Your take on cloning and genetics.

Capt_Fantastic> That you remind your mother of your father in the way you walk, talk and move, could’ve been because you still did spend nine years with him, no? Don’t misunderstand me, but perhaps your mother is seeing more of your father in you, than there really are, because she misses him?

Fuoco> How would it be another “you”? Unless the clone was made before you were even born, there would be the age difference between how old you are now, and when the clone was made and born. What if your clone got fat or extremely skinny, died its hair, had an accident and broke its nose?
Fearing a total duplicate in age, manners and looks is missing the point, that that won’t happen.

Crash> No proof of aliens visitors, hence no cloning (you should probably start another thread on that topic like: Your take on conspiracy theories 🙂 ). Einsteins brain was actually smaller than the average, but had more folds. He was curious as a child, and fortunately his dad had time to explain stuff like magnetism and magnets to him.

Originally posted by The Omega

Crash> No proof of aliens visitors, hence no cloning

Where in the name of Jeboody did you get that from?????

Capt_Fantastic> That you remind your mother of your father in the way you walk, talk and move, could’ve been because you still did spend nine years with him, no? Don’t misunderstand me, but perhaps your mother is seeing more of your father in you, than there really are, because she misses him?

Maybe, but what about the other things? The hand writing, the personal habits, the drinking, the smoking, the things we say? I know the first five years are the most formative, but a lot of these things happened long after he left when I was seven. We even pronounce things the same way. People are always asking me if I'm from the north. (not that that's better than being from the south)

I'm just saying it isn't all exposure to our environment. I think we get a lot more from our parents, genetically speaking, than we realize.

Crash> Okay, show me proof of alien visitors, then.

Caprain_Fantastic> Nine years is a long way to spend with another human being. Sure there are things in our genes, potentials if you like. Whether or not they’re actually being used depends on our up-bringing.

Do you know if you clone your cat or dog, it wont be born the same color or size or have the same physical characteristics and personality? It will look like an entirely different animal but will be 100% genetically identical.
Isn't that weird?

Well the personality difference isn't but everything else is😄

Originally posted by The Omega
Crash> Okay, show me proof of alien visitors, then.

Crash> Okay, I toss myself at the ground and beg for forgiveness. I misread
“deos anybody really beleive that theos Reliens really clonned humans”
as
”does anybody really believe that those aliens really cloned humans.”

My mistake. But the link does talk about aliens. There is still no proof of aliens visitors from outer space.

yup. forgivness accepted. but i played a part in that, i misspelled raelians, sorry. Let it be noted.

I would like to hear what others have to say about www.rael.org and there say on "how humanity started" (which HAS to do with clonning)

i saw that movie where aliens were clones of humans in the future, that was a good movie, and you know i had that same appifany that guy rael had until the acid wore off.

ive heard of eternal acid trips and after reading that im sure they exist

They Do. Just look At Ozzy Osborn.........

that man is smart though, what better way to become a number one author than to convince a million people into a new belief. everytime he writes a book thats a guarenteed million copies sold

ozzy has just became a drug thats all lol

If you want to see a film that gives perpsective on this kind of thing, try GATTACA. The only problem with that film being that the guy SHOULD have died at the end. You are emant to think it is discriminatory against him that he would not be allowed on the space programme because he has a genetic heart coniditon. Huh? They wouldn't let anyone TODAY on a spaceship with a weak heart! That's not because they are being evil, but because it will most likely kill you on take off!

But the rest of it is rather good- though it does depend on us being able to custom design babies, and the inevitable two-tier system in society that results.

It also, incidentally, has one of my favourite wuick conversation exchanges ever, when the policeman is interviewing the guy in charge of the GATTACA institute, with all the highly fit genetically desinged people exercising in the background. The policeman asks what the exercises are for, and the head (played by Gore Vidal) says he has them all tested regularly.

"But if they are all so superior, why do you need to test them?"
"Simply to make sure they are living up to their potential."
"Or exceeding it?"
"No-one exceeds their potential."
"And if they did?"
"That would simply mean that we did not accurately gauge their potential."

Which is not only a neat reminder of what the word potential MEANS- it is something you can NEVER exceed because your potential, by definition, is ALL you can do- but it is part of the lesson of the film that no matter how accurately you can map someone's skills and body genetically, you will never accurately assess what they can do.

But that is still no excuse for a man with a dodgy heart going on a space flight...

Anyway, the big dig deal in GATTACA is the fact that babies can be designed to be strong, healthy, clever, well-behaved (and in a sequence cut from the film, heterosexual- removed because of the dodginess of whrther it is genetic (no debates on that plase, that is just why they removed it))- but it COSTS, so only the rich can have babies like that.

So it might be very important that genetic development is always public sector, but that seems unlikely. We may otherwise end up in a world like GATTACAs- which is not a BAD world, it is full of bright, strong, healthy, ambitious people making great strides forwards for the human race; just that it is also full of an underclass of genetically 'poor' people whom no-one will give a decent job to.

Gattaca is pretty cool. But the thing with our hero (whose name eludes me), wasn’t that he DID have a heart problem. Just that there was a chance he would develop one before the age of 30.
He hadn’t. That (just like the conversation Ush mentions) is pretty interesting in light of the cloning/genetics debate. Our genes may hold potentials for all kinds of things. That is absolutely no guarantee that we’ll ever develop said potential. And we may also develop skills and abilities, that you did not inherent from anyone.

That, perhaps, is my problem with the genetics debate. That we’ll end up being classified according to “maybes” and “perhaps”. Some scientists are in search of the “homosexual gene”, the “criminal” gene, the “genius” gene. Given the chance, and supposing I’d want kinds, I wouldn’t personally mind gene-therapy to get the very best from me and my partner in the child. But how do we know, that nature isn’t balanced in a sneakier kind of way than we know? Great scientist were and are often quite eccentric. The famous quantum physicist Niels Bohr, were for example so absent-minded, that when he biked to and from the university and reached a roundabout, he’d have to stop and check if his lunch-box was empty or not.

How can anyone say that our personality is in our genes, when we’re 98% genetically like chimpanzees?

Actually, in GATTACA they said he WOULD have a heart problem. If we thereofre say he did not, this could only be because that the genetic profiling was erroneous. I really don;t think that suited the film, when everything ELSE about the genetic profiling was 100% right- that was what the film was exploring, after all.

Ush> That’s possible. It’s been a while since I saw Gattaca. I just seemed to remember the doctors saying he had a high probability of developing the heart problem. If they did say our hero had a 100% probability, then the film should either have made him really die of the heart-failure OR showed more of the erroneous gene-profiling.

In any case, regardless of the means via which the problem was discovered, we wouldn;t put people with even POTENTIAL heart problems on the space programme in the modern day. It is just too big a risk.

man the whole thing with him not developing a heart disease was just to get the point across that anyhting is possible and that you make your own destiny

... which only works if it makesout the genetic profiling is WRONG, which undermines the set-up of the society. None of us have much to fear from genetic profiling if it doesn't work, do we? If it was unreliable then that system would not exist.

No, the fear of the whole genetic thing is based around what if it does, indeed, tell us the truth?