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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » Plagueis vs. Revan


Plagueis vs. Revan
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Lord Stark
Lord of Winterfell

Registered: Jan 2007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Where'd that quote come from?


The back cover of the Plagueis book.


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Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 03:52 AM
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Col. Valerian
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Lol really? Never noticed. What level of canon is that?


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Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 04:07 AM
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Lord Stark
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IDK at least C imo.

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Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 04:15 AM
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Col. Valerian
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I'ma read that shit again.


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Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 04:29 AM
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S_W_LeGenD
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: EARTH


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Stark
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"Plagueis was the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived."

That is a strictly marketing hype or perception of an author, and therefore utterly subjective. I have reservations about its credibility due to following reasons:

Reason 1

Why you should ignore the superlatives on book jackets.

Reason 2

Here is a statement from 'within' the book Star Wars: Darth Plagueis:

If a Sith of equal power had preceded him, then that one had taken his or her secrets to the grave, or had locked them away in holocrons that had been destroyed or had yet to surface.

Reason 3

Star Wars: Darth Plagueis is an utterly outdated source to consider for the matters of Vitiate. Novels also tend to present 'point of view' of characters regarding galactic events within the lore. We can assume that not much is known about Vitiate in galactic history or the archives are incomplete. The great war between the ancient Republic and the Empire may have resulted in significant loss of archives on both sides and future generations may have been forced to rely on assumptions about many ancient developments.

As neutral observers, we can notice that Vitiate have superior showings then Plagueis. Furthermore, Vitiate's most powerful hype not just covers his standing as a Sith in the grand scheme of things but also as a generic practitioner of the dark side and Force-user.

Reason 4

There is apparently a lack of consensus in matters of most powerful characters of the Star Wars among the authors and contributors to the lore at official capacity. For example, author James Luceno believes that Darth Plagueis will defeat Darth Sidious in a duel.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Apr 14th, 2015 at 06:13 AM

Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 06:04 AM
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AncientPower
The Chosen One

Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force


 

Can we please not ignore the fact that:

1. Plagueis wonders if Naga Sadow and Exar Kun had truly been more powerful and then trashed both of their feats immediately after.

2.They mention Vitiate directly as the one who had gotten closest to immortality, but make it clear he was not some all powerful Dark Lord greater than themselves.

3.C-canon, G-canon...blah, blah, blah. You either follow Legends in a discussion or Canon in a discussion. There is no cherry picking in objective debates, the back-cover of the Darth Plagueis novel is sound and valid, as is all the others.


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Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 06:54 AM
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The Merchant
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Been a while since I've read Plagueis, and I do remember him saying that if Sadow and Kun were stronger or that if the Dark side was more powerful during those days, but what did he do that trashed both of their feats? I know he has feats like changing Naboo's climate with his force energies and I do agree that Plaguies is above them. Plagueis also beats Revan as well, much faster combat speeds and much better TK feats.


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Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 07:34 AM
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Sinious
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Registered: Nov 2013
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


For example, author James Luceno believes that Darth Plagueis will defeat Darth Sidious in a duel.


Wow really?

Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 11:25 AM
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AncientPower
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TPM Sidious keep in mind.


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Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 01:13 PM
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Nephthys
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Lol really? Never noticed. What level of canon is that?


N-canon. Blurbs aren't canon.


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Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 01:17 PM
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S_W_LeGenD
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sinious
Wow really?

Yes.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by AncientPower
TPM Sidious keep in mind.

Here:

In truth, Palpatine was well versed in the ways of the Force, having been apprentice to Darth Plagueis the Wise, a Sith Lord who was a master of arcane and unnatural knowledge. In true Sith tradition, Palpatine murdered his Master upon receiving the skill and ability to do so.

Source: The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

&

Sidious served for many decades as the apprentice of Darth Plagueis, learning diligently at the feet of his Master. Once he possessed all of Plagueis' secrets, he retired him.

Source: Insider #88: Heritage of the Sith

&

"My own Master, Darth Plagueis, made the grave error of teaching me too much, at which point he became unnecessary." (Darth Sidious)

&

Darth Sidious: In secret he masters the power of the dark side, while publicly climbing to the highest government office.

Source: Star Wars: Darth Plagueis

---

TPM argument makes no sense to me. Sidious was around 50 years old and master of the dark side during this time.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Apr 14th, 2015 at 01:53 PM

Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 01:42 PM
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Lord Stark
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nephthys
N-canon. Blurbs aren't canon.


According to who?

"he majority of Expanded Universe stories, including novels, comics, video games, and other content originating from other authors. C-canon material could be elevated to G-canon if a subject appeared in a Lucas project."

Whether its the author's opinion or not its as canon as Vitiate's very existence.


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Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 01:44 PM
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S_W_LeGenD
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Stark
According to who?

"he majority of Expanded Universe stories, including novels, comics, video games, and other content originating from other authors. C-canon material could be elevated to G-canon if a subject appeared in a Lucas project."

Whether its the author's opinion or not its as canon as Vitiate's very existence.

Plagueis > Sidious as well because James Luceno said so.

What you seem to miss is that the said author may not have ample knowledge of Emperor Vitiate at the time of his penning the novel; revelations in the novel certainly affirm this argument. SWTOR content have considerably expanded since the release of Star Wars: Darth Plagueis.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Apr 14th, 2015 at 02:06 PM

Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 01:55 PM
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Nephthys
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Stark
According to who?

"he majority of Expanded Universe stories, including novels, comics, video games, and other content originating from other authors. C-canon material could be elevated to G-canon if a subject appeared in a Lucas project."

Whether its the author's opinion or not its as canon as Vitiate's very existence.


The blurbs don't originate from the authors and it's not their opinion. Its just something the people who published the book put on the back to sell it better.


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Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 02:16 PM
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Revanchiste
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Pffffffffff....

Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 02:27 PM
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Sinious
Yo Da Best

Registered: Nov 2013
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by AncientPower
TPM Sidious keep in mind.


Oh I thought he meant ROTS or saber peak Sidious.

Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 03:47 PM
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Lord Stark
Lord of Winterfell

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Winterfell


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Plagueis > Sidious as well because James Luceno said so.

What you seem to miss is that the said author may not have ample knowledge of Emperor Vitiate at the time of his penning the novel; revelations in the novel certainly affirm this argument. SWTOR content have considerably expanded since the release of Star Wars: Darth Plagueis.



Yes its generally agreed that Plagueis>TPM Sidious. Also Luceno never outright says Plagueis>Sidious only that it'd be a toss up.

quote:
The blurbs don't originate from the authors and it's not their opinion. Its just something the people who published the book put on the back to sell it better.


I doubt the author has no say on what's on the back of the book. Luceno's thoughts on Sidious vs. Plagueis confirm this.


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Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 03:59 PM
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Sinious
Yo Da Best

Registered: Nov 2013
Location: Above Anakin


 

Tbf if Plagueis being the strongest ever was actually the case as the blurb suggests, it would've been mentioned in the book at least once. IIRC, it isn't mentioned at all.


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Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 04:03 PM
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ares834
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Registered: Apr 2009
Location: United States


 

The blurbs are hyperbolic and, at times, contradict the book themselves. They are not canon.

Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 04:48 PM
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ares834
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Registered: Apr 2009
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sinious
Tbf if Plagueis being the strongest ever was actually the case as the blurb suggests, it would've been mentioned in the book at least once.


Uh no... Not true at all.

Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 04:48 PM
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