Zallows performance against Malgus in my estimation is worth more than most of the Jedi councils dueling feats barring the obvious mentions of Mace, Yoda, and a few others. Tiin is featless, Kolar didn't really duel Vos, and Fisto beat droids.
He is easily council level material.
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
I wouldn't say that at all. Would you say kit etc weren't master level simply because they got pwned by Sidious so badly?
And I don't know if that's true; from the video, the only Sith that seemed to stand out was Malgus, who I'd imagine is at least on Mace Windu's level based on how people talk about him.
So would the average Sith warrior on such an important mission.
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For the record it would naturally make sense that often the Jedi that would be council material would be older and wiser and experienced etc., and the more experienced Jedi would often be the more well learned and trained etc. Jedi, and I didn't say that combat prowess or power in the Force wasn't a factor at all in bringing somebody onto the council, but simply that they don't perfectly correlate. yes you ended up with some good warriors on the council, but there are also a number of Jedi who were truly among the most powerful or skilled Jedi that never made the council (Sora Bulq, Qui-Gon Jinn, Anoon Bondara, Cin Drallig, probably a lot of senior lightsaber instructors), and many of their members are basically featless (e.g. Even Piel) or have been shown to underperform (e.g. Coleman Trebor) and a alrge number of them were fodder to top tier characters, and I'm not simply talking about Sidious but even Grievous make short work of people like Shaak Ti, Mundi, Adi Galia etc and usually while outnumbered. So even if the warriors were fodder to ven Zallow, it's possible that he was just that damn good, just as Shaak Ti and Mundi and Adi Galia were fodder to Grievous. Kit Fisto was even gettting defeated by neophyte darksiders like Ventress. Kit Fisto and Plo Koon were collectively getting their asses kicked by Durge in a comic, and his regeneration didn't even come into play.
Agreed. Aside from Yoda, Mace Windu, and Depa, he's proven far more in the way of duelling than the others have.
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1. quanchi112
2-9. Various posters
10. Nai
Last edited by Astor Ebligis on Apr 15th, 2014 at 11:51 PM
Yoda - 7
Mace Windu - 4
Plo Koon - 1.5
Shaak Ti - 1.5
Ki-adi-Mundi - 1.5
Saesee Tiin - 1.5
Adi Gallia - 0.8
Eeth Koth - 0.8
Oppo Rancisis - 1
Depa Billaba - 2.5
Even Piell - 0.8
Coleman Trebor - 0.8
= ~24
I know it's not this simply but this is just a rough exercise I performed. The number represents what I think each Jedi is worth in terms of Sith warriors. I feel I was being pretty generous.
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And why is that? Their only feat is getting picked for the mission. Its not like these guys were on the Dark Council or anything.
No the Clone Wars Encyclopedia states
"'The Jedi Council is made up of some of the most skilled duelists in the Order''
Also
Shaak Ti is stated to be more than capable of stomping Grievous, as well as has her Makashi compared to Dooku's. Not to mention nearly killing Starkiller in raw sabers.
Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar, and Kit Fisto are all quoted in the ROTS novel as being amongst the greatest duelists in the Orders 25,000 year history. Not to mention Kolar and Fisto's domination of Vos and Grievous respectively.
Plo Koon fights off Ventress with a broken arm. The same Ventress who babyshook Fisto, and would likely pwn Tiin, Kolar, or Fisto.
Kenobi is the greatest practitioner of Soresu perhaps in the history of the Jedi Order.
Yoda is the most powerful Jedi in the Old Jedi Order's 25,000 year history and has dueled on par with Darth Sidious. Mace has also dueled on par with Darth Sidious.
Depa Billaba is so skilled with a blade that Mace himself admits inferiority.
Ki-Adi Mundi forces Ventress into retreat and duels on par with Grievous for hours.
Adi Gallia did really well against Savage and Grievous.
Only Coleman Kjac, and Eeth Koth are shitty duelists.
In other threads time and time again.
I'm not saying they are weak. I am saying that the Jedi Council is way better.
He takes down multiple people wielding lightsabers, as well as troopers.
Though, granted, on re-watch it's only two.
Kit has other showings indicating a higher level. These don't.
The Sith warriors fall to Zallow about as easily as the Jedi warriors- *not* a hand picked team- fall to Malgus. Additionally, the sith warriors are not shown taking down Jedi left and right like Malgus was.
The commanders were well above the warriors.
Additional, consider. If they were only willing to take along their very strongest, why bring troopers with blasters and droids at all?
While the warriors were selected for a tough mission, it was not a "only the very very best can join" situation.
I do think Zallow is stronger than most members of this council... but, conversely, he was one warrior, and these are 12
Well, my main issue with PT Jed is the fact that their accolades very rarely ever correspond to what they achieve. As the term "best of the Jedi" has been stretched from relatively weak swordsmen like Tii and Jinn, to folks like Ti and Koon who have better feats but are overall dwarfed by their Sith contemporaries of various eras. Folks like Silver and Shootingnova, routinely try to hide behind sporadic instances of their fights and the accolade as if it makes up for their lack of showings.
If they had existed truly as the best swordmasters of their era, then why do they routinely labor to kill simple droids? Fisto struggled terribly against Asajj, Vos and Bulq easily fell to the darkside, its as if Lucas doesn't really pay attention to what he says when he gives these near featless characters their accolades. Based off of how little they have, I'd reason that there is very little reason to believe characters like Tiin, Kolar, Drallig, Gallia, etc are better than Zallow, Malgus, or other characters. There simply is too little they have going on for them to make an adequate comparison
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
Also the Clone Wars TV Show Council is
1. Yoda- Can solo
2. Mace- If Vaapad works he solos 24+ blades per second feat.
3. Obi-Wan Kenobi- Can fight at least 4.
4. Oppo Rancisis- 2
5. Coleman Kjac- 1 tops
6. Shaak Ti- 2
7. Saesee Tiin- 1
8. Eeth Koth- 1
9. Adi Gallia- 1
10. Even Piell- 1
11. Ki-Adi Mundi- 2
12. Plo Koon- 3
When? I don't see him take down a single Force User.
Doesn't change anything. It's still to say that showing a great disparity to someone truly extraordinary doesn't make you below master level.
Why do you keep on referring to Malgus as merely a commander or captain? He was clearly incredibly powerful and beyond the level of such a simple taskmaster. And yes, I didn't argue that they were on the level of Malgus, just like I wouldn't argue that Ki-Adi was on the level of Mace Windu.
Tactical advantage?
I don't see why it wouldn't be. Not that they'd have to be the absolute best, but as a general tier they'd have to be right up there at the very top, below only those rare individuals like Malgus or baras or Angral or someone. And given that they numbered in the millions, that's pretty damn impressive.
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Adi Gallia was able to give a good fight to Savage (though dying in the end, it wasn't easy, and happened because his insane toughness allowed him to ignore her physical attacks). Shaak Ti has... good showings against large quantities of melee foes ^^ Ki-Adi has shown him reasonably formidable against Ventress and similar.
And heck, even Kjac is better than Trebor (he *survived* Geonosis), though we do know almost nothing else about him.
Ti would do incredible, her acrobatics and her endurance would afford her tons of Sith kills.
Plo would do well i'd imagine too.
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
Yes, easily. Many of those Jedi in the actual battle lasted for some time, even though most of them were simple Knights below Oppo or even most of the lesser council members.
One, aside from being a solid fighter himself (who has 4 arms and is known to saber-fight and force-fight at the same time), he'll be guard by literally 11 masters. If even a couple of the weaker ones stay back (Say, Even, Kcaj, and Adi purely to guard), attacking Oppo will be very difficult.
Most of the council are quite capable of facing more than one significant enemy at a time, but furthermore, fighting side-by-side means the effect of numerical superiority will be reduced, and one or two foes at a time is significantly easier (and will thus up the kill-counts) than charging into the group as Zallow did (though that is more disruptive of the enemy attack, and I fully expect Windu and a couple of the other strong ones to do the same thing).
Apr 15th, 2014 11:30 PM
