CosmicComet
Senior Member
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I just checked, and indeed it was Sports Science. That makes that garbage instantly bunk. It's a terrible show that once tried to make the retarded claim that a NFL player's tackle was as fast as lightning. Literally. Let's see, they somehow got a lbs of force reading for GSP's punch at 2859 LBS. Are you phucking serious here? This literally makes it the highest rated punch from an athlete, ever, and by a HUGE amount. Are you serious here? GSP? A middling puncher in even his own weight-class, punches harder, by well over twice as much, really three times as much, as an average Heavyweight Boxer? Seriously now? On other hand for Big Show, apparently he had some 1800 lbs of force figure for his punch given for an episode of Smackdown last year, (if that's even legitimate, that's actually pretty impressive considering his lack of form.) If you believe GSP punches that hard, you'd also have to believe he punches over 1000 lbs of more force than the likes of Rampage and Bas Rutten, over 500 lbs more force than Cain Velasquez, and can kick with more over 700 lbs of more force than Shogun can.
And yet neither his punches nor leg kicks are devastators. He accumulates damage over time. GSP's capability influences his style. He's not a power puncher, so he doesn't try to be. He has no one punch, out cold knock outs in his career, and the closest thing to that is probably him tko'ing Jay Hieron, whom he buzzed with a punch and then swarmed. GSP also sat down on a nice overhand or hook (forget which) against Fitch and all it did was knock Fitch down. Dude does not punch hard. He's an average to above average puncher for his weight class. As for Drago, that was just an erroneous measure on the film's part. I remember not too long ago, pretty much every reading of force, whether from a boxer's punch or an animals bite or what not, was erroneously quoted at lbs per square inch by the media. It's only more recently that I've noticed this being reversed.
Moving on, you didn't read. I said exactly what you're trying to clarify now. I juxtaposed it with technique. And its still incorrect. Form
and Technique cannot be improved indefinitely. There's an optimal form, which is not that difficult to reach with practice...and that's it
on that front. Strength--and concurrently the speed that comes with it, makes up the rest. More on that in a bit.
As for your description of size gains negating speed gains, that's the main issue with body builders, not power lifters. Body Builders
gain more size than they do strength, so proportionately one grows faster than the other. Olypmic/Powerlifters on the other hand? They've actually outdone pure sprinters in short distances. http://www.baspeed.com/sports/weightlifting.htm
"If you look at the best Athletes in the Olympic Games, 90% of them will have one thing in common, ranging from pole vaulters to shot putters, they all have some form of Olympic weightlifting in their program. Even if that ranges from the traditional power clean to the much more complex snatch. These athletes understand the importance and benefits of these movements and the carry over to their sport. Olympic lifts train the athlete to explode and use the maximum possible force. They develop a high Rate of Force (RF), a key point in sports training. Olympic lifters train fast twitch muscle fibers, the fibers that are employed to give you speed, explosiveness and power. It has been shown that the percentage of fast twitch fibers in the body directly contributes to the vertical jump, the more you have the higher you are able to jump (3), and this is the best indicator for athletic ability in American football athletes (4). The jumping and running abilities of Olympic lifters were documented in the Mexico City Olympic Games where they out ran and out jumped the jumpers and sprinters in the vertical jump and 25m sprint! This is an amazing feat considering these men do not train specifically for jumping or running."
The thing about fight coaches dissuading from powerlifting is not true. Plenty of fighters have a strenous powerlifting regimen. The only thing that would be prohibited is gaining too much mass along with that strength(so restricting your caloric intake is the key). You can still make significant strength increases even without necessarily putting on a noticeable or hampering amount of mass--(as eventually there will be diminishing
returns even if you powerlift). More mass will also gas you out more. But as far as powerlifting itself, there's no reason to prohibit
it, other than old, outdated myths from trainers back in the day. Look at Pyrros Dimas, very succesful Olympic lifter, 5'8", 180 lbs or so, yet extremely fast and strong for his size. Look at this casual vertical he makes after a lift; http://www.verticaljumping.com/images/dimas.jpg
Wherever that force statement for tigers came from--all I could find was some random user on yahoo answers saying that--, it can't be correct . Tigers have accounts of breaking the spines of bovines, even accounts of breaking their skulls, with paw swipes. That's far more than a human can hope to manage.
Force is Force. There are different applications of force, but that's not even what I'm driving at, if two tasks require the same muscle groups to use, training in one aspect can only help improve the other. You throwing a punch or you benching weight, are two different actions regarding force but benching weight still uses many of the same muscle groups, therefore it can only be advantageous to your power production--the only caveat is not doing it inefficiently and putting on proportionately more mass than strength, that's when you make negative movements. Going back to the ceiling for technique now, maybe I can make myself clearly, once
you reach that optimal form, what else is there but strength? And at a certain level of strength, form's effect will be negligible. Why?
Because the extra body weight you would put into a blow for all your power will be unremarkable in relation to your actual strength.
Wolverine is already at a level of strength where his body weight is insignificant in comparison to his actual strength, so whether he puts his whole body into a blow or not should make relatively little difference in how much more % of force he produces during a strike. Spiderman takes that to an even greater level. The difference in strength between the two is far greater than the difference between even a woman and a strong powerlifter.
For Wolverine, it would be considered a pretty good feat to swing around a 1 ton dumpster. For Spiderman, it would be considered
pretty good to pick up a 30 ton train car and smash it into the ground. Or even casually flick a train car over on its side with a finger flick. They are in a far bigger disparity than found in people.
Spiderman is even lighter despite his big strength advantage, this realistically SHOULD make him the much stronger puncher due the greater speed he should gain from his excellent proportional strength.
But in the end it doesn't matter, Parker's speed feats aren't much if at all better, and even if he could punch much harder, logan has too many feats of taking on hits from high end bricks for his average to fall so low that Spiderman can ko him before Wolverine rips him apart.
