who had rushed in dropped to the ground with an arrow stuck in them. That is smart. No Elves were killed, and they were able to take down a score of Uruks. But instead of getting these master archers to fire again, thus killing more Uruks, Aragorn led a suicidal charge that led to the death of every single Lorian Elf. If Aragorn had just ordered them to fire off all their arrows and THEN charge after they were depleted, more Uruks would have been killed in the initial battle.
Seriously, what do you not understand about this horrendously simple concept?
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
rofl this is funny i keep on thinking why its hard for you ro see mine its hard for me to see yours both ways worked in ways were both right it varies from ppls perspective
back to middle earth VS USA seeing that the US military consists of more than 400,000all armend with auto weapons and heavy weapons
__________________ This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.
I'm legitimately confused as to how you think yours works.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
same here ,im just saying that there werent any eles at helm deep ,and that the movie made him do that because its what ppl want to see (they dont expect anyone to have any expierience in strategy wheather from games or real life )
in the book he did that because he didnt have a couple hundred elves with him just yeomen that werent that fast for an archer and probably would be more useful gaurding the gap
__________________ This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.
False. There clearly were elves at helm's deep. Aragorn used them poorly. The movie illustrates this well.
If your contention is that there were no elves present in the Book (which I doubt, but could be the case) then you still have to admit that movie Aragorn used the elves poorly. And the point remains that more volleys > fewer volleys. So he would have wasted human archers too.
There were no elves at Helms Deep, and Eomer was fighting there to, Gimli wasnt tossed, or anything. Gimli jsut came out of the shadows "Khazad! Khazad ai menu! And there was a form coming form the rocks and a flash of steel, and the orcs fell to the ground dead." Gimli stayed back, no elves, and Erkenbrand of the Westfold came to the rescue with Gandalf, not Eomer.
__________________ Anar
Nanye i ne Anduril i macil Elendilo
Lercuvanten i moli Mordoreo
Isil
Turgon aran Gondolin tortha gar a matha, i vegil Glamdring gud dae lo, dam an Glamhoth.
main point is that there wer no elves and the movie wasnt strategic the archers couldve simply took out priority targets and cut their losses by a large percentage
__________________ This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.
I haven't been arguing that there were Elves present at Helm's Deep in the novel---where and why you brought that up is beyond even my superhuman comprehension. Movie-Aragorn did a piss-poor job using the full potential of a brigade of Elven archers. No. Question. About it... seņor.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
i agree but its just the usually movie cappy strategy
__________________ This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.
Guys, Aragorn was a pretty good tactician, and would know how to use elves in combat. There were no elves. There were no suicidal charges. There was no Haldir. There is no life. There is no death. There is the Force.
__________________ Anar
Nanye i ne Anduril i macil Elendilo
Lercuvanten i moli Mordoreo
Isil
Turgon aran Gondolin tortha gar a matha, i vegil Glamdring gud dae lo, dam an Glamhoth.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
umm you messed it up a little...well alot theres more mumble jumble to it
__________________ This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.
The movies aren't supposed to be an in depth analysis about the tactical maneuvers neccessary to defend a fort from 10000 dudes through the use of badass elven archers that pwn everybody.
Back on topic, I will repeat the same thing again: the middle earth dudes that are NOT supernatural get pwned. The problems are Morgoth and the other uber godlike beings.
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
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Aug 19th, 2009 12:20 AM
