Fated-
I was clearly not referring to her killing two of them with saber throw from behind, which bears no relevance to lightsaber combat, with your hands, using the forms. It's a moot point.
A disadvantage shared by both the MagnaGuards and every other Jedi who has fought them? They use the seven forms - they can't be that unfamiliar anyway.
Ah, good, this will be useful for later on when you get upset at me for presenting my opinion on Ti's statement.
Correction - she killed them with her staff, not her saber. The only saber kills she achieved were when she killed two with saber throw, which we both know is irrelevant, and when she killed one after an extensive period of dueling. The ones she killed with her staff died due to their own inability, as per LoE.
She wasn't dodging anything when they weren't in immediate threat of being hit, and when she was fighting in such areas for considerable periods of time she failed to kill anything without a lot of bother.
Hmm.. I dunno, I mean Dooku standing right in front of Anakin might have been enough of a distraction for Anakin not to defeat the MagnaGuards, being his near-equal and all. Not sure tho tbh.
It was actually like four IIRC. And I guess it does, I mean it's a pretty solid feat. Good for Nahdar
And like I've said, Fisto has other displays to put him above Shaak anyway.
I don't remember Makashi simply disregarding elegance or the opponents defence, taking to the air, and impaling the opponent bluntly and directly. Maybe you could tell me about that tho tbh?
Could you show me Shaak Ti butchering two MagnaGuards with her lightsaber please, in the manner you're describing? Haven't seen it personally.
Not really. The quote is up for interpretation. Shaak Ti being within two tiers of Anakin, Mace or Dooku isn't.
Rofl. The quote wasn't shortlisting the most skilled beings in the Order.
I didn't dispute that she locked them, I just question if she'd be able to keep it up for longer than it lasted.
Right.. because being a blur supersedes Kit's showings, or any Jedi worth half their salt
Ship feat isn't even relevant to combat or noteworthy.
I'm sure Kit's lightsaber will be doing a better job.
Are you upset, Fated?
Well, outside of their fatigue, Grievous inherently has every other advantage he brought to that fight over them, so it's questionable if he couldn't have beaten them all fresh. Three of them weren't noteworthy duelists at all, one struggles with Grievous' henchmen, and the strongest member of the team's most prominent feat is against Grievous himself, so outside of that he doesn't have much to fall back on. Rid the team of the weaker members, send Shaak flying again, and then finish by defeating Mundi again? Not implausible.
And let's not pretend being on the larger side of a 5v1 isn't a pretty absurd advantage to have over someone, despite that someone standing in the middle of all of said 5 and outfighting them simultaneously.
Grievous would absolutely annihilate Shaak Ti by herself. The fact she couldn't defeat him with four Jedi aiding her doesn't lend credence to the claim she could do it herself.
Lol. Grievous' "arrogance" wasn't preventing him from fighting as best he could, and he wasn't any clumsier due to having new limbs. Shii-Cho and fatigue were the main advantages.
And nobody denied this. Not sure why you're still banging on about it tbh.
I'd love to hear or preferably see them.
That's generally how Force Augmentation works, yeah.
On neutral ground, the Force's alignment is balanced between both sides of the spectrum, allowing Force Users of any alignment to draw on the Force as an energy source as freely as the environment allows.
On Felucia the dark side was weak while the light was stronger.
Care to quote the part in this thread where I say any of my opinions are fact? Also, the useful part from earlier comes in here
She kept them at bay for a bit, sure, but that's all she did outside of the staff portion of the fight. Not sure why briefly holding off fourish MagnaGuards supersedes Kit's relatively extensive and impressive track record.
Ah.. see we had this issue with Anakin fighting MagnaGuards with another near-equal duelist present (Dooku). Now I'm not sure, tbh, but I think maybe Grievous being there might have been why Fisto wasn't comfortable taking on three MagnaGuards. Call me nuts here, but perhaps Fisto didn't want to fight the three Elites in addition to Grievous, due to Grievous or the trio separately being something of a challenge. Tbh?
Nahdar > Shaak Ti tbh
Being the temple's finest swordmaster would elevate her above Ti, yes. I can't see how that is funny though. Also, Ti not even being mentioned whilst Drallig was directly mentioned as being someone of considerable skill, yet no challenge to Anakin, is telling of her presence being insignificant. (please log in to view the image)(please log in to view the image) Part 2 coming soon.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Koth was fighting numerous MagnaGuards, not one, not to mention Grievous at the same time, lol. Kit again had Grievous present when facing the MGs. Obi-Wan's use of Soresu prevents him from hastily defeating MagnaGuards, and again, he fought more of them than Ti and did better than her. Anakin killed four in less time than it took Ti to kill one. Not sure on Gallia though she would be inferior to Kit as well regardless. Although she was taking down a few MGs in Obsession, so that hurts your case
Just Ahsoka and Shaak I'm afraid.
Did you forget to address the part where I said that running away from Anakin prevents Ti from being a top 10 duelist within the Order?
Lmfao.
Kit is among the best in the Order. She wasn't shortlisted in that quote. Revered, but not in terms of lightsaber skill, and that accolade would prove nothing relating to this discussion anyway, being a master of lightsaber forms is irrelevant to practical skill, Kit also has "one of the most" accolades, and having "legendary" strength in the Force is ambiguous at best. Mace has also praised Kit pretty extensively, so fail to see your point there.
I agree with everything apart from those three dreadful words at the end.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Also Cin was noted a priority threat for elimination, something which Ti doesn't have, along with the statements of Dooku and it's noted that few can match a Battlemaster's skill with a lightsaber.
Ontop of that, Cin being personally trained by Yoda in lightsaber combat and him being noted as one of top swordsman in the Jedi Order.
So really this whole Anakin dueling Ti thing sounds far fetched, because I've looked at TFU databank, it says nothing on it. I looked through TFU campaign guide, says nothing on that, I've looked through my other sources involving Ti...and nothing on that.
So it doesn't add up, that Ti would survive an encounter with Anakin when Cin couldn't. On an interesting note though, as per the ROTS novel, Cin was also dealing with Clone Troopers firing upon him and some younglings as he was fighting Anakin.
Last edited by Zenwolf on Jan 17th, 2015 at 04:42 AM
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
So what you're saying is... one of Shaak Ti's best dueling feats, that was shit anyway, that has been lauded in both versus series youtube videos and boards as the hottest shit since Agen Kolar nearly soloing Sidious... is fan-fiction?
Take a good hard look at yourselves, Shaak Ti fans. This is an important day for you. It's an opportunity for you to cover your losses, accept inferiority, and move onto a less shitty Togruta like Ahsoka who might turn into a good duelist when she gets a bit older. Until then you aren't really cooking with fire with this MagnaGuard business.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Pretty much yeah, I guess what that whole thing stems from is this quote..
Which turned into her dueling and actually stunning him.
Tbh when I first saw it, it literally made 0 sense to me as to why she could actually duel him long enough to stun him and get away, when Cin Drallig couldn't being her superior.
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You're argument of Fisto>Ti is based on a showing that Fisto beat two Magna-Guards in less time than Ti. Which is -in fact- wrong.
The text in LoE doesn't specify the time of which it took Fisto to destroy the droids. It only stated that he was evading them and then killed them. him beating them faster than Ti beating the Magna-Guards is an inference of your own creation, not fact.
"To the rear of the car, where Grievous's pair of MagnaGuards had made the mistake of pitting themselves against Kit Fisto, the Nautolan's blade was a cyclone of blazing blue light. Resistant to the energy outpourings of a lightsaber, the phrik alloy staffs were potent weapons, but like any weapon they needed to find their target, and Kit simply wasn't allowing that. In moves a Twi'lek dancer might envy, he spun around the guards, claiming a limb from both with each rotation: left legs, right arms, right legs...
The speed of the train saw to the rest, ultimately whisking the droids into the canyon like insects blown from the windscreen of a speeder bike."
— Star Wars: Labyrinth of Evil.
There is no mention of time. In fact he was evading them. He didn't outright perform better than Shaak Ti. that is false.
Once again i point you two Kit fisto's own inability to defeat the magna-guards from Grevious' lair and the fact that Fisto defeating the two magna-guards faster than Ti, is wrong.
Is that so? So I’m guessing several in and out of universe quote should simply be disregarded based on your own conclusion?
The second form of classical lightsaber combat, Makashi, is also known as the Contention Form, or the Way of the Ysalamiri, after a curious creature from the inner rim. This is the preferred style for lightsber-to-lightsaber dueling, and it is the most elegant of the six traditional forms. Makashi emphasizes precision strikes and well balanced footwork. A form II practitioner keeps both feet, one in front of the other, on a line and advances and retreats along this line, avoiding the leaps and acrobatics of Form IV. It is a one-handed style, thus its adherents prefer using well-balanced lightsabers, including curved-hilt variants. A successful Form II duel is quickly ended by penetrating an opponent's defenses and landing a Mark of Contact or a disarming strike. Skilled duelists are proficient in two Marks of Contact. Sun djem allows them to swiftly dislodge lightsabers with quick, spinning moves or by striking and burning an enemy's fingers. Shiak consists of straight-ahead piercing stabs that are a natural result of this stance. Form II duels are a respected tradition among those Masters who have earned the honorific title of blademaster. Every year during Mid-Year Fete, blademasters exhibit their skills for their fellow Jedi in the exterior courtyard of the Jedi Temple. Marked by an opening salute and a blade flourish, duels are run until all challengers have been disarmed or have conceded. The use of Form II experienced a resurgence during the last war when the Jedi Knights found themselves facing armies of saber-wielding Sith. Makashi's fluid attacks and feints provided a critical edge during those duels to the death. Fewer Padawans have elected to study Form II in the years following the defeat of the Sith at Ruusan, because the odds of encountering a lightsaber-wielding enemy are now close to zero. However I still consider Form II the most disciplined of all forms, and I still encourage its study.
— Jedi Path.
(credit to emperordmb for the quote)
The same video, where she was fighting the two Magna-Guards and evading the train. Also, her not totally butchering the Magna-Guards is completely in keeping with the Makashi Tenets and it's stated that a single blow could end a fight, sound familiar hm?
"Form II: Makashi
A refinement of blade-against-blade combat, Form II has produced some of the greatest dueling masters the galaxy has ever seen. By the time of Star Wars saga, Form II had pretty much become an archaic curiosity, as modern Jedi had not faced lightsaber-wielding foes in over a thousand years.
Form II is elegant, akin to a refined fencing technique. It even includes formal salutes between combatants. Form II does not focus on attack, but rather economic movement in defensive parries. The intent is to force the opponent to tire himself out. With extreme skill, Form II could be used to hold off multiple opponents, but generally needed to be partnered with more aggressive forms in order to land a blow that could decisively end a conflict."
— Star Wars.Com(Fightsaber: Mastering the Art of Lightsaber Combat)
Funny, seems like the quote of Fisto apparently blitzing the Guards in second despite the fact that nothing states that, isn't up for debate, but when Shaak ti doesn't even admit inferiority, it is. How curious.
I suggest you check the quote again, it's listing "greatsword beings" the text explicitly states this.
Casually dodging Omni-directional blaster fire without even a sweat or look of worry whilst TKing a woman is impressive, creating a weave of energy with her blade is also impressive.
but moving faster than Clones could perceive - Clones that would go on to Kill a Master that kept up with Grevious speed, Is?
Except, there's this.
"Four Jedi Knights, all these soldiers and guards," Palpatine went on, gesturing broadly. "Why not wait until Shaak Ti and Stass Allie arrive."
— Star Wars: LoE.
This after the fight on the tram, where Palpatine had seen both Fisto and Mace, yet he threatened and considered the two female Jedi’s to be more than enough to kill Grevious, not Mace or Kit.
Your next argument may very well be. “Oh, but what does Palpatine know? He’s just pretending!”
Well, aside from commending Shaak for her valiant efforts in various battles there is also this.
“Supreme Chancellor Palpatine himself officially commended Shaak Ti for her efforts and notable actions on Dagu, Geonosis and Centares. He grew to trust Shaak Ti and her abilities. Keeping her as part of his inner circle of protectors during the increasing dangers of the Clone Wars”
-- Star Wars: Databanks(Shaak Ti)
Being more aware of her abilities, Palpatine considered her and Stass to be more than enough to beat Grevious. Following along the same lines, Shaak Ti is assigned at protect the Chancellor – who would be a high priority – with only Stass Allie.
"Tiin, Koon, Ki-Adi-Mundi, and some of the others are on their way up the
well," Mace said. "I sent Stass Allie to assist Shaak Ti in guarding Chancellor Palpatine."
— Star Wras: LoE
Ignoring the story again? The doctor explicitly told Grevious that he wasn’t at 100% and that he shouldn’t engage in combat. How about ignoring the fact that the Jedi were all tired?
The Jedi Council dispatched an elite Jedi taskforce—including Council Members Shaak Ti and Ki-Adi Mundi – to Hypori, Barrek having the most the experience with the industrial world, was to take command of the Jedi unit and accompanying clone troopers upon arrival.
The Hypori campaign quickly collapsed into disaster. Orbital mines destroyed all the transport craft, causing them to crash behind enemy lines on Hypor. The factories churned out thousands of battle droids to destroy the survivors of the crash. Many of the clone troopers died in the intial clash, and what few were left were decimated by droid laser fire. The Jedi were trapped – and the situation worsened.
The droid forces on Hypori were commanded by none other than General Grevious himself. He personally lead his battle droids forces to surround the Jedi survivors, and killed Daakman Barrek
— Star Wars: Databanks(Daakman Barrek)
Considering that the entire Jedi team had to be tired out by fighting cannon fodder, I don’t think Grevious could defeat Ti or Ki-Adi(if they were at 100%). The following quote from Labyrinth of Evil, supports this.
"No, no, stop, stop," he yelled, coming to his feet and striding to the middle of the training circle, his arms extended to both sides. When he was certain that he had their attention, he swung to Grievous.
"Power moves served you well on Hypori against Jedi such as Daakman Barrek and Tarr Seir. But I pity you should you have to face off against any of the Council Masters."
— Star Wars: Labyrinth of Evil
Certainly.
Get’s shot, heals herself, gets back up and fights two combatants whilst still recovering from her injury and kills one of them and casts TK like it’s nothing
Jedi: Shaak Ti.
TK a bunch of droids, Destroy a bridge and a number of droids alongside Anakin and Obi-Wan by combining their Telekinetic power, she then proceeds to seal the hole that they made with TK – alone.
Defense Of Kamino Comic.
To your first point: So Starkiller was using the nexus, then.
Because of Shaak Ti’s presence, after her death Felucia became dark once again.
Too bad I said that it was speculation on my part and not fact
Of holding them off for an unspecified amount of time? I don’t think so.
Any confirmation that they were elite droids? If that’s the case then I guess Ti fought a bunch of his elite droids on Coruscant. But then again, that’s just speculation now isn’t it?
Then I guess Drallig > the entire Temple then. Even Jedi who actually fought Vader like Anya’Kuro and Sha Koon. Nice logic.
A quote that was misread to seem as if he defeated droids seconds, speed which Shaak Ti is more than capable of matching, Comparable TK and An acclaimed and established Master of lightsaber combat in several sources. Shaak Ti is continuously regarded as powerful in both the force and combat and has proven herself time and time again. I consider Fisto powerful, but Shaak Ti is better.
Holy giant wall of text batman! that was long, sorry about that. enjoy reading and rebutting. sayonara.
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Last edited by Fated Xtasy on Jan 23rd, 2015 at 08:42 PM
Jan 16th, 2015 10:42 PM
