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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: TV Series » Episode 34 - The Mandalore Plot


Episode 34 - The Mandalore Plot
Started by: Ordo

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Hybris
Jedi Panda

Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:
I feel we have to accept that ideas coming straight from GL have a certain increased credibility.


+1


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Old Post Jan 28th, 2010 04:55 PM
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S_D_J
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ordo
You've never seen the movies? Played KOTOR?


Besides Jango (and by extension Boba and the clones) there's no more indication of Mandolarians in the movies, not even mention by name.

They both are presented as Bounty Hunters

I played KOTOR but that's 1000 years before the movies... a lot can change in that time. no to mention that is a pre-Clone Wars EU game.



That said, I don't really have a problem with the black lightsaber... it's sucky, but given how it's said to be an Old Republic weapon, I can see it slip by.

Ahsoka Tano makes a strong case against TCW canonicity anyways erm


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Old Post Jan 28th, 2010 05:44 PM
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Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Let's not get dragged into an Clone Wars canon debate, as that is a nightmare. Just in this particular instance, I feel we have to accept that ideas coming straight from GL have a certain increased credibility.


Even George Lucas can not overcome 30 years of history. Most of the movies arent that old.

If there is a debate, there is a debate. You can't arbitaritly decide in this instance, there is no debate. I know why you are, but its a logical fallacy. Espeically since Lucas neither directed nor wrote this episode, just like he didn't any other. His creative imput is vague.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by S_D_J
I played KOTOR but that's 1000 years before the movies... a lot can change in that time. no to mention that is a pre-Clone Wars EU game


Totally. The problem is not Kotor. The problem is 1. established continuity and 2. established continuity in this era.

2. Seems to be fine. This is where the majority of Traviss' work seems to be. She is a side issue that as we have seen is generally unrelated.

1. Is the problem.

For the record, I like Ahsoka. Even though she has a guys name.


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Last edited by Ordo on Jan 28th, 2010 at 05:55 PM

Old Post Jan 28th, 2010 05:48 PM
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Ushgarak
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No, how long it has been there has nothing to do with it- just like Boba Fett. GL's word has that credibility regardless of how old any EU novel is. Age and establishment mean nothing compared to the 'word of God' in such an instance.

That is definitely how we will be treating things here, in any case. It's also the common sense viewpoint. We'll proceed on that basis.


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Last edited by Ushgarak on Jan 28th, 2010 at 06:31 PM

Old Post Jan 28th, 2010 06:07 PM
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REXXXX
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ordo
Even George Lucas can not overcome 30 years of history. Most of the movies arent that old.[


Sure he can! Simple as that, whether any of us like it or not...

And I like Ahsoka too. She had moments of being kind of annoying in the first season, but I have had no complaints about her at all this time around.


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Old Post Jan 28th, 2010 06:25 PM
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Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
That is definitely how we will be treating things here, in any case. It's also the common sense viewpoint. We'll proceed on that basis.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Let's not get dragged into an Clone Wars canon debate, as that is a nightmare.


<><><>

quote: (post)
Originally posted by REXXXX
And I like Ahsoka too. She had moments of being kind of annoying in the first season, but I have had no complaints about her at all this time around.


I like that they are actually addressing what its like to be a Padawan. Frankly, I think she has to be a bit annoying. If shes not she never grows up. I think they've skirted the line of tolerability well.


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Old Post Jan 28th, 2010 10:11 PM
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Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

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Sorry, lost my edit window.

Another part of this that really ticks me off is the whole coverup that they are indeed going against what has been established for the past 30 years. They cant even print the name of Hard Contact right....their own karking book. On top of it, there is junk like this from the press release:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Filoni
"Originally introduced as concept art that ultimately became the basis for bounty hunter Boba Fett, the Mandalorians have been favorites within the Star Wars fan community for years, even though much remains to be discovered about their culture, their history, or their in-universe origins. With only glimpses into the true nature of these mysterious warriors, they have long been the subject of rampant fan speculation and discourse. And now they are making their Clone Wars debut."


quote: (post)
Originally posted by Filoni
If you go way back to the original concepts, the Mandalorians were a group of supercommando troops; it’s only now that George is really bringing that to the screen. They’re in the series because he wanted to define their culture, to explore the foundations of this warrior faction.


Culture, etc HAVE been defined, for decades with products that YOU have sold. There has been little fan speculation because Mandalorians have become one of the most defined cultures and factions within the Star Wars universe. At least according to Wookiepedia, they have appeared in at lest 53 comics, books, vidoe games, and been referenced in more.

On top of that, if Mandalorians are all supposed to be warriors and supercommandos, why are the majority now pacifists. They spend all the time promoting boot stomps, guns, and jetpacks, but the majority are cube-dwelling dar'manda.

The Star Wars Insider was riddled with other convientently ignorant statements like this. It also included a blurb about how Karen Traviss defined the culture saying "Karen Traviss provided an in-depth study of Mandalorian culture and language." This whole plot is such a debocale they cant even keep their own press releases straight.

I dont get why they just cant say what they are doing? Whay cant they just say "I know we've portrayed Mandalorians one way for 30 years, but we think its time to give a fresh interpretation." Its the fact that they refuse to mention that stuff already exists in this territory. They're acting like what they're doing is a novel thing...and something that is not in direct conflict with the past 30 years of the franchise.


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Old Post Jan 28th, 2010 10:33 PM
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Ushgarak
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Of course there has been lots of fan speculation. There is not the slightest point in denying that; the evidence is everywhere.

And he says that HE wanted (i.e. GL) to define their culture. Anyone else's definition is irrelevant to that; George wanted to do it himself.

Honestly, you are just repeating yourself. As ever- get used to the fact that the EU gets overwritten regularly.


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Last edited by Ushgarak on Jan 29th, 2010 at 04:28 PM

Old Post Jan 29th, 2010 01:43 PM
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Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

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Location: Kamino Boot Camp


 

What defines fan speculation? Publication with the Star Wars name?

The EU has never been overwritten to this extent, I'm not a big EU fan, so I may not know. Can you provide antoher example where somethign so establshed was changed?

Even if you could, you can always consider one source an outlier. You make up your own mind.


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Old Post Jan 29th, 2010 02:39 PM
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Ushgarak
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Of course it has; Boba Fett was a MUCH bigger overwrite than the Mandalorians, something few have heard of in comparison.

Splinter was utterly eradicated from continuity. 'Darth' applying to all Sith caused a desperate EU continuity re-write. Clonetroopers being on the Republic side messed up how the EU had interpreted 'Clone Wars'. Jabba the Hutt was a giant slug and not a standard biped, as the EU at the time had it. The list goes on. It's always been this way.

Meanwhile, plenty of EU books contradict each other also. It simply does not have that sort of firm continuity. That a pretty irrelevant minority have found some ideas about Mandalorians apparently cool changes nothing- and let's not forget, GL CREATED them. He's not taking someone else's idea and mashing it up. He's devleoping what his own idea was; interpretation form other people as to what that idea was may well have been simply erroneous.

And I am not even going to bother to asnwer your 'what defines fan speculation' question. Ask something sensible in future.


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"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

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Last edited by Ushgarak on Jan 29th, 2010 at 04:30 PM

Old Post Jan 29th, 2010 04:21 PM
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Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

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I've consistently said the the EU contradicts and 1 time things get written over. Keldabe and the portrayal of mandalore are not one time things.

George is welcome to edit George's work. I think Boba was an excellent overwrite...and Han shooting second was not. However, that material is indisputably GL's, though I think it shows misjudgement. They are still one instance things.

And as to fan speculation, I think its obvious what it is, but you seem to disagree. I just asked for you to qualify...sorry.

Anyway, more press releases....and actually a positive one. Filoni has definately regained some of my respect. Full article can be found here.

<><><>

IGN TV: You've got a big event starting off this Friday. Can you talk a bit about bringing the Mandalorians into the fold?

Dave Filoni: If you're a Star Wars fan, you'll know what the Mandalorians are. If you are a casual fan, you'll just kinda think they look like a bunch of Boba Fetts. But it's a big deal to the fans who get into the lore. And it's something that's been much debated and written about in the Expanded Universe.

IGN: The Clone Wars's Mandalorians look very similar to Jango Fett, with the blue outfits. Did you debate a lot about their appearance? As you mentioned, the EU has done a lot of different interpretations.

Filoni: Mandalore is one of those cases where I really wanted a lot of input from George and was lucky that he was willing to give it. We had talked about making them white like the original supercommando Mandalorians were going to be in The Empire Strikes Back, but because of the clones we couldn't do that. It would be too confusing for the viewer. It was George who told us to make them silver, black and blue, much like Jango, so it kind of inferred that Jango's supercommando armor is pretty similar to the ones seen worn by the guys at almost the same time. We couldn't do the white paint scheme that was originally intended for them back in the 70's because of the clones.

IGN: Is it exciting for you, daunting, or maybe a mixture of both when you know you're going to introduce something that is definitely going to get a lot of people paying attention inside the fandom?

This is definitely what George Lucas thinks it should be, and I take all the appropriate information to him that's out there in the EU, and I say, "We should look at this, just so you're aware of it because we might contradict this if we do this." So we try to factor a lot of things in, but it can't restrict us from making the most complete vision of what he wanted possible. It's fun. Fans always react to everything we do differently. The Mandalorians are but one example of many, many different things that can be very micro or seem small to some people, but they're actually large.

IGN: Well, speaking of lightsaber blades, that's an excellent segue for me, because we have an exclusive clip running on IGN TV, featuring a very special lightsaber that is seen for the first time in Friday's episode.

Filoni: The Darksaber. That was a big deal. And again that was an idea that came straight from George. Originally what Pre Vizsla was carrying was something in the EU called a vibroblade; it's kind of an electric sword. George let me get away with it in the early phases of design and in the early shooting, but when the color came back and he was watching the lightsaber we want to have combating this vibroblade, he said there's no way that can happen; there's no way that a non-lightsaber could block a lightsaber. So he had us do away with the vibroblade in that episode really late in the game, and he created something called the Darksaber.

<><><>

Its good to know that Lucas is source for the pile of osik in this episode, from Keldabe, to Mandalore, to the di'kutla darksaber (which was supposed to be a vibrosword...hah!). I'm glad Filoni at least tried to stop him, and form the interview he really made clear that this was Lucas' vision...and not his lol. Nice back door out, but I still wish he would have put his foot down.

And if Lucas things that only a lightsaber can block another lightsaber...maybe he should revisit the Magna Guards in Revenge of the Sith...senile old idiot.

The only thing that makes me nervous in this is the armor. Is Lucas inferring that Jango is Death Watch?


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Last edited by Ordo on Jan 29th, 2010 at 07:37 PM

Old Post Jan 29th, 2010 07:33 PM
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REXXXX
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I believe the MagnaGuard staffs were designed specifically to fight the Jedi and cost insane amounts of money in-universe each. It'd be kinda boring if the Mandalorians had them too. I think George just doesn't want sword-on-saber fighting. And I agree; it's really annoying to watch your lightsaber clack against a spear or staff or something in KOTOR rather than sizzle straight through it. Anti-lightsaber metals = worst invention ever.

Even so, might've just been a slip in Filoni's relay of that info.

Also, I think they're not inferring that about Jango. Just giving the Mandalorians a familiar look.


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Old Post Jan 30th, 2010 01:37 AM
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Ordo
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I think vobrioswords are annoying too, but I'd rather have a vibrosword over a darksaber. And it least it keeps with the theme that electric things can block lightsabers (shields re TPM, staffs re ROTS).

The episode was exactly as I expected. There were a few bright points that were unexpected, but unfortunately they did little to coushin the impact of the blow.

My personal feelings aside, I didnt think the episode was anything but mediocre.


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Old Post Jan 30th, 2010 04:36 PM
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ares834
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Not a bad episode. THe fact is it dosn't seem to contradict much. The two biggest retcons seem to be that Mandalore is not a tropical planet and there were three diffrent factions for Mandalorians instead of two: The New, the true, and the Death Watch.


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Old Post Jan 30th, 2010 04:38 PM
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Ordo
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*facepalm* Its a bit mroe complex than that.

Besides..."True" weren't mentioned.


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Old Post Jan 30th, 2010 04:50 PM
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ares834
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ordo
*facepalm* Its a bit mroe complex than that.

No doubt it is. I have only Hard Contact though so I personnaly don't see what else it contradicted. Perhaps their simple nature... But one could easily say that is simply how the New Mandalorians lived and once they die of, which they will they return to their more simple lifestyle such as farming.
quote:
Besides..."True" weren't mentioned.

So. That dosn't mean they don't exist.


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Old Post Jan 30th, 2010 04:53 PM
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Ordo
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It doesnt mean they do either.


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Old Post Jan 30th, 2010 04:56 PM
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ares834
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But just because they didn't mention it dosn't mean they don't exist. Here is how I see it went. The Mandalorians became pacifist and exiled their warriors. However later on these exiles had another schisms becoming the True Mandalorians and the Death Watch. This is the Mandalorian Civil War. The fact is the episode does not contradict the existence of the True Mandalorians allowing them to still exist within the SW universe.


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Old Post Jan 30th, 2010 05:53 PM
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Ushgarak
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Grievous' bodyguards' weapons only blocked sabres because of the electro energy stuff there- that is energy blokcing energy.

What GL didn't like was a physical object blocking a sabre. Your 'senile old idiot' comment just makes you look an idiot yourself, once more.


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Old Post Jan 30th, 2010 05:58 PM
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AthenasTrgrFngr
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gl is an idiot though.


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