You've convinced me, there's nothing wrong with an adult having sex with a 9 year old, as long as he/she is regarded as an important/famous figure. Glad we cleared that up.
In some societies boys have been treated as superior to girls since time immemorial. However, this attitude dominated Arabic society during the Age of Ignorance in a more violent way. So much so that this ugly attitude took the form of burying small girls alive in the sand and, increasingly spreading, it began to be seen as legitimate. In line with the verses in the Holy Quran, the Prophet firmly forbade discrimination between boys and girls which was current in the society he was sent to and tried to eliminate the "seeing boys as superior" tradition that had developed among people on this subject. In a short time, as a continuation of ignorance, the idea of "looking down on girls" or "burying them in the sand" was replaced by the understanding that regardless of whether the child was a boy or girl, it would be seen as "a favor and gift from Allah" (Hakim, al-Mustadrak, II, 284). Here the behavior of the Prophet towards his own girls and hadiths in the form of recommendation and command played an important role.
In many hadiths related to this subject, the Prophet made statements with this common meaning: "Whoever has three (or two or one) girls or sisters and treats them well and does not prefer male children over them and educates them in the best manner, Allah will make them a shield against hell and will put them in heaven "(Ibn Mace," Adab "3; Tirmizi," Birr "13; Abu Davud," Adab "130).
This event gives the good news that parents will be rewarded for their compassion and mercy to their daughters:
Aisha narrates: "A woman came to me. She had two girls with her. She wanted something. However, I did not have anything except one date. I gave it to her. The woman divided it into two pieces and shared it between her daughters; nothing was left for her. They left. Later the Prophet came. When I told him about this situation, he said, "Whoever befriends and treats their daughters well like this, the girls will be a shield for them against the fire" (Buhari, "Zakat" 10).
Praying: A prayer heard from their elders is a sign to children that they are loved. This both makes them stronger psychologically and makes them feel loved. Many children of the Companions who received a prayer from the Prophet were distinguished on the material plane throughout their lives, just as they always felt the spiritual joy of it. In particular, Anas, for whom the Prophet prayed for "many children and much property, a long life and the things given to him to be good and blessed," lived for more than one hundred years and, with the bounty of the prayer, he received many blessings. Aisha related that the Prophet said the prayer of a father for his child was one of the prayers accepted and that he recommended it to those around him. He also made prayers for children who were brought to him for various reasons. The following are some examples:
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"The Prophet would put me on one knee and his grandson Hassan on one knee and, suddenly embracing both of us, he would say," My Lord! Treat them with your mercy, because I am also merciful to them "(Buhari," Adab "21).
Abdullah at-Tamimi's daughter Jamri relates: "My father would take me to the Prophet and ask him to pray for me. Then, the Prophet would sit me on his lap and, putting his hand on my head, he would pray for me "(Askalani, Ibn Hajer, al-Isabe, IV, 260).
Amr b. Hurais relates: "My mother would take me to see the Prophet. The Prophet stroked my head and prayed that I would have abundance "(Buhari, al-Adab'ul Müfred, 221).
Perhaps you should read up on the history regarding the age of consent, and also on the history of how Islam was founded. You might learn something and come across as less ignorant in this thread.
Actually, considering how you, TheGodKiller, and Omega Vision repeatedly failed to comprehend and address my positions, and where outright humiliated in your ignorant replies, I thought I'd be nice and let it die.
But fact remains. I've answered every single question asked of me. It's not my fault that you're too stupid to grasp the difference between an absolute statement and a relative one, despite having it explained on numerous occasions throughout this entire thread.
That's not true at all. Your positions were met and countered and you repeatedly dodged questions that showed how faulty your "it was common back then", "she benefited from the marriage so it's okay", Morals! Morals! Moral!" etc. etc. etc. points were.
LoL. yet more complete and utter lies. Poor form, Astner. You dodged most of the time and it was pointed out when you did. You continue to lash out, out of frustration and butthurt.
Maybe that's becuase your positions are incomprehensible.
You're just that smart.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
The Prophet mohammed (peace and blessings be upon him) would display the best form of treatment with children. Anas bin Malik - may Allah be pleased with him - had a younger brother; and the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) would play with him and nickname him Abu 'Umayr. The child had a small bird that he played with. Whenever the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) would meet him, he would joke with him saying, "O Abu 'Umayr, what happened to al-Nughayr?" meaning, the bird.
He would be kind and playful with children. Whenever he would meet Zaynab bint Umm Salamah, he would playfully say to her, "O Zuwaynib! O Zuwaynib!" Whenever he passed by children playing, he would greet them. Whenever he visited the Ansaar, he would greet their children and place his hand on their heads out of compassion. Upon the return of the Muslim army from Mu'tah, the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) along with the rest of the Muslims and their children met them on their way back to Madinah. When the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) saw the children he said, "Take the children and carry them, and please pass me Ibn Ja'far." They passed 'Abdullah Ibn Ja'far on to him and he held him in his arms.
One day as the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) was performing ablution, there came to him Muhammad bin al-Rabi' who was only five years old. The Prophet (p.b.u.h.) took some water in his mouth and jokingly blew it out in his face. (al-Bukhari)
Generally, the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) was lively and merry with everyone. He would always try to make people happy. He would always be easygoing with everyone so that people would not become bored in his company.
The Prophet mohammed (peace and blessings be upon him)
He is Mohammed Ibn Abdullah.
Mohammed means: The commendable in his attribute
* His self morality:
- He was the best person for he was better than any good sent to any human.
- If he was given two options on any subject he'd take the easier unless it is a sin.
- He was more timid than a virgin.
- He never carp food; if he liked it he ate and if he didn't he didn't eat not uttering a word of not liking.
- If he talked, he would talk slowly, not hurriedly and never go on talking nonsense, if you try to count his conversation you'd count it lesser than your fingers.
- He never liked to gossip about people, he'd say {No one tells me about anyone anything, for I like to meet you with clean heart}.
- He was the bravest person and the best decent, Anas said {I've served Prophet Mohammad for ten years he never said: a pooh for something I did or why did you do that? Or will you do that?} This means he never gave orders and never asked anyone to do him a favor.
- He never crap anything, no matter how bad it is.
- If anyone asked him a favor he never says no, he gives without hesitation not fearing poorness.
- He moons with the ignorant and he is patient when someone huts him.
- He smiles to anyone talks to him and concentrate on one's talk until makes one feel as if he is the most important person in the world.
- When he shakes hands in greeting, he never takes his hand before the one greeted. He'd greet first and finishes greeting last.
- He's tickle children and greets them and he'd wipe the orphans' heads and play with them.
- He's answer the invitation of: the free, the slave, the servant, the poor and he'd visit any sick person.
- If anyone wanted to whisper for him a thing he's bend his head to hear.
- He's always first to greet people.
A man came to the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) wanting a camel to ride on for a journey or expedition. The Prophet (p.b.u.h.) said to him jokingly, "I will give you an offspring of a camel." The man became surprised and thought of how he could possibly ride a camel's offspring that could not carry his weight. He said, "O Messenger of Allah! What would I do with a camel's offspring?" The Prophet (p.b.u.h.) said, "Does a camel give birth to anything but an offspring?" Meaning; I will give you a grown camel, however, no doubt, it is still another camel's offspring!
Once he jokingly said to Anas, "O you, the possessor of two ears!"
A woman once came to the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) complaining about her husband, so he said to her, "Is your husband the one whose eyes are white?" The woman became worried and thought that her husband had become blind, in light of what Allah said about Jacob, "His eyes whitened from grieving so much..." meaning, he became blind. She went back to her husband terrified and began to look into his eyes carefully. He asked her what the problem was. She said, "The Prophet (p.b.u.h.) said that there is whiteness in your eyes!" The man said, "O woman! Did he not tell you that the whiteness in my eyes is more than the blackness?" meaning; everyone has whiteness and blackness in his eyes.
The Prophet (p.b.u.h.) would react positively to whoever joked or bantered with him and he would smile. One 'Umar bin al-Khattab came to the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) who was at that time angry with his wives, due to their demanding of more allowance. 'Umar - may Allah be pleased with him - said, "O Messenger of Allah! If you recall us when we were men of Quraysh, we always controlled our women. If any of our women were to ask for more allowance, we would have jumped up and grabbed her neck! But when we came to Madinah we found the women controlling their men, so our women began to learn these tricks from their women!" Thereupon the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) smiled. 'Umar continued to speak and the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) continued to smile.
We read in various Ahadith that often the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) would smile till his molar teeth would show. He was indeed an extremely kind and friendly companion. If we were to tran ourselves to embrace such skills, we would surely taste the sweetness of life.
.:: A Thought ::.
A child is like soft clay that we shape according to our treatment of it
What questions do you want answered? You're forcing your moral system on a culture predating yours. One were everyday life was different.
If five hundred years from now it will be deemed immortal to marry before the age of 40, and the consensual intercourse between a 30 year old woman and a 60 year old man is unheard of? Does that make us immoral and heathenistic psychopaths?
Point out to me what questions you feel have been left unanswered and I'll try to reach out to you again.
Gonna be a lot of teenaged weddings in the future.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
- He was the best person to his family and very patient with them; he'd ignore their mistakes and help them at house work. He polished his shoes and sewed his clothes.
- If a kid came to him, he'd take his hand to talk to him and go with him anywhere he wants.
- He'd sit with the poor. At any board he with sit until the end.
- He hates anyone to stand when he enters and he'd prevent people to exaggerate to compliment him.
- His gravity is a wonder, he's laughter was smiles, he talks when needed, and he'd talk easily and clearly, he was the best symbol.
- If he disliked something, it'd show on his face but never would he utter a word of dislike.
- He wasn't nasty, or damned anything, he never gives badly for bad he would be patient, excusing and forgiving.
- He's never meet one is something he hates.
- Never loose temper nor seek revenge. Even the Godless of that time talked and witnessed his honesty, decency and his straightforwardness. He pitied captives, freed the slaves, he organized the country, cherished women and make her a autonomic and not cheap.
- He'd never fight unless for God.
- He never shouts nor aggrandizes his victory, when he entered Mecca he was devout, silent, his chin touches his chest because of fearing and thanking God. He didn't enter arrogance, conceit and egotism.
- A man saw him while he was roaming around Kaba (God's home in Mecca) the man shook of fearing him as a king on earth, but Prophet Mohammed told him: {Take it easy, I'm only the son of a woman who used to eat charqui in Mecca}
so, if I say "It's just my culture" I am able to ignore the moral consequences of my actions?
If I harm someone, all I have to do is believe my culture says it is ok, and I am no longer responsible for that harm? or is it that the harm is no longer wrong?
Moral systems require context, yes, but complete moral relativism renders morality meaningless. To most people there is no context where child sex is not immoral.
The basic questions come down to this:
Do you believe that an adult having sex with a 9 year old is not harmful in a culture that accepts it?
If you believe it is harmful why do you not consider it immoral?
That is a very strange moral belief, that morality in the future will be superior to morality of today, and not one most people ascribe to.
__________________
Graffiti outside Latin class.
Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
A juvenal prank.
But how do you figure that marrying and arguably having sex with a nine year old girl is necessarily harmful to her? There certainly have been women who have gotten pregnant and given birth at that age and managed just fine. So why is it objectively wrong?
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Nov 29th, 2012 09:26 PM
