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Nu52 Superman's power
Started by: emporerpants

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emporerpants
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I have to say, I did enjoy him tanking the magical blast. I don't know, maybe I'm being overly negative, or focusing on the negative side more, but it does seem like his negatives get a ton more focus on the vs. boards than his positives. This is likely due to a few of the more vocal members who clearly have an anti Supes agenda, but it still rankles to see his every low point be the subject of 10 different vs threads.

One thing I don't see get enough play, and one of my personal favorites, is when he was ground pounding H'el and the whole planet was shaking from the punches. That's just insane punching power.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2013 08:33 PM
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Yeah, and people try to downplay that still, sadly.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2013 08:34 PM
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emporerpants
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Indeed, and you just know that those same people would be trumpeting the feat to the heavens if their favorite character had done it. All because of the text describing mountains. It really is frustrating. What is it about Superman that just gets under people's skin so much?


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2013 08:43 PM
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Zack Fair
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The ammount of spotlight he gets. Hulk is now on the same boat.


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Old Post Nov 7th, 2013 09:00 PM
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emporerpants
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Man, I'm hoping that Supes pounds the crap out of H'el in this next event. It kinda seems like they're hinting at it, dare I hope? lol


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Old Post Nov 8th, 2013 05:00 PM
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emporerpants
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I don't know guys...the poor showings just keep coming. Seriously, Superman loses more than anyone else I've read in the Nu52 so far. They are constantly making him get beat or pounded on. The Russian and US armies can take him out anytime they want, easily too I might add. They had Wraith shield Supes from gunfire with Wraith talking about how Supes couldn't handle it. That is just insulting. It's iconic to have Superman no sell gunshots. What they did there was a slap in the face. Yes, I know that they are red sun amped bullets, I don't care. Writers need to stop going for shock value by having Supes lose or get hurt badly by things. It's seriously not shocking any more, and now I and many others have come to expect it.

They had Supes struggle lifting a small boat in Superman/WonderWoman. They had Supes struggle and need help with a SAILBOAT in Action Comics zero year. I don't care that he's young there. I don't care that he was tired. Having him need HELP...to LIFT something so small...from a NORMAL HUMAN...is terrible.

Seriously, how often does Batman straight up lose in Nu52? Like once or twice? How often has WonderWoman straight up lost? Again, like twice? Superman has more loses and more embarassing showings than any other character in the NU52. In one of the latest issues of Superman he said there was no way he could survive a blast from kryptonian weapon. How often do you hear Thor say there is no way he could survive something? Or Silver Surfer?

So, what are his good showings? Where are they? What are they? He tagged flash. He pushed Darkseid for a second before getting overwhelmed. He pounded on a young Hal. He lifted the world basically for 5 days. He hit H'el so hard that the earth shook. He kinda tanked a magical blast, but it still knocked him out.

Those are all great feats. But what else is there? Those feats are seriously getting overshadowed by lower end feats and loses. Seriously, for every good feat he has, I can name 4 low end feats and loses. He seriously doesn't seem that super any more. It takes away from the mystique of the character when you see him on his back so much. It also takes away from the shock of seeing him get beaten when it pretty much happens in every issue of every single one of his comics.


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Last edited by emporerpants on Nov 12th, 2013 at 07:18 AM

Old Post Nov 12th, 2013 07:11 AM
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Pillow Biter
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Above all, I hate it when they constantly refer to Superman as the most powerful being around--and treat his power with that kind of awe. But then they have a strong of characters that show up that are more powerful than him: H'el, Helspont, Darkseid (at least seemingly), Wraith, Doomsday, possibly MM, maybe WW without bracers, etc. Even Orion fought him evenly, though Superman seemed more powerful--bit it wasn't definitive.
A hero can be challenged without constantly giving him opponents who are straight-up more powerful than him 1v1. You can throw groups at him, use planning, exploit weaknesses (but don't overdo it), etc. But in any event, attitudes to him should be consistent with the reality in the comic books. With so many guys showing up who exceed his power, he shouldn't be treated with the kind of awe writers like to treat him. People would see him as powerful, yes. But not uniquely. And he isn't a threat to the entire Earth at this kind of relative power level.
So be consistent. If writers want to push the idea of him being a uniquely powerful being who threatens the entire Earth if he comes unglued, then give him that kind of power consistently. Or if they want to show him as first among the heroes by just a bit, and someone who faces many villains who are more powerful, then be consistent about that too. No more comments about how uniquely powerful he is, or how he needs to be contained in case he goes rogue, etc. And no more stories where he is miraculously treated as a teambuster who beats the world up, only for him to seem much less powerful for the next three story arcs. Pick a power level. Be consistent about it. Tailor the attitudes and comments of other characters to the power level you choose.

Old Post Nov 12th, 2013 01:29 PM
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emporerpants
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I agree 100%. That is what I've been saying for a bit.


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Old Post Nov 12th, 2013 01:56 PM
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Of course they pretty much did this pre-reboot as well. Most of the time Superman was first among equals (and sometimes not even that). But whenever a writer wanted to write one of those stories about a uniquely powerful hero that threatened the whole world (or could solo a threat to the whole world), they would pick Superman and just give him the power level the story required. Sometimes they explained the reason for the power level variations (mental blocks, holding back, psionic power, etc.). And sometimes (like in Superman King of the World) he is just that powerful for no reason at all.

Old Post Nov 12th, 2013 02:52 PM
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emporerpants
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Yeah, but at least pre-boot he had better showings on average. He wasn't totally feebed out to people on a regular basis. His ratio of high to low showings was much better imo. Honestly I don't mind the fluctuation as long as they explain it in some manner. When they don't it's just lazy writing.

I sincerely hope they at least start explaining the discrepancies. They probably won't though.


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Old Post Nov 12th, 2013 03:06 PM
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Pillow Biter
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Superman's dynamic-like power has been referenced fairly consistently post-reboot. But they haven't really picked a mechanism and explained it in depth.

Old Post Nov 12th, 2013 03:10 PM
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emporerpants
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Really? I don't remember them talking about it fluctuating. I do know that they have said that he may grow in power over time, and that in the future he could become more powerful (doubt that will happen, but whatever). I don't remember them talking about anything else though.


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Old Post Nov 12th, 2013 03:16 PM
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basilisk
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Agreeing with the comments above. Superman just doesn't feel super anymore. In fact the writers seem to go out of their way to have some character more powerful or some weapon or tactic that can hurt him. There is no way people would see him as anything unique or be particularly afraid of him going rogue when the US and Russian military alone can probably take him down, and if they didn't there seems to be a line of characters forming that could. He seems like just another guy with powers.

I've never been a massive Superman (or DC) fan, but I really think they need to give him a boost back to being distinctly top of the ladder (except for rare exceptions such as perhaps cosmic level characters like Darkseid). As said above, you can challenge a powerful character plenty of other ways besides bigger badass/bigger weapon scenarios all the time. In fact it would make these comics a lot more interesting if they did.

Old Post Nov 12th, 2013 03:16 PM
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emporerpants
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Exactly basilisk. The reason the injustice comic works is because they portray Superman as a global threat. DC can't on one hand say that Superman is so powerful that the world is scared of him going rogue, and on the other have armies capable of easily taking him down, and having tons of characters capable of taking him down on their own. With all of the characters and armies that can clearly stomp him, why would the world be afraid of him? Just shoot him with red-sun bullets and call it a day.


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Old Post Nov 12th, 2013 03:25 PM
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CosmicComet
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DCNU Superman is a complete *****.

Most of the time. I've come to that conclusion.

When he loses the high collar, maybe then he'll change and man up.

As of now he's one of the best jobbers in comics. Pretty much where Thor was for awhile.


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Old Post Nov 12th, 2013 06:10 PM
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emporerpants
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Agreed CosmicComet. I've said it before and I'll say it again, we Superman fans now know what the Thor fans were going through. I'm hoping we get a bone or two thrown our way soon though. The dream of course is get what the Thor and Hulk fans have gotten. I won't hold my breath though. DC seems to be under the assumption that to make Superman interesting they have to nerf/let him get stomped. Making him less powerful doesn't make him more relatable, it just annoys fans.


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Old Post Nov 12th, 2013 06:21 PM
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emporerpants
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It seems like DC thinks everyone's perspective is the tired old "Man, supz is teh too strongerz!!11 he is boringsz!1" So they are actively doing this in order to say "Hey look everyone! He's not that strong! See? He just got stomped! Aren't you interested yet??!!"


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Old Post Nov 12th, 2013 06:29 PM
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CosmicComet
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I don't really care about Superman being relatable.

Relatable is underdog status and stuff.

But people don't just like underdogs, they like champions too. The George St. Pierres and Anderson Silvas of the world. People they can live vicariously through because they can achieve things that are perceived as impossible. That's a different type of inspiring than what you get from underdog stories, that's awe-inspiring.

Superman is the meant to be the latter. A champion. A symbol of hope, that good is always going to win because good is always strong enough to win. Just let him do what he's meant to do. Superman isn't liked because he's a struggling hero like Batman, he's liked because he's an awe-inspiring figure that challenges your imagination. All-Star Superman, the movie in particular, probably did more good for Superman than any other modern work, and he was exactly that there.

I was ok with the He-Man treatment though in that recent first encounter. He-Man is in a similar bracket/character type, an awe-inspiring champion, and he has been out of the spotlight for a long time.


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Last edited by CosmicComet on Nov 12th, 2013 at 06:55 PM

Old Post Nov 12th, 2013 06:52 PM
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emporerpants
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Well said Cosmic, well said. smile I agree with you 100%. The way you described Supes is exactly as I have always seen him and why he is my favorite character.


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Old Post Nov 12th, 2013 07:01 PM
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emporerpants
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Well, we got a bone, Supes just punked Apollo! smile It did my heart good to see that it. smile


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Old Post Nov 13th, 2013 04:49 PM
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