The Official Shipping Debate Thread [merged]

not yet finished

Harry and Hermione are developing together
JKR makes a special point of showing Harry and Hermione developing together as leaders of the students and having an influence in the wizarding world.
a) It is significant that Hermione keeps pace with Harry in OoTP. Ron doesn't.
- Hermione thinks up the DA group and Harry teaches the students
- Hermione invents a system whereby Harry can tell students when the meetings are and a jinx to protect them
- Hermione gets Harry's story to the public via Rita
- Hermione starts saying Voldemort's name. Only Dumbledore, Lupin, Harry and Hermione now do so.
- Harry and Hermione get rid of Umbridge via the centaurs
b) JKR makes Hermione the one to make a practical difference to how Harry feels during the year.
- he gets great enjoyment out of teaching the students and it was her idea
- he gets his story, because of her efforts, across to the public and the students and it changes what people think of him
- she's the main person responsible for getting rid of Umbridge, who made Harry's life a misery
- she's the one who gets him out of the room at Christmas after Sirius, Ron, Ginny and the other Weasleys had proved ineffectual
c) JKR steps up Harry and Hermione's development together. They had one major adventure together in PoA, and a significant period of time together in GoF. In OoTP, they have two forest adventures together and fight alongside each other in the DoM.
Now to answer JKR's question, "who does Hermione love?" I say she loves both. But she loves Ron only as a friend while she has intense romantic feelings for Harry. That's the only conclusion I can draw from the HP series

I really don't agree with any of that. First of all, what the heck do you mean by leaders of the students. Hermione only did that stuff for Dumbledore's Army because Harry didn't know how to do any of that. she was helping him because she's his friend. Hermione and Ron are both prefects. And I remember in one point of the book, Hermione turned to ron for some support, and it said that Harry thought this seemed an awful lot like back at the Grimmauld place when Mrs. Weasley turned to Mr. Weasley for support. Then Harry had that unusual dream before he dreamt of the hallway, that at one point in the dream before, he saw Ron and Hermione both with crowns on their head. (King and Queen, Maybe?) So really I think even Harry's starting to believe Ron likes Hermione. and I think Harry doesn't have any feelings more than him and Hermione being friends. And maybe Hermione's torn between the two. and perhaps she went to the yule ball with Viktor (Though she probably didn't know it.) to see which one of them would actually get jealous. Hermione just might be torn between the two of them and ron's probably the only one who likes her back.

Originally posted by #1Rupert_Lover
I really don't agree with any of that.

Originally posted by #1Rupert_Lover
Hermione only did that stuff for Dumbledore's Army because Harry didn't know how to do any of that. she was helping him because she's his friend

Originally posted by #1Rupert_Lover
And I remember in one point of the book, Hermione turned to ron for some support, and it said that Harry thought this seemed an awful lot like back at the Grimmauld place when Mrs. Weasley turned to Mr. Weasley for support

Originally posted by #1Rupert_Lover
Then Harry had that unusual dream before he dreamt of the hallway, that at one point in the dream before, he saw Ron and Hermione both with crowns on their head. (King and Queen, Maybe?)

Originally posted by #1Rupert_Lover
So really I think even Harry's starting to believe Ron likes Hermione

Aren't all these Harry Hermione shippers funny. Very, very silly - but I like laughing at them.

i think that hermione is confused. i think that she can't make up her mind, there is a lot more blatant moves she makes towards ron, but there are some more subtle ones she makes towards harry. in the books, we always see ron trying to impress her, and seems put down if she ignores him ( i don't have page numbers), but it seems (to me at least) that hermione acts that way towards harry. in gof, when she finds the kitchens, she comes running up to harry to tell him and drag him away, and there is another moment (again, don't have page numbers) when she is talking about something (i think) and harry doesn't show great interest and she looks put down...i don't know, it's my own interpretation, please don't kill me. jkr has said numerous times that harry and hermione's relationship is 'still' a platonic friendship, i know i'm reading way too much into this, but if she uses the word still, does that possibly imply that their relationship will eventually change.

i think that everyone has made valid points, and in time we will find out who was right. and i think that i will hurt something if hermione doesn't end up with either...that would just be crappy

Originally posted by muse5
i think that hermione is confused. i think that she can't make up her mind, there is a lot more blatant moves she makes towards ron, but there are some more subtle ones she makes towards harry. in the books, we always see ron trying to impress her, and seems put down if she ignores him ( i don't have page numbers), but it seems (to me at least) that hermione acts that way towards harry. in gof, when she finds the kitchens, she comes running up to harry to tell him and drag him away, and there is another moment (again, don't have page numbers) when she is talking about something (i think) and harry doesn't show great interest and she looks put down...i don't know, it's my own interpretation, please don't kill me. jkr has said numerous times that harry and hermione's relationship is 'still' a platonic friendship, i know i'm reading way too much into this, but if she uses the word still, does that possibly imply that their relationship will eventually change.

i think that everyone has made valid points, and in time we will find out who was right. and i think that i will hurt something if hermione doesn't end up with either...that would just be crappy

I agree, I do think she's confused. and Yeah, I do agree that Hermione does care about Harry. But if you think about it, she equally cares about Ron just as much. in the fifth book, after Gryffindor's Quidditch match, when Ron didn't show up in the common room, she asked Harry where Ron was. then when Ron got back to the common room, Hermione anxiously sprang from her seat and seemed really worried about him. and if you didn't notice, Whenever Ron has a crush on somebody, (like Fleur) She gets a little jealous about them, and she was furious when she saw Fleur kiss Ron. Whenever Harry has a crush (like Cho of course) she doesn't mind at all. as a matter of fact, she enjoys hearing how a date went, Like what a good friend usually does. True, jealousy is a bad thing, but when you know someone has a crush on someone else likes them, the person who likes them is highly likely to get jealous. and since both Ron and Hermione are both jealous of each of their crushes, it's pretty obvious that they both like eachother, but both of them just probably don't realize it. and JK Rowling said that Harry and hermione were very platonic friends. and then Rowling even said in an interview that there is something going on between Ron and Hermione. Harry and Hermione are really only close friends.

originally posted by dark1365
Yeah, bit rich coming from someone whose name is "#1 Rupert Lover".

Okay. now that was just rude. not even TS, who usually disagrees with me on everything except R/Hr theory, insulted me about calling myself that.

originally posted by dark1365
If that were the case, she wouldn't have pleaded with Harry to have other people sign into DA.

Harry didn't even know she did that until after she invited all of them. she was only being a friend by helping him.

originally posted by dark1365
When was that?

It was some point in the fifth book, I forget when in the book it happens, but I know it was one of the times hermione was arguing with Fred and George about the candies they made.

originally posted by dark1365
I answer this question with one of your own sayings:"Hermione and Ron are both prefects".

But with the whole 'weasley is our king' thing, it could also mean something else.

originally posted by dark1365
Not true. Remember, the books are from third person Harry's view. and he makes no mention of them liking each other.

How many times do I have to show this Quote?:

"Harry didn't say anything. He liked being on speaking terms with Ron too much to speak his mind right now-- but he somehow thought that Hermione got the point much better than Ron did."

Fourth book, after hermione says that Ron should have asked her first, rather than a last resort. And that probably means by hermione getting the point better than Ron, that that means Harry agreed with hermione about Ron wanting to go to the Yule ball with her.

^
hey, you have very good points as well, and the scenes that you described are what i had called 'blatant moves towards ron.' i really don't think i worded myself that well.

Don't worry. I know. I was actually trying to make those points to the other people. I quoted it so you know I was talking about you when I said I understood what you meant by Hermione being a little confused. the rest I felt like stating myself. 🙂

right on

🙂

Ok, so I know im probably not going to be convincing the likes of RupertLover or TheSun with this, but I feel it's necessary in order to give my argument more substance. So here they are, my OOTP quotes (GOF may be coming in the future). By the way Hermione7 - you posted a great argument before, i totally agree with you!

(all page #'s are from the US version)

"Followed by an even louder shriek, and his vision was compleatly obscured by a large quanitiy of very bushy hair - Hermione had thrown herself into him in a hug that nearly knocked him flat" - pg 62
(the fact that she THROWS herself into him is very important, i believe it shows the extreme emotion that is in their relationship).

"'Whats the matter?' asked hermione" - 221 (if you read through OOTP hermione is constantly doing this, always concerned for harry and asking whats wrong. you may take this for friendship, which it partly is, but the fact that shes always doing it is a little suspicious).

"well im glad you listen to Hermione Granger at any rate" - pg 249
(it's professor McG who says this. This relates to that part of harrys brain that always talks in hermiones voice, more on that later)

"Oh for heavens sake harry, you can do better then HER" - ph 262 (reffering to cho..... HM... interesting yes? As a girl i know what it's like to have the boy you like daiting or even liking someone else. the basic attitude that i get in those situations is expressed here, the jealously and dissapointment in them)

"'Listen, you can help me if you like, it's quite fun, I'm getting better, I can do patterens and bobbles and all sorts of things now'
Harry looked into her face, which was shining with glee - and he trailed off to the boys stairs, leaving her looking slightly dissapointed behind him"
(Hermione wanting to get attention from harry, dissapointed when she doesnt get it)

"He imigined trying to conceal from Hermione that he had recieved T's in all his OWLS and immediately resolved to work harder from now on" - pg 311
(not wanting to dissapoint hermione, soo key)

"'We need to know what it's r-really like... facing him...facing V-Voldemort'. It was the first time she had ever said Voldemorts name, and it was this, more then anything else, that calmed Harry". - pg 328

"Not for the first time, a voice very much like Hermione's wispered in his ear :reckless" - pg 387 (In the begining of the series harry acted only as he wanted to, impulsivly, not taking much into account what hermione, or anyone else, thought. Now it is clear that his mind set is changing, and hermione is playing a vital role in his unconcious thought process).

"of course you're not" - pg 458 (this is hermione's response when ron asks harry if he's really that bad of a kisser)

"And then she [Cho] turned into Hermione" - pg 462 (i believe that, like many of Harry's dreams, this is foreshadowing, it's showing the change in feelings and interests shifting from cho to hermione)

"'I know you're in there' said hermiones voice. 'will you please come out? I want to talk to you'. 'what are you doing here?' harry asked her, pulling open the door as buckbeak resumed his scratching". - pg 498
(There are 2 very signifigant things here, one being that everyone in the house, including ron and ginny, had tried to get harry out of the room and couldnt, only hermione could. the other is that harry is locked on the room with buckbeak, the greek symbol for love, and is mentioned right as hermione successfully gets harry to come out.)

"Oh you'll talk to Hermione Granger!" - pg 562 (Cho being jealous of the closeness that Harry and hermione share, maybe seeing something there that they dont yet?)

"'And it might have been a good idea to mention how ugly you think I am too' Hermione added as an afterthought. 'But I dont think you're ugly' said harry bemused. Hermione laughed" - pg 572

"Hermione kept asking him what was wrong whenever he fell silent" - pg 636

"'that was a really horrible trick of hermione grangers' said cho. ' I think it was a brilliant idea' said Harry coldly. 'Oh yes, I forgot - ofcourse if it was darling hermione's idea'". - pg 637 (again, the jealously of the girlfriend, harry defending hermione, and cho possibly seeing something they dont yet).

"He also suspected that part of his mind, the part that often spoke in hermione's voice, now felt guilty" - pg 682 (again, as i stated before, she is becoming part of his unconcious mind, and is always in his thoughts).

"Hermione walked right into him and was knocked over backward. Harry caught her just before she hit the forrest floor" - pg 688 (as hermione7 started before, here is that protectiveness of hermione that harry innatley has)

"Grawps hand had shot out of nowhere toward hermione - harry seized her and pulled her backward behind the tree"
"'Bad boy grawpy' harry heard hagrid yelling, as hermione clung to harry behind the tree, shaking and wimpering"
- pg 696 (again protective, and hermione feeling safe with harry)

"Harry laughed just as Hermione came running up behind them. He stopped at once, in case it annoyed her" - pg 718

"Even through his anger and impatience Harry recognized Hermione's offer to accompany him into umbridges office as a sign on solidarity and loyality" - pg 737 (I just love that quote, i think it's obvious why)

"Harry grabbed Hermione and pulled her to the ground" - pg 755

"Hermione had been dropped too, and Harry hurried toward her" - pg 757

"Hermione gripped his arm tightly" - pg 758

"Harry and Hemrione moved INSTINCTIVELY together, peering through thr trees" - pg 760 (Key word there, INSTINCTIVELY!! They both know to go to eachother when they need support, protection, or comfort. they didnt even have to think about it, it was instinctual...natural..)

"Hermione grabbed Harry's arm as though frightened the floor might move too, but it did not" - pg 770

"He seized a handful of hermione's robes and dragged her forward one arm over his head as chuncks of shelf and shards of glass thundered down upon them" - pg 787

"and now pointed his own wand at hermione, who had crawled out from under the desk to get better aim. 'avada - ' Harry launched himself across the floor and grabbed the death eater around thr knee, causing him to topple" - pg 789

"He had a hand on Hermione's shoulder, which was still warm, yet did not dare to look at her properly. 'Dont let her be dead, dont let her be dead, it's my fault if shes dead...' 'Hermione' harry said, shaking her, 'hermione wake up...' 'Dats a pulse harry, I'b sure ib is' Such a powerful wave of relief swept through harry for a moment he felt light headed" - pg 795 (This shows how much hermuione means to harry, how he stops in the middle of a battle, while his other friends are in trouble as well, and goes to hermione, only caring if she's ok).

PHEW!! well thats all my best ones from OOTP, im sure you guys are going to write back saying how you dont believe me or agree with any of these, but whatever, this is actual textual evidence, so it doesnt get much more solid then this.

You know, Lily started liking James in 6th year, come to think of it.
So that answers whenever anyone asks why they haven't started dating earlier. The times that they show signs (from about 4th year on up) indicate that the same time placement of romance will happen again!
Any comments on such a theory?

*forgive the double post*

KKdave, the only thing is is that Harry and Hermione getting together simply contradicts everything that JK ever said!!
It's a confusing time, and surely our questions are going to be answered on July 16th. (for a brief theory on such an answer, see my previous post)

"Followed by an even louder shriek, and his vision was compleatly obscured by a large quanitiy of very bushy hair - Hermione had thrown herself into him in a hug that nearly knocked him flat" - pg 62

"'Whats the matter?' asked hermione" - 221 (if you read through OOTP hermione is constantly doing this, always concerned for harry and asking whats wrong. you may take this for friendship, which it partly is, but the fact that shes always doing it is a little suspicious).

"well im glad you listen to Hermione Granger at any rate" - pg 249
(it's professor McG who says this. This relates to that part of harrys brain that always talks in hermiones voice, more on that later)

third of all, Mcgonagall said that because harry had stated what umbridge's speech meant because he remembered hermione telling him that. I remember everything my friends tell me!

""Oh for heavens sake harry, you can do better then HER" - ph 262 (reffering to cho..... HM... interesting yes? As a girl i know what it's like to have the boy you like daiting or even liking someone else. the basic attitude that i get in those situations is expressed here, the jealously and dissapointment in them)

"'Listen, you can help me if you like, it's quite fun, I'm getting better, I can do patterens and bobbles and all sorts of things now'
Harry looked into her face, which was shining with glee - and he trailed off to the boys stairs, leaving her looking slightly dissapointed behind him"
(Hermione wanting to get attention from harry, dissapointed when she doesnt get it)

this quote? easy. Hermione was trying to cheer harry up. I try to cheer my friends up all the time, and when it doesn't work, I get upset as well. it's not a big deal.

"He imigined trying to conceal from Hermione that he had recieved T's in all his OWLS and immediately resolved to work harder from now on" - pg 311
(not wanting to dissapoint hermione, soo key)

Give me a break. He just doesn't want hermione to know he got a bad grade. she's was always bickering about how he and Ron should get their work done, and letting her see that would make her bicker even more.

"'We need to know what it's r-really like... facing him...facing V-Voldemort'. It was the first time she had ever said Voldemorts name, and it was this, more then anything else, that calmed Harry". - pg 328

First of all, everyone knows that Harry hates hearing people shudder at the name. and harry was angry at the time, so hermione probably thought that maybe she should calm him down by for once, saying the name. Because that would make him feel a little bit better because it made him feel that he wasn't the only one saying the real name.

"Not for the first time, a voice very much like Hermione's wispered in his ear :reckless" - pg 387 (In the begining of the series harry acted only as he wanted to, impulsivly, not taking much into account what hermione, or anyone else, thought. Now it is clear that his mind set is changing, and hermione is playing a vital role in his unconcious thought process).

if you didn't notice, Hermione's always sticking words into people's heads. in the sorceror's (Philosopher's) stone (The book, not the movie) When harry and ron were fighting the troll, Ron took out his wand and did the first spell that came into his head. and it turned out to be the spell that Ron made fun of her for, and made her cry (By the way, Even that was a clue that hermione likes ron) so really, ron's probably already got hermione's words stuck in his head from the start (Remember, the Harry Potter books are Third person narrative. so we really never know what ron's usually thinking.

"of course you're not" - pg 458 (this is hermione's response when ron asks harry if he's really that bad of a kisser)

You forgot that Ron asks, "How would you know?" in a sharp tone, and Hermione started to explain how cho hasn't stopped crying all year because of how she felt. so that is more like a R/Hr theory quote with Ron's sharp tone and all.

"And then she [Cho] turned into Hermione" - pg 462 (i believe that, like many of Harry's dreams, this is foreshadowing, it's showing the change in feelings and interests shifting from cho to hermione)

Like I also said before, He also dreamt Ron and hermione with crowns on their head, and that could mean anything. so could that.

"'I know you're in there' said hermiones voice. 'will you please come out? I want to talk to you'. 'what are you doing here?' harry asked her, pulling open the door as buckbeak resumed his scratching". - pg 498
(There are 2 very signifigant things here, one being that everyone in the house, including ron and ginny, had tried to get harry out of the room and couldnt, only hermione could. the other is that harry is locked on the room with buckbeak, the greek symbol for love, and is mentioned right as hermione successfully gets harry to come out.)

Well now, since harry knew Ron and Ginny were already there, it's pretty obvious that he was a little confused to hear Hermione's voice. which only means he wanted to know what the heck hermione was doing there.

"Oh you'll talk to Hermione Granger!" - pg 562 (Cho being jealous of the closeness that Harry and hermione share, maybe seeing something there that they dont yet?)

Now seriously. everyone had read that article about Hermione and Harry a year before. And knowing that fact, Cho probably thought there was something going on between the two of them.

"'And it might have been a good idea to mention how ugly you think I am too' Hermione added as an afterthought. 'But I dont think you're ugly' said harry bemused. Hermione laughed" - pg 572

You're forgetting more to that quote. here's the rest to it:

"Harry, you're worse than Ron.... Well, no, you're not," she sighed, as Ron himself came stumping into the Hall splattered with mud and looking grumpy.

She said he was worse than RON then said that he actually wasn't, which means ron wouldn't want to call hermione ugly, either. and if you didn't notice, she does seem to bring Ron up in conversations a lot.

"Hermione kept asking him what was wrong whenever he fell silent" - pg 636

again Hermione always asks that question when she knows something's wrong.

"'that was a really horrible trick of hermione grangers' said cho. ' I think it was a brilliant idea' said Harry coldly. 'Oh yes, I forgot - ofcourse if it was darling hermione's idea'". - pg 637 (again, the jealously of the girlfriend, harry defending hermione, and cho possibly seeing something they dont yet).

again, it was the article, and harry defended hermione because, again, he's her friend. that's what friends do.

"He also suspected that part of his mind, the part that often spoke in hermione's voice, now felt guilty" - pg 682 (again, as i stated before, she is becoming part of his unconcious mind, and is always in his thoughts).

again, Ron probably has stuff like that going on in his head, too.

"Hermione walked right into him and was knocked over backward. Harry caught her just before she hit the forrest floor" - pg 688 (as hermione7 started before, here is that protectiveness of hermione that harry innatley has)

"Grawps hand had shot out of nowhere toward hermione - harry seized her and pulled her backward behind the tree"
"'Bad boy grawpy' harry heard hagrid yelling, as hermione clung to harry behind the tree, shaking and wimpering"
- pg 696 (again protective, and hermione feeling safe with harry)

If you've ever noticed, Ron also has a protectiveness towards hermione too. (One thing in particular is whenever Malfoy calls Hermione a mudblood. and I could name a lot more moments)

"Harry laughed just as Hermione came running up behind them. He stopped at once, in case it annoyed her" - pg 718

Well you wouldn't want to annoy a friend

(Continued on next post)

"Even through his anger and impatience Harry recognized Hermione's offer to accompany him into umbridges office as a sign on solidarity and loyality" - pg 737 (I just love that quote, i think it's obvious why)

Those are the things that make up a normal old friendship.

"Harry grabbed Hermione and pulled her to the ground" - pg 755

"Hermione had been dropped too, and Harry hurried toward her" - pg 757

"Hermione gripped his arm tightly" - pg 758

Well when they need to help eachother out, they do!

"Harry and Hemrione moved INSTINCTIVELY together, peering through thr trees" - pg 760 (Key word there, INSTINCTIVELY!! They both know to go to eachother when they need support, protection, or comfort. they didnt even have to think about it, it was instinctual...natural..)

They're friends For heaven's sake! Of course it'd be instinctive!

"Hermione grabbed Harry's arm as though frightened the floor might move too, but it did not" - pg 770

Well I'd grab onto anyone's arm if I thought the floor was moving.

"He seized a handful of hermione's robes and dragged her forward one arm over his head as chuncks of shelf and shards of glass thundered down upon them" - pg 787

"He had a hand on Hermione's shoulder, which was still warm, yet did not dare to look at her properly. 'Dont let her be dead, dont let her be dead, it's my fault if shes dead...' 'Hermione' harry said, shaking her, 'hermione wake up...' 'Dats a pulse harry, I'b sure ib is' Such a powerful wave of relief swept through harry for a moment he felt light headed" - pg 795 (This shows how much hermuione means to harry, how he stops in the middle of a battle, while his other friends are in trouble as well, and goes to hermione, only caring if she's ok).

Well wouldn't you be scared if you thought a friend was dead?

Lol, couldn't have torn that post apart better myself RGL.

Why, thank you, TS. 😄

Originally posted by Ananbelle
You know, Lily started liking James in 6th year, come to think of it.
So that answers whenever anyone asks why they haven't started dating earlier. The times that they show signs (from about 4th year on up) indicate that the same time placement of romance will happen again!
Any comments on such a theory?

Originally posted by Ananbelle
*forgive the double post*

KKdave, the only thing is is that Harry and Hermione getting together simply contradicts everything that JK ever said!!
It's a confusing time, and surely our questions are going to be answered on July 16th. (for a brief theory on such an answer, see my previous post)

I completely agree with you. and if I'm not mistaken, Didn't Lily and James not get along real well in Hogwarts?

Yeah, but I really don't blame Lily for not liking James at first. . . . he was a prat from what we saw.

You know what rupert lover and thesun, you guys are both being just plain rude...i took the time to post that, you dont have to totally knock me down like that! 🙁 we all have our theories, mine just happens to directly contradict yours, you dont have to fly off the handle at anyone who thinks differently then you do.

And a troublemaker...
as is Ron.....and Hermione obviously didn't like Ron at first, he made her cry! But now she's getting closer to him, and lightening up.
I think I should quote everything in the books and movies and interviews that shows that they should get together... 🙂 sounds like fun 🙂