No one is cherry picking events. It has been retcon that Superman SUBCONSCIOUSLY holds back and that it takes either dire circumstances or extreme meditation to overcome his subconsciousness. Most other heros hold back consciously. It took meditation and hypnosis to get Superman well beyond in OWAW arc.
If you read the beginning of the discussion you would see that we are not talking about Superman's everyday strength (average strength) here but his extreme strength when he drops his mental blocks. So your silly comment about we use "average" showings is not only irrelevant BUT FALSE. Everyone and their momma uses high end feats to argue a character here. Champion with PG planet feat. Carver with his insane Hulk feats, Abhi with his insane Superman feats, Rage with his insane Loki and Thor feats, Vince with his insance Surfer feats, Mr. Master with his Beyonder insane feats, etc. Plus we have the Full Capacity Rule.
Superman average shown strength is not his maximum strength (because he is holding back). His average showings doesn't have him show a limit. That's like saying that since Superman lifts cars for the most part without effort then his average strength on a forum is car lifting strength, when we know he can lift mountains and greater if he wanted to. Plus we have the Full Capacity Rule.
No character in comics have went from not being able to hurt someone with physical strength to killing them with physical strength in mere moments SOLELY because they released mental blocks. No character in comics have went from fighting something for hours with little progress to one shotting them with ease SOLELY because they released mental blocks. I challenge you to find ample examples of a character doing that in the same story arc.
Also, Superman has gotten upgrades over the years. CM wasn't never stated to get any upgrades in power. It would be silly to say that CM is still equals to Superman. Otherwise, we have Pandoras box. Everyone that has an upgrade is irrelevant as they still remain relevative the same as everyone else. This is stupid.
With that said, CM isn't going to hit Kurse with all his might UNTIL he's sees that he can take it. CM will use his speed and flight to fight Kurse.
So Kurse loses this fight with little difficulty. A bfr is a simple win, whenever CM wants to employ that.
Actually Captain Marvel did have at least one power-up. When the 7 Deadly Sins were free and Ibis trapped them back, that gave Billy and the others a boost because Shazam had been using some of his power to contain the Sins, and what Ibis did freed that power for Shazam. Allegedly he had an amp after WAR OF THE GODS and the Greek and Roman pantheons merged back together, but I don't know if this is true, a rumor, speculation, what. But Superman's had power-ups since the confirmed one I'm aware for Billy(WAR OF THE GODS happened before POWER OF SHAZAM if t is legit).
It's interesting to note that in an issue of POWER OF SHAZAM, Captain Marvel specifically states he's using the strength of Atlas as well as Hercules, implying he's making himself stronger than normal, to match Superman in arm wrestling, before Superman's Mongul II training and other instances.
__________________ Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."
So superman fought for hours before deciding to stop holding back? does this sound right?
__________________ QUANCHI112:In between the passes Khan will tear out the orca teeth and use them as an offensive weapon. Khan has crushed a skull before so tearing a tooth off a whale should be no issue.
__________________ QUANCHI112:In between the passes Khan will tear out the orca teeth and use them as an offensive weapon. Khan has crushed a skull before so tearing a tooth off a whale should be no issue.
It's not him just "holding back." He's subconsciously suppressing his powers, despite what the Superman detractors say. But this is going off-topic. Would you like me to show you in a PM?
__________________ Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."
No, it was retcon that Superman can't help it, even if he tried. Even if he thinks he is using all of his strength, he is not. His subconscious doesn't let him. He has to go through dire circumstances (Someone he really loves endangered of dying or he himself endangered of dying) or has to meditate (self hypnotize) to overcome his subconscious blocks.
It was clearly explained in the OWAW arc. That's why Mongul II had to train him.
if it wasn't stated that superman was holding back against shazam specifically(and it wasn't), then he wasn't holding back. idgaf about any of his fights with other heroes.
the point is that supes and shazam have had SEVERAL battles over the years, and have always been portrayed as near-equals. ALWAYS. using cherry-picked scenes from other, non-related comics doesn't change the writers' clear intent regarding where shazam stacks up in relation to supes. i refuse to ignore the actual on-panel battles between said characters, in favor of half-ass attempts at 'dot-connecting'.
they're peers. irrefutable.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Jul 21st, 2014 at 12:37 AM
Superman does not have dynamic strength. End of story. Even his many writers know this, why would every writer state that CM and superman are equal in strength if they thought superman had dynamic strength?? Why would they state other characters are stronger than superman if superman had dynamic strength?? Why would they have him fighting BA or CM as equals if they thought he had dynamic strength??? You think superman can really talk in the comic??? The writers put those words in his mouth. Superman is not that much stronger than WW. Get over it once and for all.
A flat out lie. How the hell does he access the added strength when he sun-amps then? Every writer that has ever written superman has had him use everything he's got. How on earth you are allowed to spew this BS is beyond reasoning.
Or Superman able to restrain Blaze under the same writer while weakened who had her choke Black Adam with one hand.
Yeah and there are instances where Superman is stated to be the strongest being on earth. But since you're so adamant about superman having no mental blocks, here is Kismet showing what would happen if Superman lets go of his inhibitions.
You know what the hell a retcon is. Stop being stupid. Then using, silly ass words like, "they're peers. irrefutable" shows you are playing a con game.
It doesn't matter what writer intent was as
1. It was retcon that Superman holds back subconsciously and was explained clear as day in the OWAW arc. That means he can't overcome mental blocks without proper meditation or extreme circumstances.
2. Superman has gotten upgrades over the years. Do other characters automatically get upgraded too to stay in relation to Superman without being explicitly stated to?
Retcon>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>writer's intent from earlier comic. You beat me and others on an argument before using that reasoning.
HOTM was a retcon, despite Savage Hulk fighting all those peers of his and appearing as equals.
Sun dipping gives him strength he can never achieve, even with the mental blocks being off. Think of planetary power vs. thousands of galaxies of power.
So basically, you are saying that the OWAW arc doesn't count?
Reported for lying. Every writer didnt state Superman and CM were peers. Certainly not the OWAW writer and certainly not the DOS writer and certainly not the ones who stated Superman is the most powerful being on the Earth. Retcon>>>>>>>>earlier instances. Superman holding back subconsciously and fighting someone as equals PROVES Superman is their superior. This is common sense.
Reported for lying about 5x strength increases, Reported for lying about 50 earth weights, reported for lying calculations, reported for lying about superman not being able to access his full strength, reported for lying about him throwing thousands of earth destroying punches, reported for lying about him fighting at lightspeed ETC.
KMC Community Forums
Jul 20th, 2014 07:15 PM
Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."
