Yeah, Gandalf didn't "die" in the sense that his spirit was cast in to the void. I was referring to the lack of ability of the Valar to resurrect his spirit from death and send him back, like was done to Glorfindel.
I've never heard that Eru took away their lifespan, source? And it wasn't Morgoth who corrupted them, it was Sauron. His 50 years he spent charming and "advising" Ar-Pharazon ended in moral corruption, human sacrifices, temples to Melkor, and of course the failed invasion.
Orthanc. Made of near-impervious stone that was barely scratched by Ents hucking boulders at them. I've always wondered why the Arnorians/Gondorians decided to build a lone tower of that stuff and not their cities' walls. Again, dumb plot hole.
Damn, I keep forgetting all the dialogue and sun-stories that happened at Minas Tirith. Oh and by the by, I'm not saying that Gandalf would ever have an easy time of facing the With-King, just that him beating the WK is feasible and doable, and not unreasonable.
What's with the talk of Numenorian cannons? I don't recall them having that at all.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Maiar that die don't go to the void automatically. They would have to be thrown into the void by force. Morgoth was thrown there by the Valar. There are no more evil Maiar so even if Gandalf dies he will not be sent to the Void. Evil Maiar like the Balrog that fought Gandalf would be thrown into the void quickly. That's my guess.
Actually, it was Eru. He gave them a gift for aiding somebody in war (forgot who). The gift was increased life spam, and other stuff.
And yes, you are right, it was Sauron who corrupted them into worshiping Morgoth.
It was for the leader of the Istari.
I am going to try to find the other quote where Gandalf says that he is unsure if he can beat the WK. And again, you have a point there.
Again, I am not sure. I do know they were ages ahead of anyone in Middle-Earth when it came to technology. I am going to find out exactly how much
Yeah, I know, I was saying that it was beyond the Valar's power to send Gandalf back to Middle-Earth in a new body, and that Eru had to do so personally.
I know that Eru gave them their lifespan and island. What I've never heard before is that he took their lifespan away. He must not have, considering that even 3,000 years later, the diluted and depleted stock of the Dunedain was still living for about 200 years. Not to mention that would make Eru the biggest jackass ever, taking away the lifespan of the loyalists.
Yeah, Gondor gave Saruman the keys to it circa 1,000 TA, but it was built during the late Second Age by the Numenorians after the loyalists founded the Kingdoms. It's weird why the didn't build more structures with that stone.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Yeah over time. I'm thinking it was due to their gradual "fall from grace." Successive wars against Easterlings and Southrons, Orcs, etc. The division of Arnor and its war against Angmar. The plague. Not to mention the Numenorian descendants would have been breeding with the native Men, like the Eorl strain, for example... diluting their genetic stock. And on top of that their past was shadowed by Isildur's succumbing to temptation. In Tolkien's world, that would hurt.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Firstly, the Witch King is not entirely indestructible. He was after all, wounded by a hobbit, and destroyed by a mortal woman with a sword.
Secondly, one has to consider the Rings of Power and how they come into play here. It was revealed at the end of the trilogy that Gandalf was wearing the Red Ring....and certainly was at the time he faced the Witch King. The Red Ring was one of the Three which were far superior to the Nine (one of which W.K. was wearing), at least as long as Sauron didn't have the One.
Galadriel for instance, told Frodo she was able to hold off Sauron himself from invading Lothlorien, by using the White Ring.
When the Witch King first faced Gandalf after breaking into Minas Tirith, he threw Gandalf off his horse and broke his staff. So, he obviously had the momentary upper hand, either by surprise or chance.
HOWEVER, after he ran off when the cavalry arrived..... Gandalf clearly intended to go face him again, and would have, had he not been called off to save Faramir at the tombs. As he told Pippin, "If I go with you to help, others will die", etc.
That can only mean despite having his staff destroyed, Gandalf had other weapons at his disposal to face the Witch King and was reasonably sure he could still stop him. That would have to have been the Red Ring. Whatever he could have done with it to battle the Witch King, we will never know because of the way the story panned out.
He has spells of invulnerability (or was it immortality?) cast upon him. These spells were undone by Merry's sword which he recived from the Barrows which were at one time used by Arnorians against Angmar. So unless Gandalf can contend with Sauron he will have a hard tiem actually killing the Witch King although he could destroy his form.
None of the three used their rings for such overt purposes. They were trying to hide their rings from Sauron not flash them in his face.
Didn't happen.
Last edited by ares834 on Sep 9th, 2011 at 04:59 AM
It has been over a month since i last saw rotk but if i do remember correctly, the witch king cant be harmed by the souls of men, therefore before gandalf can harm the witch king, he must first go under the painful mideival version of transphobic transformation. good luck with that.
Dont know for certain but u have to remember the witch king is, by e ssence mortal and Gandalf is a maia. I dont know if the istari arrive in ME with their staffs or make them later themselves, actually ive thought of another thread, but to answer your question Gandalfs staff may be used as a way to channel his power and not have any power in itself so it could be broken like any other weapon. If anyone knows where the istari staffs came from pls let me know.
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Aug 29th, 2009 04:02 AM
