Hes not just tired hes wounded because Kratos launched a catapult shot at him, something else quite slow he did not dodge.
The room was about as big as my living room, considering theres a couple of gods brawling in it, he had hardly any room to manouver at all vs a guy who has chained blades which are how long? a good 10-20 feet?
The QTE involves you already catching up to hermes or him jumping right on top of you, again with him not going at any amazing speed,I don't know where you got FTL from.
Also don't try and reach for completely normal, "completely normal" is him easily outrunning Kratos, before he drops a slow ass catapult boulder on him, relatively slow ass to the speeds your claiming anyway.
Teleportation, Kratos' peak human speeds are completely outmatched by that alone.
Are you talking about the little snippet of the fight where he does none of that stuff apart from stupidly luning right up into Kratos' face? Kratos was still slowed.
Scaled from what exactly? This is not the old Zeus' lightning bolt speed rubbish is it, because its been debunked 100x, Zeus lightning is slow as hell in every case Kratos can canonically react to it, which is iirc few since most of them are in-game.
Weve seen Zeus fight, hes again, much like Kratos, peak human. All the games prove this for the Gods when their running about human form or a bit bigger, Posiedon, Ares and Hades don't move much quicker than their size would suggest, how was Zeus even close to light speed when Kratos was kicking his ass at the top of the mountain end of GoW 2? he was getting Kratos slowly beating him with pillars, their whole fight was across like ten square meters.
The only thing lightspeed is the speed you jump to conclusions apparently...at best your talking about a outlier statement than your trying to ignore the entire game series from and at worst a scrap of hyperbole.
That's kind of my point. If you're attempting to argue him in any context, you have to know his limits. In the story, Vamp-Dracula is pretty much immortal save for his former weapon which is the only thing that can put him down. And this is in a setting with explosions, hellfire, demons, vampires, huge giants, etc.
I'm not saying "He no sells everything gg." I'm saying "You need to establish his ability to effectively be KO'd or change the rules of the fight to accommodate for his immortality.
Not being able to be bisected, maimed, or otherwise burnt is pretty high durability. I haven't finished the game, but assuming within the media he is pretty much able to shrug off anything that hits him, wouldn't this make his durability impossible to determine?
People sling no-limits fallacy around here a lot like it's some catch-all. This ignores a burden of proof.
Assertion: Dracula cannot die by anything but the Vampire Killer in his own medium.
Proof: LoS 2, in spades.
Counter Assertion: Kratos can defeat him with weapon XYZ or power ABC.
Not sure a no limits fallacy is being properly cited anyway. a no limits fallacy is not trying to suggest a power that makes an entity invulnerable actually makes him invulnerable....that's what the power may do. If Draculas shields and I don't say they do, specifically cite that they are indestructible outright, then they are.
A no limits fallacy is something that's poorly understood or described, and then from there extrapolated upon. It would be a fallacy to say Draculas shields are indestructible just because nothing in his universe can damage them.
It obviously wasn't slow, if it hit someone who can dodge a flash of literal light.
"What is ducking".
Pay attention to people's posts then.
He wasn't completely normal, that's true.
Kratos can leap hundreds of feet. "Peak human", lol, what a crock of shit.
He reacts to a foe who has slowed down time because he was quick enough to. Confirmed by the devs. Cry more.
Debunk it then, lol. With a flick of his wrist Zeus' lightning travels at over mach 5,000.
"Oh but he chose to use slow bolts on Kratos", lol, what a stupid cow.
He could fly from the ground to above the clouds in moments, and can once again deflect lightning.
Kratos is faster than Gabriel.
It's funny how you cling onto Dracula's power that makes him invulnerable as if it is entirely invulnerable no matter who fights him, but you dismiss the statement of the Warriors of Zeus being lightspeed as "hyperbole". It's almost as if you're a stupid hypocrite or something.
Total Broadband, I will respond to you shortly. You made some major mistakes, cited an outdated status quo, and appear to lack a basic understanding of how speed works.
I just assume that everyone is not to scale, unless they are roughly equal or larger than Kratos in size. Apparently Hercules was described as 12 feet tall somewhere in the Gow3 features according to the wiki. That sounds about right in my head in relation to Kratos' 8'6".
One of the devs said his height was 8'6" in a GoW3 featurette.
__________________
"To all visitors from Transylvania looking for the head of Voivode Dracula: Yes, we have it. Yes, he's dead. No, you cannot see it. No, he will not return and invade you again. It has been over thirty years, please stop pestering us."
Well as I said, slow is relative. For Hermes who runs at maybe mach 1 at peak if you push it, its fairly fast.
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Hundreds of feet? Show me...
quote]He reacts to a foe who has slowed down time because he was quick enough to. Confirmed by the devs. Cry more.[/quote]
That does not counter what I said, sure he reacts to him, the guys jumping up in his face....
Why beat a dead horse? And over Mach 5k? That's not the slow ass bolts he thows around usually so I assume this is some huge exaggeration based on fan calcs?
Never played a Tauren, but no Zeus cant choose to use anything but slow ass bolts unfortunately.
Fly? maybe, only, its a shame you cant show me many scenes of Kratos fighting a flying Zeus effectively then because if I recall, most fights are walking about, peak human....tops..
Cant recall clinging to anything apart from logic while you try to wrestle me from it. The point stands is if Dracula is literally by his games canon invulnerable then fair enough, but Dracula features predominantly in LoS 2 in this Castlevania series meaing it couldn't be an outlier for him, and it may not be exaggeration but I know the GoW series has 3 games where going faster than light would basically make every event in said games redundant. I chortle at Zeus spending half an age making a shitty blade to fight the Titans when he could speed through the whole race of them before any of them could scream and turn them to atoms.
Of course, "light speed" may merely be assumed here to be the literal scientific speed of light, and not some far fetched Greek myth like the game is based on.
And probably lightspeed as well!
I thought that was obvious, no one else tramples the debating capabilities of KMC like I do.
Last edited by Total Broadband on Mar 17th, 2014 at 10:40 PM
I won't post all of the conversations with devs, or all of the scans I've collected from books or all of the calcs right here while I'm still compiling everything, but here goes with asmuch as I can give.
Prove this.
Essense of Hyperion is the name of the move. Hyperion, the titan of
Light. It explicitly tells us that this dash move allows you to advance upon your enemy at the speed of light.
A wound that made him bleed a lot and made him pant. In essence, it made him tired. It wasn't something that hampered his motor ability. So no torn muscle or broken bones. Being tired is relative to your abilities. A tired Kratos is still class 100. A tired Hermes is still a high level speedster.
And he did not dodge it, but that's not the same as not being able to dodge. He simply stood there not moving, while it hit the statue he was standing on. Obviously he could react to it if Kratos himself could react to it by latching on to it. Similarly he also dodged a large boulder tossed at him by a titan in a scene from God of War 2. And if you fail the QTE, it shows that Hermes was not even paying attention. Anyway, at worst, its just a low feat, or Hermes was caught in a cocky idiot ball moment, which is then eclipsed by a massive high feat when Kratos faces a serious Hermes (albeit a tired one) that shows he could dodge a blast of light from even close quarters.
This is absolutely false unless you live in a large mansion, with a living room bigger than my entire house.
(please log in to view the image)
Here, a screenshot of almost the entire room. Tiny 8'6" Kratos circled in red. That is a massive amount of space. The area the blades take up would probably be 1% or less.
The QTE involves Hermes using his speed to suddenly change direction and then do a flip and try to kick you. Which Kratos intercepts.
Your description makes absolutely no sense here anywhere. What does Kratos' distance relative to Hermes have to do with anything? Does Kratos have some temporal dampener ability that makes Hermes slower the closer Kratos gets? Does Hermes' leg muscles only move fast when Hermes' is running? Of course not. Hermes' speed is innate to him. He doesn't have to go through a series of mental limiter unchecks while he's gradually building up speed before he reaches his max. He just reaches his top speed as quickly (relative to him) as a sprinter does. Explosively.
Completely normal is him being able to outrun Kratos, yet never being too fast for Kratos to keep track of and being a blur while he moves. He was still showing every bit of that in the start of the fight. While catching his breath now again. Read what I posted above. Tired is relative.
And he never had a boulder dropped on him anyway. And regardless, he showed the speed to be able to dodge a burst of pure light when he was serious, while tired, and this was explicitly stated in a conversation I had with Steve Caterson (the producer) to be a deliberate showing of his speed advantage over the other enemies since he's the only one that can do it.
So yeah, something like Poseidon being able to fly halfway down the several thousand mile tall Mt Olympus in a few (apparent) seconds and doing the opposite by scaling back up the same distance in his Hippocampi form, Hermes is faster than that.
How do we know the Helios' Solar Flare is lightspeed? Well Occam's Razor first of all, it is referred to as light in the game, and then Hyperion's light is acknowledged as being 'light speed' (Hyperion is Helios' father by the way) so that sets a concrete precedence, and also sunlight in God of War has a natural speed feat just like ours does, when the sun rises in the morning it stretches across a vast amount of land quickly and is bright enough and far enough reaching to dim out the stars in the sky too.
So yeah, you can bleat about the catapault as much as you want, but Hermes' ability to dodge the Solar Flare is a concrete speed feat as per a dev statement, and since its a higher one and later one, (and is meant to be superior to any other speed feat in God of War 3, which includes Poseidon's massively hypersonic one), it trumps it and takes precedence.
Teleportation. Really?
Like Zeus, who can teleport and create 7 extra dopplegangers of himself, or Castor and Pollux who can stop and slow down time along with teleporting were able to do to him? Castor and Pollux tried to teleport blitz Kratos from all angles in the last QTE of the fight, Kratos reacted easily, as if he knew every angle that Castor was coming from.
As for Peak human speed, what's the concensus on that? 60 mph or so right? Kratos made falling pillars that would be falling at around that speed look completely frozen in mid-air relative to him for a few brief moments. So debunked.
There's no particular part I'm talking about. Castor and Pollux could do all that and attempted to across the entire fight.
They also put Kratos in a time stop. Not just a time slow of unknown increment, a time stop. The dev who designed that entire boss fight confirmed that Kratos was able to resist a time stop because of his natural speed.
You are fairly stupid though, as you've shown throughout the years.
So somehow Castor coming forward in his face negates it as a reaction feat. Which I don't understand how it makes sense, as you can be that careless to someone who's supposed to be a statue to you speed wise (afterall, he did try to stop him in time). Unfortunately for Castor, Kratos was still fast enough to move even during a time stop.
Outdated knowledge. Kratos already has 3 word of dev statements on being able to lightning time, one of them using his deflection of Zeus' bolts in game as reasoning. One of them acknowleding the CG lightning timing feat in the God of War 2 commercial as a valid feat, and the newest one (which I've not posted anywhere yet) of a dev saying Zeus' thunder bolt's speed from the novel can be assumed as valid due to Ares doing something similar with the pillar toss from Athens to Pandora's temple--subsequently I asked him if it meant that Kratos' reflexes are then appropriately fast for being able to deflect Zeus' bolts with the fleece and he answered in the affirmative by acknowledging his demi-god status as a reason for his fast reflexes.
Zeus' lightning speed was never debunked at any point. Flawed logic such as them being slow enough to see in the game when they are moving short distances (of ****ing course they do, the audience has to be able to see them in the first place.) was what was attempted to pass. That's a part of a speed fallacy as listed in the OBD wiki somewhere. Our perceptions don't matter. Speed is relative in fiction. That and the book was attempted to be discredited but it was always secondary canon, the author said he believed the book to be canon as he was not allowed to contradict anything without specific allowance, and he had aid from Marianne Krawczyk and Cory Barlog along the way, both of whom who are/were writers for the games too. Not to mention we now have a dev statement on that specific scene in the book as allowable for Zeus and another from another dev on the books being part of the canon as far as he knows.
As for the scaling, Mt. Olympus has a statement in one of the official guides that means it would come out to be several thousands of miles tall. (Also confirmed by a dev that it can be taken at face value). Also further backed up by Mount Olympus being so high up that Kratos can descend from it and fall vertically and still cross the entire length of the Aegean Sea (iirc its over 200 miles long) by landing in Rhodes. That means Zeus mach 4000 toss becomes several times higher (maybe 10x). Zeus also has murals in God of War 1 showing him tossing bolts from the top of Olympus down to cities and armies below. Zeus was fast enough to cross the entire Aegean Sea, up to a pillar of Mount Olympus (the summit of sacrifice is confirmed to have been at the top of Olympus by the end of Gow2) all in a few apparent second. Ares did similar when in a few apparent seconds he descended from Mt Olympus all the way down to some unknown Eastern Country where the barbarians lived.
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Last edited by CosmicComet on Mar 17th, 2014 at 11:52 PM
Kratos is much faster than peak human and reacts to thinks unbelievably faster than that. That's said and done.
Speed is relative to your perceptions. This is what I was referring to as you apparently not understanding.
Were you expecting Zeus to move to China? He has no need to. If he couldn't control the speed then yes he would possibly go that far before being able to come to a stop. But again, invariably proportional reflexes comes with superspeed in fiction.
That means the 1/8 of a second or so that it would take a lightspeeder to get from one end of the globe to the next, would feel like an extremely long time to him. Afterall, his reflexes are equal to his speed, so 1/8 of a second feels just as long to him as it would for us to run the same distance (assuming running on water was not an issue).
It doesn't have to look fast to be fast. Point being, it doesn't ****ing matter if they only moved 10 meters around, you can move 10 meters while in lightspeed. If your reflexes are equivalent to your speed, it would feel no different than any normal person moving 10 meters.
There's no outlier, as there's no contradictory info. That's the first concrete statement of speed we have for God of War, but the Gods have always been shown as fast, since the very first game to be sure. Seeing as Ares threw a pillar at the very least at hypersonic speeds and was able to perceive it the whole way through while it reached its target. And also, as said before he was able to descend from Olympus all the way to some eastern country in just a few seconds. In the end, apparent time is often not equivalent to fictional time, because, again, speed is relative in fiction, so its just fine.
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Last edited by CosmicComet on Mar 17th, 2014 at 11:55 PM
The game does it for me, every being in the game, from Titan to God travel quite clearly at around peak human speed (comparative to size), check this out at the beginning of GoW 3 with titans and gods fighting slowly about the mountain. If anyone, including hermes or posiedon could move at lightspeed like their little minion apparently can literally do according to you (not proven) why do they amble around mount Olympus if they can instantly flash across the planet?
The other easy way to check this, does said character who you've yet shown create nuclear fusion or some great expansion of energy? Because anything of mass going at light speed supposedly creates vast amounts of energy, VAST amounts.
Can you prove this because it looked like that's what happened to me. Unless your telling me this thing "leeched" his stamina and made him tired somehow, enough so to slow him down my point remains, this is not Hermes at his peak.
Comparatively your using a high feet.
Can you show me this blast of light? I don't recall this.
Its called momentum, you can generally build higher speed over a period of time, few people or vehicles go from a standing position to their maximum threshold do they? The same is here, Hermes has hardly any running room here and is tired, hes exactly where Kratos wants him.
Dozens of things in gaming are refered to as "light" though, light orbs, light beams etc, whether in science fiction or fantasy "light" is a word often used but their not always as fast as actual "light" waves/emissions. It don't really care if its lightspeed or not (Helios' beam) but more importantly is how the event of Hermes "avoiding it" took place? Ive yet to see this as I said above, I don't recall. I only recall Hermes getting ever more tired from an already weakened state, the catapult outdoing his capability to avoid it is concrete and needs no calcs or guesses since a catapult shot is something we can all grasp bu lightspeed beings, not so much and is based purely on calcs and claims.
You think the fact a couple of choreographed moves counters Dracula in this vs? You do realise both of those characters from a canon perspective had few cutscenes showing them even trying to dominate Kratos with teleportation? and more importantly, were stuck in tiny arenas like most GoW games, not once did they try to get a range advantage and if they did, as per usual in GoW Kratos had a convenient way of trouncing them. Unless KMC has changed since I was last here, characters in a VS don't gain stupidity equel to the gameplay mechanics of the bosses in their fights, if you think Dracula would just stand there or teleport in the same area over and over again like a GoW boss your being quite bias.
As for speed, that's not really base movement speed is it, he was using grapels as Bloodrain evaluated in the respect thread. Even then, we have a max of supersonic+ at best. This batlefields not been fleshed out so you cant claim theres bound to be something for Kratos to reach for to pull himself around on.
Again I cite the respect thread, BR calced the time dilation pretty low if I recall. Ill wait till you post more solid stuff on the time "stop" though but my point remains, moving slowly to stop someone from getting straight up into your face like Kratos did to Pollux.
He just holds up his fleece to tank a really obvious strike, most of Zeus' moves are horribly choreographed..
Not seen it...so I cant accept the evidence if its not here can I?
lol, answered in the "affirmative"? He didn't directly say Kratos lightning timed though did he? Sounds like your grasping at straws again...of course he has "godly reflexes", hes a god. Its a shame that does not mean much in GoW since their Gods are of fairly low tier as fiction goes.
The game is the medium in which we see God of war, if we see a bolt of energy or "lightning" move a few meters a minute, then we know its slow as hell. Simple as unless you have a more official source stating that bolt canonically did move quickly at Kratos beyond limp wristed scaling from other sources you've reached for.
Play through God of War 1, 2 ,3 etc, theres a huge amount of battles that would have finished in an instant, journeys that would have been trivial etc had anyone been able to move beyond supersonic.
Why in the hell do you think the Gods made special gates to travel across distance if they could flash around like you belive? All that info countered by the fact one character ability descripton says "lightspeed" on It in one game? lol, you cited occams razor before and ill stop you from slicing your neck with it now by pointing out how assuming (no evidence) that quote on that ability is literal (lightspeed as modern science defines it) is somehow beyond everything else in the games canon so far...
If you want to get so specific, a long list of things can make speed clear. If were to assume what we see is all relative then we can still deduce distance for one, we know Zeus moves across the arenas in seconds, we know they wield stone collums, another thing to denote speed because we know a stone collumb cannot be wielded at the speed of light, infact as I said above, the force of a being walking on ground at lightspeed would blow the whole arena to piecies like a meteor had just impacted or worse for every step, didn't happen. You can "bleat" all you like about relatives in fiction, you can counter yourself at the same time by saying well maybe if its fiction assuming "light is light hur hur!" is also wrong as I said above and we don't really know until the devs directly say Zeus runs at millions of meters per second.
If you're referring to the Great Explosion, not really.
a) The Paladin was chanting along with Dracula for most of the incantation.
b) Dracula specifically stated that it was the power of God.
__________________
"To all visitors from Transylvania looking for the head of Voivode Dracula: Yes, we have it. Yes, he's dead. No, you cannot see it. No, he will not return and invade you again. It has been over thirty years, please stop pestering us."
He does not need to level a country, Ive not played LoS 2 but from the trailers he can summon a huge tendril of darkness that if I recall smashed a large iron robot to the ground, or a giant beast, cant remember which.
That should be enough to put Kratos out of his misery and more importantly, is a ranged attack that Drac could potentially do after teleporting well out of Kratos' short reach. Game, set and match and not even Cosmic Comets version of Kratos could do anything about it unless he belives Kratos can "run" at lightspeed as well.....and wipe out the God of War universe whiles he at it by accident!
"To all visitors from Transylvania looking for the head of Voivode Dracula: Yes, we have it. Yes, he's dead. No, you cannot see it. No, he will not return and invade you again. It has been over thirty years, please stop pestering us."
I know right, I mean I could have just said Dracula tears Kratos' arms and legs off and drains him dry while the God of War squeels like a piglet but that would have been boring...
Bro has more than one meaning, it's commonly used as a synonym for friend, buddy, guy, dude etc. I don't think he was calling you his brother by blood and family. Disregard this if your comment was made mainly to be a jab at him.
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Mar 17th, 2014 06:35 PM
