Those weren't your words. But if that is what you were suggesting then I could just turn that argument around and say Vitiate doesn't have any feats with lightning to indicate he could easily overpower someone who not only rivals himself in power but someone far more durable than anyone he's faced.
What makes you think that some bolts that might miss Vader's saber will do as much damage as SK's full on attack that was hitting Vader in a very weak spot? Sorry, Vitiate's lightning isn't that powerful, especially off a nexus.
You're forgetting that Vader is blocking Vitiate's lightning with his saber, and doesn't have a tear in his chest.
How about you answer this question: why do you assume Vitiate can do everything Sidious has shown to do? Sidious chokes Dooku from across the galaxy, and you try to use that as an argument in Vitiate's favor. Now you can't provide any off nexus lightning feats to suggest Vitiate can easily down someone like Vader, then you bring Sidious in to this. Why? I could probably make an actual case for Sidious if I wanted to, but this isn't about him, and it wouldn't help your case. Unless you just want me to go on about Sidious's superiority over Vitiate, I can do that? BTW, Vader did take Sidious' lightning long enough to throw him over the DS reactor shaft.
The 5 jedi weren't combining their strength to overcome the attack, they were individually defending themselves, and most of them were stunned in the first few seconds. Only Braga and HoT managed to successfully push through the very first assault, which was 20 seconds worth of attack. Neither Braga nor HoT has Vader's strength or durability. They haven't survived half the shit Vader has been through. Vader has had his masked ripped off and then energy columns toppled directly on him, and got right back up, and then, right after that, he tanked a powerful force explosion from Marek that damaged the DS tower and shredded apart storm troopers, and still got right back up. He's been stabbed in his stomach by his own saber and got up as if nothing happened. That's not even half of what Vader has tanked. No, Vitiate has never dealt with someone like Vader.
I didn't say it was the sole factor in containing lightning, which is why I acknowledged the likelihood of some of the bolts missing Vader's saber and hitting him. I said that it doesn't require a supremely powerful force user to be able to absorb lightning onto their saber, and that if they are able to, then the rest is left up to their physical strength and/or how powerful the lightning is in order to continue containing it.
Likewise, Vitiate can't easily overwhelm someone like Vader, unless you have feats suggesting otherwise.
Unlike Vitiate, Sidious has actually dominated the mind of a very powerful force user (Vader) from a distance of light years. Would you accept the notion that Sidious can instantly dominate Bane's mind? I can ask questions too.
Again, this is just another area that Sidious as shown himself to be greater than Vitiate's in, so if I were you, I wouldn't keep bringing Sidious in this, unless you want to be reminded how much better Sidious is than Vitiate. Vitiate doesn't get granted Sidious capabilities just because he's his rip-off character, sorry.
So tell me how Revan's mental shield is different?
Scourge was instantly dominated, so why bring him up if you're not suggesting that Vader gets instantly dominated?
If Revan can use a force attack while fighting off Vitiate's mental intrusion, then so can Vader, except even easier considering Vader is superior to Vitiate in TK and wouldn't require as much concentration for him to use a force push as it would for Vitiate to try to break through his mental defense.
I still take his opinion more seriously than I do yours, considering he wrote the character, and nothing contradicts what he said.
Other than Scourge (who doesn't have as good TP feat as Vader like NewGuy pointed out, and isn't anywhere near as powerful as Vader), Vitiate has been shown to require prep or have his opponents rendered unconscious before he can instantly dominate their minds, otherwise he's getting hurled on his ass by Revan, even while on a dark side nexus.
Here, Vitiate isn't on a nexus so most of his powers are not as great as they have been shown to be, including his telepathy. He's not instantly dominating Vader in any area of force ability without prep, or a DS nexus. Even a nexus wouldn't be that useful considering Vader would benefit from it just as much.
So just because Vitiate can withstand a Revan level telekinetic means he can withstand a telekinetic who is superior to himself? Based on what, never being attacked by one? But that logic doesn't apply to Vader concerning Vitiate's lightning?
It is unsupported unless you can support it. In this case, you haven't. It's not too late to do so; here's your chance.
He was vulnerable, though. Not because he was mentally weak, but because he underestimated Vitiate, leaving himself vulnerable to Vitiate, and was already falling to the dark side at the time. Meanwhile, Vitiate was fully prepared for them.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
Last edited by Dominis on Aug 9th, 2014 at 06:31 AM
I don't recall anything suggesting Luke was a high level telepath at this point.
Meh. Vitiate turned people insane merely from touching their minds with his.
Pffft, no it is very much a force power. If it was as easy as just holding up your lightsaber anyone could do it. I've posted proof that you need to use the Force to block it in the thread already. The lightsaber does absorb the lightning but you still need to contain and draw the lightning into the blade. That's why it's possible not to simply absorb the lightning but reflect it in some cases or to gather it around the blade and hurl the lightning back at your attacker, like Malgus does to Adraas in Deceived or Darach does to him in Return. Even Starkiller swirled lightning around his saber to give it more punch. If it was an automatic absorption by the lightsaber, those things wouldn't be possible.
Well, do you think he could walk through Sidious or Bane's lightning too? He still really has nothing suggesting he can do that.
Uh, quite often? I am sure Vitiate can bust out some things similar to Thanaton's combat ritual, Ommin/Aleema's blasts and spells or some Zannah style mind-hax. I mean, Sith Sorcerer's were a thing. And Vitiate was pretty much the greatest to live other than Sidious maybe.
You said Vader "should be capable of pushing through Vitiate's lightning with his saber" to which I replied "Vader doesn't have the feats with regards to dealing with lightning to indicate that." I was responding directly to the claim that Vader could push through his lightning, not that he could block lightning in the first place.
I didn't claim he would easily overpower him. Although since he easily overpowered 4 of the strongest Jedi of their era, I don't think you could say that. Vader has no feats of blocking high-level lightning. Meanwhile Vitiate does have high-level feats of lightning. Do the math. /Legend
Also you're forgetting that Sith walking around in Vader style armor was a common occurrence in Vitiate's Empire. Sidious even based Vader's armor on those kinds of things. So going on about how Vitiate can't compete with Vader's durability is kind of a fallacy.
It pretty much is that powerful bro. We already saw what Sidious' lightning did to Vader. Plus I'm not sure about the canonicity of that scene you're referring to. That's not how it goes in the game, ze original source.
Urgh. This was why I hesitated to ask that, I knew you'd turn it into a bloody dick-waving contest. Never ****ing mind.
That doesn't matter, since Vitiate is still attacking all of them at the same time. So he is dealing with their combined power at the same time. That Leeha, Kira and Warren were still overpowered in the first few seconds only indicates the immense strength of Vitiate's storm.
Meh to everything else.
And I said that's wrong, because you do need to be a supremely powerful Force user to contain supremely powerful lightning, to draw it into the blade. Whatever you seem to be suggesting, if I'm reading you right you're admitting that it comes down to the strength of the lightning to keep the lightning contained after you've drawn it to the blade. Well, I say that Vader can't do that to Vitiate's lightning.
Of course, I can also suggest that if Vader can't contain the lightning it could destroy his lightsaber with the power he can't contain. Exal Kressh style. There's more ways to skin a fox than punching it in the snout. He doesn't need to be content with hitting Vader with just a few bolts if he does that.
I don't recall suggesting it would be easy. I think he could take it decently well for a while. Though I do think that if he does his charged attack Vader is going down in short order.
Darth Revan and Darth Malak are not very powerful Force users now? That's a laugh, both have been confirmed to be amongst the greats. And no I wouldn't accept that, becuase Bane actually has feats of resisting powerful mental attacks. Vader doesn't.
That's nice.
He didn't really go into specifics. Only that what's different about his confrontation now is that he knows how to resist Vitiate "this time." Do you think the difference between Darth Revan and Reborn Revan is so vast that D!Revan gets instantly dominated with Malak and yet R!Revan can resist Vitiate for 300 years if they're using the same technique? No, he could resist the second time because he knew how to this time. Vader doesn't have this advantage.
He didn't get dominated, he got pwned by the psychic anguish and rendered incapable of fighting back. Since Vader has some mental feats and is very powerful, I can see him doing better than this but I still don't think he can effectively attack Vitiate while he's working on dominating him.
Revan was shielding his mind from Vitiate using the knowledge he gained through experiencing it first hand. Since theres no mention of the agony Scourge faced (all that's mentioned is pressure), it's a safe assumption that he never had to deal with that shit. Vader will. And he won't take that and be capable of busting out his best attacks like Revan was.
That's super.
Vitiate required no prep to attempt to dominate Revan. Drews a senile twit.
Vitiate also became much more powerful than he was in his fight against Revan or in some other of his feats, due to draining his servants and Revan and other increases of his power. So him not being on a nexus is irrelevant, if a nexus was ever even an issue.
And once again, I never stated Vitiate would instantly dominate him. I think Vader is good enough to put up a fight against even Sidious, so of course he can hang with Vitiate for a bit. Though I do still think that based on the evidence, if Vitiate goes for the mindhaxx Vader will be incapacitated and taken out in short order.
No, it's because a dude merely drawing on Vitiate's power can resist Revan level TK.
For the record I think it's a dick move insisting I type out feats you already know and that I've already argued with you about.
Meteor feat.
Tossing around Nox and the Warrior.
Ripping apart a ceiling casually.
Tanking Vitiate's TK.
Hurling a heavy stone lid across a room in an instant.
He's controlled the minds of enemy soldiers piloting ships from considerable distances, forcing them to fire on their allies. He's controlled non-force sensitives, forcing them to do very specific tasks. He's reached out with his mind and scoped an entire asteroid field, detecting all in it's borders. He was able to reach out and touch the mind of Wedge Antilles whilst the latter was piloting an X-wing a considerable distance away. He's contacted Leia telepathically despite her being a considerable distance away whilst only faintly conscious.
He's certainly not the absolute highest class, but Vader touching his mind and communing with him without his consent from star systems away is impressive. Not only this, but he was able to rip secrets from Luke's mind whilst the two were locked in combat, which is even more so. Luke has high-caliber TP, and Vader's is even better than that, Scourge can't compete.
I'm not arguing Vader's TP is superior to Vitiate's, I'm arguing that he *may* be capable enough to defend himself to some degree against an assault from Vitiate.
Of course it's not that easy. It requires speed, precision, strength, and considerable defenses, but upper class Jedi are demonstrably capable of it.
Obi-Wan can't absorb lightning with his bare hands, and almost no Jedi can. But I assure you there are a good number of Jedi that have blocked lightning with their saber, because otherwise the Jedi would have been raped by Vitiate's millions of lightning-wielding Sith Lords.
I don't see any. Also, Vader has blocked lightning from Galen Marek and Count Dooku regardless. He also has extraordinarily powerful Force Defenses, has built-in lightning-proof insulation in his armor.
Walk through it? No. Stop it with his lightsaber? Yeah.
Again, his TP and Illusions seem to be his "Zannah style mind-hax". We've never seen him demonstrate blasts or combat-spells in any of his battles, and I don't see any reason he could or would use them here.
This all fine but Revan was capable of stretching his senses to galactic scale and more highly impressive stuff.
Reconstituted ancient Sith Empire also have produced some of the greatest masters of telepathy in the mythos, list includes Dread Masters. Emperor Vitiate is arguably unparalleled in matters of telepathy, he can easily break an opponent of Vader's caliber with just his telepathic abilities.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Aug 9th, 2014 at 03:55 PM
Emperor Vitiate have fought many individuals actually, so many that a count have not been officially provided. His first major fight was against Lord Dramath, at the age of 10.
Oh the irony of this statement. Let me know if you can find people on here that take you seriously on any level.
Well, I guess you don't count him disposing of the entire dark council. Or the fact that the Hero fought his Voice. Don't let little facts like that get in your way.
Emperor Vitiate have dealt with many adversaries, this is why he continued to strengthen his personal powerbase and increase his safe-guard with passage of time.
Following are (known) major battles:-
- Sith Lord Dramath
- Sith Strike Team led by Darth Lokess (first known rebellious Dark Council)
- Revan and Malak
- 9 members of another rebellious Dark Council during the era of Revan
- Revan (second time)
- Jedi Strike Team led by Tol Braga (HoT included)
- HoT (second time)
TOR sources reveal that dozens of other Jedi were also dispatched by the Order to gather information about Emperor Vitiate and eliminate him if possible besides HoT but they all failed. In-fact, Emperor Vitiate killed many individuals in his homeworld to become its ruler.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Aug 9th, 2014 at 06:54 PM
Now, how about you, how many people take you seriously? Not too long ago in the battle bar you was the center of everyone's amusement, while you tried so desperately to prove that you don't pirate games, as if any one actually cared. They were only trolling you, just as I do when I respond to you. #cluelessmuch
Why don't you go enjoy your "wife." I know you're ashamed of her, but you could always turn the lights off.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
He didn't battle the Dark Council. He utterly destroyed them to be sure, but it wasn't a fight. As for what the HoT fought, I think there's more evidence for that being the real Emperor than a Voice, but it matters little either way. It's still Vitiate walking into a lightsaber.
You've been here longer than me, and to this day you're still not taken seriously. You're only here to amuse the rest of us. But it's so cute that you have opinions that nobody cares about. Gives the rest of us something to laugh at.
It is as much a battle as any other battle, Emperor Vitiate performed an offensive action to subdue that rebellious Dark Council. In similar manner, Emperor Vitiate performed an offensive action to subdue the duo of Revan and Malak.
TOR Encyclopedia hinted that HoT knocked out a Voice, not the original body. In-fact, Emperor Vitiate was massively weakened at this point from disruption of his ultimate ritual. This was a "now or never" moment.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Aug 9th, 2014 at 08:01 PM
Vitiate knew they were coming and planned accordingly. He attacked them without them ever noticing. How is that a battle?
Uh huh. Go ahead and show me where I said that he said that he didn't.
I said there was more evidence for it being the real Emperor than not, but I never denied the possibility of it being a Voice, and never denied that Vitiate is weakened. Either way, Vitiate was in control of his actions and walked into the saber.
Aug 9th, 2014 06:22 AM
