When you say at the best of his ability, do you mean the best that he has shown on panel? Or are you turning off his personality,to allow people to claim how he would fight out of character? In character he loses. Betty was clearly above the physical stats of a character that has, and always will give Norrin a really good fight.
I don't see him winning at all. Betty was written to be well above his tier, and we have seen how well he does against characters well above his tier. if not he just BFR's her the moment that the battle begins.
In that case, Betty as a Red Hulk would add his abilities to her already over the top might, and wind up killing him. She would be far more dangerous to Norrin than the Hulk would be. Norrin is a well of power, she is a power sponge. I don't think that this is a very good match up for him TBH.
Surfer telepathically fills her mind with bliss while simultaneously projecting a mental image of peaceful scenery. While Betty is enthralled in this mental euphoria Surfer slowly drains her of her powers until she becomes human Betty. He then sits peacefully while human Betty enjoys an endless dream unaware that she's still in the battle.
Or powers up on her radiation, like he siphoned off the Uni Lord. (An abstract level being)
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
All of the above statements fail to take a lot into consideration. At the time of HOTM they hadn't yet nerfed the Red Hulks to the point of what they have become these days. Let's talk about what a Red Hulk can do before making it out as if the Surfer would take an auto win from one. After all, Ross drained the Surfer before he could even begin to launch an attack, Arm'Cheddon did as well, Khoon denied him, and nearly killed him. He isn't invincible. When Betty was in the Dark Dimension, and fought against Banner, her powers didn't somehow change from what they were before she became involved with the Wishing Well.
I've said this before, the Wishing Well did not change her powers in terms of how they worked up til that point, they just gave her the ability to keep pace with Banner as he continued to climb in power, by siphoning his power into herself. Rulk had a limit to the amount of power that he was able to absorb when he fought the Hulk, and Thor. This was shown when he began to overheat (Side Note - The Wishing Well prevented this from happening to Betty). The Surfer is not as powerful as both Thor, and the Savage Hulk combined. Together, they would destroy him. Betty on the other hand was so amped up with power during HOTM, that there would be no way for the Surfer to overload or overpower her.
This is how it would literally look. Betty comes in well above the high Herald tier, as her power levels are as high as they were during the HOTM arc, and she has the ability to drain off the Surfer's powers and add them to hers. This included being able to use his very powers against him. Rulk was able to do this and even rode the Surfer's board.
There may be people out there who would like nothing better than to ignore how her powers work, but nevertheless her powers are canon. As far as I know, Rulk's Loeb stories were not retconned, and are still part of Red Hulk cannon. To give the Surfer the win here, would be to ignore that he wouldn't be much more than a snack to Betty at the level that she was at, when she was in the Dark Dimension. I can't see him winning at all.
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Last edited by Stoic on Oct 24th, 2014 at 11:53 PM
Norrin didn't even try and energy drain Rulk, though. This is something he's proven he could do against various Hulk incarnations. If he could do it to a being as powerful as Uni Lord, he could certainly drain any Hulk. Even a World Breaker (Or Superman Prime, for that matter)
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Or we could post that scene where the Avengers (including Thor), the Fantastic Four along with some other heros were called nothing compared to WWH and was casually dismissed with a stomp.
Rulk was able to drain off the Watcher, Betty was far more powerful than Rulk was due mainly to what the Wishing Well was doing for her. You can't be trying to ignore the Wishing Well, can you? Let's not confuse a Red Hulk with the Green Hulk. A Green Hulk absorbs energy innately, while a Red Hulk absorbs energy consciously, and innately. If Norrin was able to counter being drained by a red Hulk he would have countered it when Rulk was draining him, or when Arm'Cheddon was doing nearly the same. he is not immune to being drained.
Again Betty and Rulk were not remotely in the same league in terms of power. Betty crushes him in scale, and scope. I don't care about what he did to Uni Lord, like I said, just look at what Rulk did to the Watcher, the Grand Master, and the rest of the very powerful characters that he literally walked on, this also includes the Surfer himself.
Betty made Rulk look like a 10 pound weakling. She has the ability to siphon his abilities, power, and energy, And she is backed by the Wishing Well. The Surfer isn't as powerful as you seem to be trying to make him out to be. There is a reason why he is a high Herald. Betty was well above this level.
We're not talking a trans tier here.. Uni Lord was above Skyfather level, easily. More on par with Galactus or Eternity then anything.. He created life, people, a universe. He played with souls like people play with toys, and split up Surfer's body into pieces like he was a jigsaw puzzle. Surfer only beat him because his draining his energy into himself. It hurt tremendously, and he couldn't contain such power forever, but it marks him as possibly the greatest power drainer in comics. Well above the likes of Parasite.
Which makes sense. Big G did claim he created Norrin to oppose him one day, and the most efficient way to ensure that is by creating someone that could absorb enough power to become a real threat..
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
BS. The Surfer is a herald level character, let's not try to attempt to raise him to Abstract levels, because if he was, his battles with Thor, Morg, Firelord, Aegis, Tenebrous, and Thanos himself would have gone differently. Odin one shot slapped the hell out of him. Your argument holds no weight. Face it, a one shot good showing will not overturn all of his average showings. By the way, did you read the OP? SIA said in character.
Actually, on average his showings are well above the likes of Thor and Hulk, and quite a bit closer to trans level. It's just, he's a B list character. He's always look even with Thor "at best", in the same way Alan Scott will never outshine Hal Jordan, even though by rights he should as he's much more powerful...
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
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Oct 23rd, 2014 04:47 PM
