Savage Opress managed to put Count Dooku in a choke-hold during enraged state of mind (early in his training process). Afterwards, Darth Maul took the responsibility for training Savage Opress in the ways of the Sith at some point. Savage Opress grew in power as a consequence and was able to defeat powerful Plo Koon in a confrontation. He was able to affect even Palpatine with his Force abilities. Therefore, you don't have to be Palpatine-TIER to affect Count Dooku with Force powers. And Arcann > Savage Opress.
Didn't say you had to be Palpatine level to effect Dooku simply that you have to be or around that level for a force advantage to make any meaningful difference in a fight with him.
Clear enough?
Were you trying to speak down to me here?
You make it sound like as if the title Darth is meaningless in the Empire; it is not.
Didn't say it was meaningless, just that it didn't mean much considering many of the Darth's we've seen in SWTOR.
Darth: The strongest Sith Lords ascend to the position of Darth. Many take a new name at this point, symbolically embracing their transformation into something greater.
Taken from SWTOR Codex Entry titled "Sith Titles."
And that's fine. I'm not saying she wasn't above the average Sith. I would hope she'd be above them tbpf considering the average Sith is taken out like fodder by pretty much any named character ( Zallow, Satele, Arcann ).
Also, disarming a normal individual by gripping his wrists is different from doing the same to a Force-user (that too a Darth among the Sith). A Force-user uses the Force to augment his physical abilities and resist efforts of an opponent to overwhelm him in any manner.
Sure but given both Arcann and this Darth were force users or otherwise enhanced that doesn't really make a difference. All it means is that Arcann was strong enough to make her open her hand after having caught her wrist with his cybernetics. Martial artists are capable of doing this against much stronger opponents because once you're caught in a hold like that you either try to keep your grip and suffer extreme pain or let your hand go limp. I don't really see how this is a demonstration of strength on par with Grievous's.
That is the official face of Hero of Tython.
Um, I'm still not sure what the point you're trying to make here is...
You are our greatest warrior… and our best hope." (Satele Shan)
"The Hero of Tython. Your martial skills are legendary." (Loyat)
The first quote you provided doesn't refer solely to skill, it refers to his over capabilities as a combatant.
The second while a good accolade for HoT doesn't really place him in the higher tier in regards to skill given their are many such accolades in the SW universe, a good example being the echani.
Legend's condescension is both really funny and a little cringe inducing. The guy actually thinks he's some sort of brilliant thinker. Like, by this point in his life there should have been enough signals that told him otherwise. The self delusion is kind of surreal.
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Last edited by The Ellimist on Apr 30th, 2016 at 07:15 PM
That the fact Yoda didn't use his strength to dominate Dooku doesn't means anything other than that he didn't use his strength to dominate Dooku.
Well, it means that he thought his speed and agility were a more useful tool in defeating the Count then his strength.
Jedi never throw all their cards on the table - especially their trump card. That's one of the main things that separate them from Sith in combat.
Um, what? Jedi do what's necessary to keep the peace. It wouldn't make sense for Yoda to have let Dooku go as he knew that would only lead to a war that would cause the death of untold sentient beings. Sure he didn't want to kill his former apprentice but if we capable of incapacitating the Count in the time that they fought he would have.
Look to Revan in the novel and how instead of telekinetically dominating or charging the small group of Mandalorians, he ducked for cover.
I doubt he was capable of doing so at the time without putting himself at risk tbh. He only ever demonstrated impressive levels of power after donning his mask and regaining his memories of being a Dark Lord.
Look to Luke Skywalker in later works and how, despite being the greatest Jedi in history, did not dominate Lumiya quickly despite wanting to.
Luke was enraged and killed in anger. I believe we can excuse him for not choosing the most logical course of action here.
However, when something they want can only be achieved by utilizing X, and then assuming X is acceptable to their doctrine, they will use it.
Sure but as you just pointed out they're goals were not only achievable by X ( lightsaber combat ) but Y and Z ( Lightning and TK ). Also I don't think Luke was thinking much about his doctrine in his fight with Lumiya.
I point to then Revan unleashing both sides of the Force upon Vitiate or Luke Skywalker pinning Darth Caedus against a chair for this.
Um, Revan after donning the mask was fine with using both the Light and Darkside and it's not like he could afford to hold back against such a superior opponent. There's no reason Luke pinning Caedus to a chair would be outside of his morales either.
Yoda did not need to throw down all his cards against Dooku to win quickly, and so he didn't. He stuck with his main cards and kept the others back.
He needed to overwhelm Dooku in the quickest way possible to keep him from starting a galaxy spanning war. I don't see a reason why Yoda would have been messing around. Even if he was unwilling to kill Dooku if he was capable of incapacitating Dooku either by disarming him with a powerblow or overwhelming him with TK, he would have. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. Since he didn't and this ultimately led to Dooku's escape I assume he was incapable of doing so.
If anything, that further brings the point home: Yoda was humiliating Dooku without even bringing all his powers to bare upon him. Pitiful.
Lol wut? Why would Yoda have not used his powers to incapacitate Dooku if he was capable of doing so? That makes absolutely no sense.
When the instances of Grievous dominating Jedi through physical strength are an actual fraction compared to those where the Jedi handled it fine, your argument that Dooku not being bothered by Grievous' blows is not that relevant.
My argument isn't even based on Grievous overwhelming force users. It's based on Grievous having accomplished X feat and was unable to garner an advantage against Dooku because of his strength so what feat has Arcann accomplished that WOULD allow him to.
There's also the fact that "there had been moments during the extensive combat sessions when even Dooku had been hard-pressed to out-duel the cyborg," bringing forth the possibility that Grievous' strength could have actually challenged Dooku anyway. We don't know.
Given we saw Dooku easily slapping aside Grievous's strikes and Grievous's own performance against Mace ( a peer of Dooku's ) it can be logically deducted that it was the cyborg's skill that allowed him to challenge the Count.
Apr 30th, 2016 06:39 PM
