Of course he did. He had all that time to fvck around with Sith artifacts, holocrons, shrines, etc. He was just in the basement basically of the old Jedi Temple/Imperial Palace jus' fvcking with shit. How could he not have grown in power?
Learning from holocrons and artifacts increases one's knowledge of the Force and how they'd be able to use it in certain scenarios. And lol@ Palpatine not doing hardcore training
The ancient Sith would disagree. All TOR era Sith DID for a living is screw around with artifacts. The process of messing with ancient stuff is how he learned what the Sith of thousands of years ago did for giggles.
If Sidious does lose the other thread, he isn't getting stomped or even soundly defeated. Savage and Malgus aren't far apart in sheer power, except Savage doesn't have lightning.
Even in Sidious's fight with Yoda on the spirit plane, Anakin provided absolutely no help because of the power distance between Sidious and Anakin. And while Anakin was only an illusion, Yoda thought he was the real deal, and new he was running head first to his doom. Yoda knows how powerful Anakin is, and before Anakin intervened, Yoda was equally matched by Sidious, indicating that Yoda thinks of Anakin as fodder to one who is equal to him [Yoda] in power. If you take that into account, Maul and Malgus would be easy take outs for Sidious.
I'm not sure why you see this team as soundly defeating Sidious. Vader being 80% of Sidious has nothing to do with how much support his teammate would provide. Yoda was an equal of Palpatine's and didn't even think Kenobi would provide him any help. Yoda's opinion makes more sense now that he had faced Sidious on the spirit plane.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
From that distance he can just TP either of them and just kill the other via blitz or some other force power. He wouldn't even break a sweat.
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
But he is a lot more polish, and he has Vader with him.
Savage's main problem when he fought Sidious wasn't power, it's that the skill gap was enough that Sidious could just dance through his guard and stab him.
Vader's stronger than that Anakin, though. Certainly less reckless.
Yea, there's *no way* he can take on those three. At that point, they have the option of just standing side-by-side and force'ing him til he's dead. Or taking him in melee for sure. Either way.
Not a lot, he isn't. He relies heavily on his strength as Savage does. In the force, Malgus has lightning whereas Savage doesn't, but that's the biggest difference.
And Savage had Maul with him. Didn't stop Sidious from stomping them without even taking them seriously.
That's because Sidious held back his force power. Yes, there is a huge power gap between Sidious and Maul + Savage, let alone just Savage. However, you are right about the gap in skill. I'd also add the obvious speed gap as well. The gaps are about the same between Palpatine and Malgus.
If Sidious decided to use more of the force, then it would have been a huge problem and a quick victory for Sidious. Savage is no match for Sidious' TK as shown when he was unable to break free from Sidious grip despite Sidious also dividing his attention to hold Maul, or when he was unable to prevent himself from being gripped and pulled them off a balcony by a Sidious as he was falling, and again Sidious was directing his power at Maul, who was also helpless. They both were shown to be helpless even together (and more than once).
I wasn't exactly comparing Vader to Anakin. Just that the argument of Vader being 80% of Sidious and Malgus filling in the gap, is very faulty, especially when it didn't help Yoda, who was equal to Sidious. Yoda didn't even want to bring Obi Wan, because he knew Obi Wan's death would be nothing but an after thought for Sidious. Hell, Dooku has eliminated Obi Wan easily while fighting Anakin, who is far closer to Dooku in sheer power than Vader is to Palpatine.
Sidious being vastly faster than them, and having far better precognition and reflexes, the chances of him taking out a weak link before they read each other's mind to decide to combine their powers, are far greater.
Though, that would be a possibility if they had prep, plan ahead, and do it at the start, but in up close combat, it would be much more difficult, especially when they, individually, will be on constant guard to protect themselves from any form of attack Sidious will throw. In other words, for them to pull that off, would require very coordinated team work, which I don't see being the case with them.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
Well going by the new Canon, Vader may be even more than 80% of Sidious. It sounds like he'll be his near equal. Will find out when Lords of the Sith comes out, but his feats are already making him seem that way in new Star Wars comics.
And it's not like his back up here are completely useless. I'm assuming Vader's not just going to stand there while Sidious Tk's his team.
You do realize Vader has tons of far greater feats in the EU? I mean, yeah canon is new and we will get more from him in the future, but I'm not seeing how you would draw such a conclusion from that single showing when Sidious's overpowering of Maul and Savage alone is vastly greater, considering their own feats. Not to mention how effortlessly Palaptine strangled Dooku from across the galaxy. Here, I assume we are going by Vader's EU feats, which is a far greater source to go by for the purpose of this thread, otherwise Vader is not much here.
What can Vader do to prevent it, being vastly slower? I mean, Anakin was unable to prevent Dooku from TKing Obi Wan despite there not even being much of a gap between them.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
Last edited by Dominis on Mar 17th, 2015 at 09:53 PM
From a strictly canon perspective? Gotta disagree. Maul and Savage's best TK feat is pushing starships not bad but considerably less impressive then lifting an AT-AT let alone ripping it apart (these thing have armor strong enough to be unscathed by turbolasers...).
DP stated that Darth Vader is seemingly portrayed as Sidious's equal based on that single showing. I wasn't comparing them to Vader. Vader has always been depicted as more powerful than Maul or Savage, and that's including their EU showings. Even if we restrict Sidious and Vader to canon only, Sidious domination over Maul and Savage simultaneously, and Dooku across the galaxy beats Vader's showing by far, as I doubt we'll see Vader replicate such domination over characters of such caliber.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
Secondly I didn't say based solely on that 1 feat. The new novel Lords of the Sith seems to be portraying them as such, (but I admit we should wait until it is released).
Thirdly in terms of Canon feats, Vader probably has the most beastly lifting feat in that comic.
As for my argument it was based on having the back up Vader has here. Remember Mace beat Sidious starting the fight with back up that were fodder to him. Vader's proposed back up in these 2 threads are presumably greater than the "fodder"
No, Sidious casually dominating Maul and Savage simultaneously, and Dooku across the galaxy is still the best in terms of strict canon.
Presumably by who? TOR fans? Again, Malgus isn't much greater than Maul or Savage. Mace's fodder team was irrelevant to Mace's victory over Sidious, so bad example. The Dooku example works much better, other than the fact that Anakin had the power to beat Dooku alone (which isn't the case with Sidious vs Vader), but the large gap between Dooku and Kenobi allowed Dooku to take him out of the fight multiple times.
EDIT: Not sure why you'd even want to use Mace vs Sidious as an example for your argument. If Sidious crushes Vader's team that swiftly, Vader is done for. It would be a stomp.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
Last edited by Dominis on Mar 18th, 2015 at 01:12 AM
Anyone can post or at least give the source to Vader destroying an AT-ST?
__________________ "Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."
Mar 17th, 2015 07:04 AM
