he never ditched her. He left to see if Jean was alive, and it was Madelyne who told him not to come back. When he did make the effort and came back, she was gone. He's the one that went cross country to try and find her, and that's not forgetting the very real possibility that Madelyne was still messing with his head.
Scott never physically cheated, and even if you want to argue that there's no difference, Jean cheated first.
He doesn't make a habit of cheating on women. Never has.
I've read X-Factor #1. There was quite a bit of time (enough to see his old buddies, see Jean, form a super team, get some equipment, track down and contain Rusty, and film a television commercial) before he got around to making an effort to come back. How long does it usually take to remember "Hey, I have a son. Maybe I should call and see how junior is doing."? He might have made things more right (not totally right) by rescuing Nathan and raising him with Jean in the parrallel future, but he still ditched his wife and kid as soon as he heard Jean was alive. Ditched. The last panel of the comic tells the whole story. Look at it and tell me what you see happening.
Seriously? You REALLY don't count all those "therapy" sessions with Emma as cheating? To each his own I guess, But I would sure count it as cheating if my wife was telepathically banging someone. This is more than just imagining yourself sleeping with someone. This is sharing your innermost thoughts , fears, feelings and emotions with someone else. That to me is much more intimate than anything in the physical realm.
As for Jean:
A. She was attracted to Wolverine, never slept with him, never telepathically slept with him. She wanted to, but never did (but she did try didn't she?). Scott wanted to AND did. Point Jean. You KNOW Superman has had thoughts about Power Girl. Those thoughts are well placed. She's a knockout. He has always stayed true to Lois though, even with Power Girl shaking her "points of interest" in his face. Do you consider Superman to be a cheater since he has had a stray thought cross his mind?
B. I agree she is also a dirtbag for not talking to Scott about her side of their marital problems, but two wrongs don't make a right. It's not like Scott was "getting even" with Jean by telepathically sticking it to Emma, he didn't know about her feelings for Wolverine, he just knew they were having problems and Emma was being a lot softer to him than Jean was during that time. For that matter Wolverine and Emma were the most guilty of the four. Especially Emma. Hussy.
C. This has nothing to do with Jean. She's not the one kissing Storm (unfortunately). Our discussion was about if and how Scott honked Madelyne and Nathan.
Okay, count with me now. He cheated on Madelyne with Jean. He cheated on Jean with Emma and he is now seemingly cheating on Emma with Storm. How many times does it take to make something a habit?
Here's the thing; I know why Scott is such a dirtbag. He's a dirtbag because Marvel needs to make money and when two characters are happy and content with one-another for too long it gets boring and no one wants to pay money to read about them. The way to fix this is to either kill one of the two (Jean mostly) or have one be a dirty dirty cheater (Scott). I'm here poking fun at Cyclops because it makes the thin-skinned Cyclops fans grumpy and because the way Marvel writes Scott offends my morals as a father and husband. Just once I would like to see Scott get screwed over instead of having to be the dick. Emma would have been the perfect character to shatter his heart. I might even feel sorry for him for once. However, Marvel seemingly decides to have him tramp around yet again, this time with a married woman. They try so hard to portray Scott as a charismic leader that cares for his teammates and faces any challenge without backing down, then they go and write him to be the exact opposite when it comes to the people that care about him. Maybe we're looking at the wrong couple that Marvel is targeting. Maybe they're aiming to break-up Storm and Black-Panther so Storm can join the X-men again, or maybe they're targeting BOTH couples to completely restructure the emotional make-up of the X-Men. Either way, Scott still turns out to be the dick. I don't feel too sorry for the one he's screwing over this time though.
Truth #1:
UncannyXmen.net's issue synopsis describes at least seventeen days between the time when Scott walked out on Madelyne "without explanation" and the time when she sees the X-Factor commercial in the last panel. At least seventeen. Seventeen. At least. THAT is "ditching".
Or are you going to call the staff at UncannXmen.net liars as well? Read the issue yourself, because I don't think you remember it all that well.
Truth #2:
Jean never slept with Wolverine either physically or telepathically. Show me the comic and I'll retract the statment.
Truth #3:
Scott didn't know about Jean's feelings for Logan until after he started his telepathic affair with Emma. You said so yourself in this very thread.
Truth #4:
Emma and Logan ARE both dirtbags. Emma should have never advanced on Scott until he and Jean had broken up, and Wolverine has wanted Jean for himself since forever ago.
Truth #5:
Scott had a relationship with Jean while still married to Madalyne. He had a telepathic affair with Emma while still in a relationship with Jean. There is clearly something happening between him and Storm on that cover, and he is currently in a relationship with Emma. That's three times. That's a habit.
So what part of most of that isn't even true? Like, factually?
Time to take off the ruby-colored glasses and face facts.
I know she's his cousin. I know it's creepy. Don't talk to me like I'm stupid.
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I said Superman has had thoughts about his COUSIN. Picture one proves me right. She is hanging all over him, and he is definitely noticing.
Here is a bigger pic in case you can't read the dialogue:http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UqnZ82lmN...PG%2Bflirts.jpg
He does look pretty suprised and then grossed out in picture two though, but SHE doesn't. I don't think Superman did an adequate job of convincing her not to try that again.
If you're grossed out, take it up with the writers, not me.
You're getting emotional, when this isn't personal.
1. Ditching in your opinion.
2. There's more ways to cheat than having sex.
3. Then I was wrong; her unwillingness to completely reject Logan had to have played on his mind for a long time, imo.
4. Dirtbags is a bit harsh, imo. And I'm no Wolverine fan.
5. A cover isn't shit. Seriously. Until it happens in a comic, it really doesn't count. Scott only entered in to a relationship with Jean once Maddie was out of the picture. He only became "involved" with Emma when his marriage was on the rocks. Was it necessarily right? No; but it's certainly understandable imo. He's only human.
I wasn't talking to you like you're stupid.
Pre-crisis scans don't count, nor do ones where either of them are mind-controlled. There's never been any real attraction between Superman and Power Girl.
Jean had rough psychic sex with Mastermind at the very least as it was explicitly stated and shownon panel. Getting involved with him physically was hinted as well but was never explicitly shown.
Scott regardless of the title pages isn't gonna start a relationship with Ororo.
If he tries it will be short lived and perfectly natural. She's hot.
But I believe those shots were the representation of Storm joining Scott's political cadre. She also joined the Avengers which is controversial in light of recent activities. This is good for Storm for she is a powerful individual and leader and she can sway any situation.
Verb
1. Forsake; "ditch a lover".
2. Throw away.
3. Sever all ties with, usually unceremoniously or irresponsibly.
Yeah, "ditch" sounds about right to me.
2. I agree. I consider "cheating" to mean anything you do with another person that you can't tell your spouse about. Scott was the first of the two to involve someone else in his cheating. I don't count the Mastermind thing either. Being directly mind-controlled by a pervert with insecurity issues doesn't count.
3. Excuses are only that. Two wrongs still don't and never will make a right.
4."Homewreckers" then. "Dirtbag" still applies to Scott though.
5. I agree. More information in needed before full judgment can be passed here. That's why I have included the word "seemingly" in reference to the Storm/Cyclops relationship thus far. As far as Madelyne/Jean goes, Scott cheated on Madelyne with Jean the minute he hid the fact that Jean was alive and he was going to see her. You said it yourself, " There's more ways to cheat than having sex." Madelyne never did anything to Scott to warrent that.
I concede that you're right about Superman and Power Girl having no attraction to one another. At least not post-crisis. I remembered his reaction to the licking in the second scan to be far less disgusted than it was when I initially wrote the Superman/Power Girl thing. I should have rechecked that.
Superman would be about the only one in the DCU that hasn't taken any notice of her though. Black Canary mentions Power Girl as having the top bosom of DCU, comparing her assets with a "national treasure" and even "mister always serious" Batman has noticed or made reference to them a few times, so she gets it from both sides of the gender line. DC also isn't afraid to take Power Girl and her relationships in to the realm of creepyness. Conner used to make comments on how hot he thought she was (though he may not have known she was his sort-of cousin at the time), and she has even kissed Supergirl. Does it count as incest if it's another universe's counter-part of yourself?
I think Power Girl is just the victim of several sexually frustrated comic authors who use her to flesh out their fantasies in the comics. Comic artists too. have you ever noticed the Power Girl's breasts are in the exact center of almost every comic panel she's in? I'm not complaining at all, FAR from it. I'm just making an observation.
I hope you're right about Scott and Ororo. I think they would ba a bad couple. Then again, I've never really liked her with anybody other than Forge, so I won't mind in she leaves T'Challa and focuses on her hero career again.
So what came of this. I don't keep up with comics enough to know that much but isn't that Retro Storm? I wonder if that has some sort of significance...?
__________________ Still looking for that sig....
In the mean time, I never DID see that anime where I unintentionally got my name from. Is it any good
2. Our definitions are different then. Jean kissed Logan before Scott touched Emma, psychically or physically.
3. No, they don't, but I think you're being a bit extreme with how much blame you're throwing at Cyclops.
4. She fell in love with him. Sure, it's not technically "right", but she didn't do it out of malice. I still don't see how you can call him a dirtbag, tbh.
5. I don't agree at all, tbh. Sometimes keeping a secret from your partner is warranted so as to avoid unneccessary worry. At least imo.
What's the relevance of the Power Girl stuff? I'm genuinely asking, as I don't recall where we were going with that.
1. Okay, clearly we're not reading the same issue of X-Factor #1. Tell you what, I'll tell you what I see and you tell what you see.
Okay, here we go...
Scott was feeling all sad because he was missing Jean. This was a strain on his and Madalyne's relationship because she (much like Emma later on) was getting tired of constantly being compared to a dead person. She also states that it hurts knowing he married her just because she looks like Jean. Maddie even asked Scott if he was thinking about Jean while out on the balcony. To which he replied "Yes.", so she went back inside without another word. (I'm going to guess here Scott slept on the sofa. My wife would have made me after some drama like that.) Next morning, Scott apologizes to Maddie and says they'll work it out. This statment is proven to be incorrect, because shortly after he gets the "Jean is alive" call from Warren, screams "SHE'S WHAT!?!" and says he's on his way. Scott then starts to leave and tells Madelyne he needs to see Warren REAL BAD. Maddie asks Scott to tell Warren he can't make it because his familt needs him too. Scott's all "I HAVE to..." and leaves without telling Maddie what's really going on. She tells him if he goes not to bother coming back and then cries into her towel. When he gets to NEW York and sees Jean, he also hides the fact that he's married from her. Then he starts a super team. As the issue ends, Scott still hasn't attempted to contact his family after (as previously stated by me) at least SEVENTEEN days.
Now, you tell me how in the world that's not "Sever all ties with, usually unceremoniously or irresponsibly."
Your turn.
Tell what you're seeing that I'm not. I know you think I've got it wrong, so tell me what's right.
2. Hmmm. I thought Scott and Emma started their affair first, but I'll trust you on this. You do know your Cyclops lore.
3. Scotts a dirtbag for how he blew off his baby most, and then how he treated Maddie and Jean. In the later four-way marrage meltdown, blame goes from most to least: Emma, Logan, Scott, Jean. They all get some blame, even Jean. He's third out of four, could be worse. He could be...
4. EMMA seduced him while she was in a position of trust as his "therapist". He came to her because he needed help fixing his relationship with Jean. She fixed it all right. Logan has been a womanizer all his life, I remember when he was nailing Yukio while his heart supposedly belonged ONLY to Mariko. Don't even get me started on him...
5. Not when that secret involves you and another person. He's not telling her that her butt doesn't look big in those shorts to spare her feelings, he was hiding the fact that he was going to see the woman he was still in love with, just as he hid the fact he was married from Jean at first. That's more than just "a little white lie".
-----
The Powergirl stuff? Okay, bear with me here because this my point was totally lost beacuse of the whole "incest" thing.
I thought you were referring to Jean's mental attraction to Logan because I didn't think they had kissed until after Scott and Emma started their psychic affair, so wanted to make the point that feeling attraction to another was common and didn't count a cheating unless you acted on those thoughts.
I wanted to use Superman because:
A. We both respect the hell out of him.
B. He's about as close to you're ever going to get to a completely pure, incorruptible heart.
I used Power Girl in my example because she is considered by many (me included) to be a stone cold fox (even Batman has a tough time not looking at her breasts), so a guy would have to be dead, gay, or both not to at least entertain thoughts if she was flirting with him, and because as stated earlier, she's Superman's cousin, so logically she should be the last person Mr. Boyscout should be thinking about in that manner, yet he was.
In the first scan I showed, he is clearly twitterpated with Power Girl. Your response was the automatic "pre-crisis scans don't count", but I think it does count because this isn't the "versus" thread. We're not debating wether or not Superman can take a Hulk punch. Pre-Crisis Superman loved Lois just like Present Superman does, so my point is still valid. The scan proves that even Pre-Crisis Superman, who had Lois as his top romantic interest since his creation, was thinking about how hot his cousin was.
My point was just that if someone with upstanding character like Superman can be attracted to someone else (especially his cousin), what chance does Jean have with that hunky litle runt always running around shirtless and sweaty around her? Doesn't justify it, just wanted to point out that she wasn't alone.
The rest of it was trying to prove that it's the DC writers that were the perverts and I wasn't just imagining things.
I know this explanation was long-winded. It really needs to be when dealing with a topic like "Why I think Superman wants to hump his cousin".
Yeah, I agree. I'm not so mad at Scott the fictitious character as I am at they way Marvel writes him to be a selfish dick anytime they need something exiting to happen in his love life. Jean too. How many times has she kissed Wolverine now? Three? Four? Get over it Marvel! Logan and Jean are a crappy couple! You'll all see. They'll bring Jean back just to throw her at Wolverine yet again. It's more like a soap opera than a story about super-heroes. I guess these days people would rather read about drama and not about people doing things we can only dream about.
Not a bad idea. Anybody have a scan from the movie of Sabretooth with his hand around Storm's neck telling her to scream for him?
And just to keep this post on topic, if it is a Storm from a parallel universe, do you think this will make things weird between between Cyclops and the real Storm? Or better yet, Cyclops and Black Panther?
1. Yes, that happened in the comic. I just don't see where the "sever all ties" part comes in, tbh.
2. Uncanny X-Men 394, iirc.
3. He didn't blow off his baby; plus, you have to remember that at the time, Scott had just undergone (and was possibly still udnergoing) telepathic influencing by Maddie. Who's to say he was in his right mind at all?
4. Yes, she did. I'm not saying it wasn't right, just that she fell in love with him. When you fall in love, things tend to look different to you.
5. Why? If he'd told Maddie about Jean, she would have naturally assumed he was running back to be with her, when he wasn't. And the reason he didn't tell Jean was because, at first, he obviously didn't want to hurt her. I'm, again, not saying it was the best thing to do, but it was certainly understandable imo.
I don't mind Jean being attracted to Logan. Cyclops was attracted to Psylocke. What made me mad was Jean's utter refusal to tell Logan to f*ck off, and yet by that same token give Cyclops shit just because he glances in another woman's direction.
"Sever all ties" meaning no way of communication. Scott didn't leave Maddy a way to contact him, he didn't tell her where he was going to be, didn't say when he expected to return and didn't try to contact her until part-way through the next issue. I'll estimate around twenty days of zero communication between Scott and his family. He may not have meant for it to be permanent, but I would still consider Scott to have severed all ties for that twenty-day period. I couldn't imagine not being able to talk to my kid for twenty days. Keeping my child from me would be the worst thing you could do to me. I would think any father worth his salt would feel the same way. I also don't buy that Madelyne's telepathic influence was effecting Scott all that much in these issues. Her mental influence always seemed to draw Scott closer to her and keep him with her, like Maddy being able to guess his favorite foods and the possibility of it effecting the outcome of the fight for leadership between Cyclops and Storm. He was probably able to resist her mental influence because he wanted to see Jean THAT BAD, though it does sound as if he planned to go back home to his family eventually. That doesn't change the fact that he wasn't there to protect his family from the Reavers and could have potentially gotten both of them killed as a result of his selfish actions. I doubt he could have handled the Reavers anyway, especially if Sabretooth was there. Matter of fact, Sinister would have to just send Sabretooth. He can handle Cyclops alone (take THAT!).
Scott has always been quiet and reserved, he didn't communicate his feelings first to Maddy when their marriage was rocky, and later to Jean when they were having marital problems, so this behavior has been with the character since the early X-Men comics when he liked Jean but couldn't communicate his feelings to her easily even back then. He should have told Maddy what was really going on and told Jean he was married from the start. Period. Warren was closer to the situation than probably anybody else and he agrees with me, the whole team does. They were the ones who eventually had to tell Jean about Scott's marriage, and she had to confront him later before he would talk about it. Emma is probably a better match for him in this respect. She's at least pushy enough to get him to come out of his shell and open up to her some of the time. She might have fallen in love with Scott, but "homewreckers" fall in love all the time. Her actions still ruined two people's relationship, or at least ruined it quicker.
I think Jean and Logan are a crappy couple because Logan is supposed to have a strong sense of honor. It seems to me he does things that would go against his code of honor all the time, like trying to get in the pants of a woman that is involved with a man that he supposedly respects or forgetting his duty to his teammates while he goes off to the woods somewhere to growl and lick his emotional wounds. Jean is just a boring character. Marvel realized this years ago and tried to breath life into her with a facelift called "Phoenix". It wasn't enough to make her interesting so they created "Dark Phoenix", and having no other place to take the character creatively, they killed her off. Some years later they bring her back with a slightly new power set in a reunion of the original X-Men, but she was still boring so they kill her off again. She is a better dead legend than an on-going character in my opinion. I hope they leave her dead for good this time.
Back to Storm though, I never have thought that there is enough room for her and Cyclops in the same book. I know there's like ten different X-Men comics running right now, so my guess is that if they do bring her back to the team, she wouldn't share many of the same issues with Scott. He could use more officers anyway, but she's proven in the past that she's independent, strong-willed and likes making her own decisions unless the guy giving the orders is in a wheelchair. I foresee an eventual clash between Storm and Cyclops about team philosophy.
* ok…? so, it's really NOT Scott persé, right? you know what, these characters are just like puppets to what the writers wants them to do…
* anyway, everyone with a right and sound mind knows that abandoning your own wife and child is wrong… but according to PR's statements, Scott never really ditched/abandoned Madelyne… he just left to see if Jean was alive (eventhough, I have to admit that many people accepted the fact that Scott really abandoned Madelyne and Nathan)… I mean, who are we to blame him? Jean is the guy's first love iirc… if I were Scott, I "might" do the exact same thing (not really, but I "might")… technically, it is not Scott's fault that Madelyne was hospitalized and Nathan was kidnapped by Sinister… Scott knows that Madelyne and Nathan are in a safe place when he left them, although if Scott was there when the Marauders attacked, he might have had a fighting chance but very little (numbers game), not unless he'll unleash a GOML blast to defend his family…
* I don't know but this is my opinion… the implusiveness of previous writers to revive X-Factor using the original five X-men, forced them (writers) to let Scott abandon his family… NOT Scott's fault… the fact that proceeding writers retconned that Scott's mind was unstable at that time, and was messed by Madelyne (who turned out to be Goblin Queen) clearly shows that it was really out-of-character for him to do such thing…
* and this… Scott is not perfect, friend… but the terrible things he did? there's an explanation: mind unstable, mind messed by Goblin Queen, mind darkened by Apocalypse, the list goes on… alibis? maybe… but truth be told, Scott was STILL not in his right mind when he did those things…
* look what Jean did… sure, she's got this illogical animalistic crush on Logan during the time she was Scott's girlfriend and even when she was already his wife! it would surely help if (just what PR said) Jean just told Logan to f*ck off… yes, how many times did she locked lips with Logan? and it was d@mn physical! when Jean mindraped Emma, Scott told her to read his mind and it was revealed that (eventhough his mind was messed with Apocalypse), nothing physical happened between him and Emma (in Hongkong)… Scott was ready to turn down Emma and disband the X-men when Jean died - proof that he might have chosen Jean (still) over Emma… until it was revealed that an apocalyptic future will occur if that happens (Warsong/Endsong? don't remember)…
* funny really, ignorant people (because they all love Wolverine) even wants Jean to ditch Scott and go with Logan… oh, it's true… some people even hate Scott for being a wall that stands between the unconsummated romance of Jean and Logan… see how they (writers) twisted people's minds? Scott is the right man for Jean simply because he is his husband, but to some people, he was a d!ck and the third party…
* look at Logan… the guy's basically a male prostitute… the Marvel's cash cow, and the most - if not the most - one of the most overrated characters in Marvel universe, been involved with many women, given the fact that he's already depicted as a 40-year-old runt, a 5'3" midget compared to many other characters, hairy, feral (for quite some time)… he knows Jean is Scott's girlfriend, yet he never relented… he stopped sometime before and after the marriage, but resumed nonetheless… and now he honors her by renaming Xavier's school for her… he actually the "d!ck" in my book…
* now, Emma… the White Queen, the sex therapist… while I'll be honest that I don't like her at first, she (for me) proved her genuine love for Scott time and time again… something that obviously lacks in Jean - Emma brushes off Namor - something Jean never did to Logan… to me, it was big, really… and we never really learned more about Scott's mind before, than what we now know… Emma loves Scott genuinely, yes, it's a bad start but their relationship grows and matures…
* just my opinion, Scott and Emma's actions are justified… but Logan and Jean's? no way!
To be fair to Jean, i think that has more to do with there powers then anything. It must hurt a lot more when u can see in ur husband mind and look at the fact he fantasying about another woman. It also not like it was hard to prompt those images either, he pretty much got a hard on looking at poster which reminded him of psylocke.
by no means am i saying jean was right or innoccent. I just saying jean should not be judge to harsh for some of her more hypocritical actions.
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Jan 26th, 2012 08:13 AM
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