(I just read the first part of your posts there and stopped for obvious reasons)
1) You're missing the point. Yoda had to specialize on a fighting style to make up for his disadvantage is what you're telling me basically. And I'm telling you that in this fight, he didn't even have the disadvantage. Its like A'Sharad Hett vs Kenobi. Kenobi has mastered using the environment against his enemies but he was still in a disadvantageous position against Hett due to environment and had to use his env manipulation technique which is still an advantage for Hett as it wouldn't be the case on neutral flat terrain.
2) We don't even know how he disarmed him. And yes, it is a small detail since it happened under unnatural circumstances.
3) The senate pod was a disadvantage for Sidious. We've already established that the moment everyone realized Sidious couldnt pull his acrobatic stunts. He may have moved the fight there because he wanted to elevate to higher ground for using the other senate pods or perhaps he was simply arrogant enough to assume he could withstand Yoda even in a disadvantageous position. He might've even failed to calculate the advantage Yoda would have there. Stuff like this always happens. Revan for example is considered one of the best strategists in the lore but people criticize him for his way of reacting to Vitiate's FL in their fight. Bad choices by masterminds during under pressure and mid combat could be made all the time. After all Sidious was surprised by Yoda's attack where Yoda was mentally prepared for this fight(another advantage perhaps?).
4) Nah, none of your explanations make sense so I'll stick to "Sidious was disarmed due to bad setting".
You're referring to a single text from the novel yet many other sources (including other parts of the novel) state that Yoda was the one who was depleted. This is why I (generously) keep saying "Just call it a stalemate!"
Why was Yoda on lower levels when Sidious managed to get up so high in the first place? Clearly, Sidious was in control of the fight and managed to elevate himself in an advantageous position as after that point Sidious was raining pods on Yoda while Yoda was merely surviving and dodging the TK attacks. For the same reason, Yoda lost his saber as he had to leap towards Sidious which made him vulnerable to losing his saber so it again further supports Sidious' supremacy in the force).
Considering he was disarmed by Mace that's a poor example. Also if we're talking about neutral ground we also have to consider that the Force isn't going to be ****ed up by Plagueis and Sidious' galactic ritual and Yoda's ability to use the force isn't going to be diminished as it was during the PT. Yoda fought on par with Sidious while the entire bloody galaxy was essentially a DS nexus.
^ If the entire Galaxy is a Dark Side nexus, then surely that is Neutral Ground. I mean where else are they supposed to fight, in another Galaxy? Or in a different time period?
In any case, I didn't see this DS Nexus massively amp Sith Anakin. Also doubt Sith Dooku is massively more powerful than Jedi Dooku who Yoda already named "The Temple's Greatest Student" (In Canon now as well as in Legends).
Although Nai brings up a good point that Yoda's Saber likely wouldn't have gone far/beyond reach on neutral ground. But then neither would Sidious's Saber I guess. Same in the Mace fight.
Last edited by Darth Thor on Oct 5th, 2015 at 02:05 PM
Different time period. Like 20 years before AOTCs or any of the thousands of years the Force wasn't imbalanced. Sidious and Plagueis' weapons crippled the entire order. Basically having Sidious fight Yoda in 19 BBY is like Sidious fighting Yoda with prep. On 'neutral ground' i.e. any of the thousands of years when this wasn't the case, Yoda wins.
1. That's because the Force has been that way Anakin's entire life. That's why Anakin was born, it was the Force itself's response to the Galaxy tilting towards the Dark Side.
2. The ROTS novel explicitly states that he was an "even more powerful Sith Lord".
Sidious is a master of the seven forms of lightsaber combat, stated to be a master of every weapon and every form. The idea that he would be disadvantaged in any area is virtually unfounded. There's no proof Sidious is faster than Yoda either. Point is, Yoda's disarming of Sidious is a legitimate feat. Its a ridiculous double standard that the Sidious wankers are so willing to say Sidious was disadvantaged in the pod, but then refuse to acknowledge the same ****ing reason why Yoda 'lost' the fight.
I never denied any of these dynamics that might've affected the outcome of the fight. My point on the contrary is that they are probably equal. The little details of the fight are being brought up to prove Yoda's supremacy so I'm mentioning those that prove Sidious' as a balancing reaction.
Registered: May 2007
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Every Sidious fanatic I have seen here uses these double standards all the time. It's easy to spot and even easier to point out but you'll hear the excuses all the same from the Sidious apologists pretending it's different.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
Khan would crush him even though that's off topic. Khan doesn't beg for mercy when he experiences some pain or cries like a woman as a cyborg tosses him to his death. Khan alone was a threat to a galactic power while Sidious lost to some rebels despite having an emotive at his beck and call. Want me to create a thread to compare the mental acumen of Khan to Sidious ? Let's finish this.
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
Khan also crash landed and sprinted through a city prior to this fight. Khan beat Spock and Uhura showed up with a weapon and eight blasts. Khan also wasn't armed.
They fought on neutral ground first anyway and it was Sidious's choice to move the fight to the pod. So that's that.
I agree, just pointing out that it goes both ways. If on neutral ground Sidious might have still dropped his Saber, but not necessarily lost it. But same goes for Yoda being disarmed by Sidious's FL.
They never fought on neutral ground. That building was under Empire's control. Sidious already shown, that he wanted to flee if he would have a chance. So Yoda had to be close to him and chase him all the time, instead of trying to find a high ground (like Sidious did).
Sidious needed to survive, Yoda had to kill Sidious. Yoda was in tactical disadvantage and on the enemy's territory. It's can't be called "neutral ground".
Registered: May 2007
Location: Best company on the planet
He was unarmed and had Spock beat. We don't ever ignore the circumstances or the state he was in. Your ignorant answer lacked the context which is a biased answer. Khan is superior to Palpatine in both mental acumen and combat formidability.
Oct 4th, 2015 06:44 PM
