Juggernaut or The Hulk?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Get over it man, for Christ's sake. We all know you're a member of the Juggernaut fan club and we all know that in your little heart of hearts you "know" your "unstoppable" dude is unbeatable by The Hulk. But I do extend my hand to join us in comic reality someday. Where facts and powers matter more than opinion. Until then, enjoy the one of a kind, unique to you comics where Juggernaut wins all the time.

-AC

well prove me wrong with your "facts" then. because it's obvious that posts like these are just full of them.

'anything hulk can do, juggernaut could do to. the probability of hulk defeating juggernaut is 0%.'

Did we just go back to square one?

"well prove me wrong with your "facts" then. because it's obvious that posts like these are just full of them."

Ok here we go. Last time. For you, coz you're special.

Juggernaut:

Ultra Durable, Ultra Strong. You would like to think he is unstoppable but many many times multiple people have gave evidence to show he has been stopped before. He isn't smart. He doesn't require air, water or food. So stopping for sustinence isn't countable.

Hulk:

Ultra durable, super healing, very very fast, high regenerative capabilities, immune to psychic probing and attacks, immune to diseases and poisons, unlimited strength. Yes he does have unlimited strength. You are saying, because he hasn't shown a limit, doesn't mean he doesn't have one. Which is a faulty argument by default as in theory he was created to have unlimited strength. Hence the adage "The madder Hulk get the stronger Hulk gets."

Now you tell me, what Juggernaut could do to Hulk physically, that Hulk couldn't take or hasn't taken. Because he has taken stuff far worse than Juggernaut has in his power to dish out. He is faster than Juggernaut and arguably more durable. The only plus Juggernaut has is no sustinence. But who says the battle would go on long enough for Hulk to need sustinence? Hulk has been transformed for days and days on end before, during Secret Wars. Now true enough, Juggernaut is always like that. However, Hulk unleashing his ever growing rage on Juggernaut over a multiple day battle is something Juggernaut simple could not take. He couldn't hide behind the protection of his helmet for long.

If you need more facts we only need look at past encounters. Hulk has only ever been taken advantage of when Juggernaut dressed as a lumberjack and Hulk didn't fight back. Everytime he has he has gotten the best out of the fights. Juggernaut tried to fight Onslaught and got swiftly send on a round trip across the states. When all Earth's forces failed who did they call on to take Onslaught down? Hulk.

I await another one of your "he's invulnerable, unstoppable" posts. But you asked for facts and those are the facts. Simple.

-AC

Everytime he has he has gotten the best out of the fights. Juggernaut tried to fight Onslaught and got swiftly send on a round trip across the states. When all Earth's forces failed who did they call on to take Onslaught down? Hulk.

-AC

Wow, not true.

"When all Earth's forces failed who did they call on to take Onslaught down? Hulk."

You make it seem like "all Earth's forces" came together and decided that Onslaught was just too strong for them, so let's call Hulk. Anybody got his number ?

Primo : it was not all Earth's forces. I could make a nice list of all the heroes who weren't there.

Secundo : Hulk only could fight Onslaught because others created a hole in his forcefield

Tertio : Hulk had help from Jane Grey, who turned him in savage Hulk, because Hulk knew that without that help, he could have ended up dead.

Quatro : one could argue about that fight : it was not as if Hulk had a walk in the park (very very far from it) and it seemed Onslaught wanted his armor cracked.

(a little bit of topic, my apologies).

The whole wanting his armour cracked seems a bit redundant to me. Surely such a powerful being had better ways of...erm, removing his own clothing.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
The whole wanting his armour cracked seems a bit redundant to me. Surely such a powerful being had better ways of...erm, removing his own clothing.

Maybe, could be... I didn't write the story 🙂. But it was a part of his evolution.

"Primo : it was not all Earth's forces. I could make a nice list of all the heroes who weren't there."

I said forces, not weasels. Forces meaning able to do something significant.

And I don't recall Onslaught's forcefield changing, just Hulk's mind. It wasn't because he would have ended up dead it was coz everyone else knew he was the only man to do it. Besides, Hulk of recent can reach savage Hulk strengh alone if he gets mad enough.

-AC

i dont know why people hate on the Hulk for being the only one who could go toe to toe with Onslaught...dont make stupid excuses "onslaught wanted his armor cracked"...Doom made a good point by saying anyone that powerful could have had a better way to remove his clothing...no one could get close to standing up to onslaught....and he very easily dispatched Juggernaut...once again proving Hulk is superior and EARTH'S MIGHTIEST MORTAL!!!

I still have yet to see an incarnation of the Hulk actually STOP Juggernaut.

I bet it will never happen.

remember there is a difference between unbeatable and unstoppable

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It wasn't because he would have ended up dead it was coz everyone else knew he was the only man to do it.

-AC

Sorry, but you're wrong. Hulk is a very stubborn and very proud character, the type who doesn't need help from anybody.

But still, when he knew he had to fight Onslaught, he swallowed his pride (very exceptional for Hulk) and asked Jean Grey to turn off his intellect so he could get really strong. "It's the only way" he said, or something like that.

So without the help of Jean Grey, Hulk would never have hold his own against Onslaught. He knew it, and I know it.

And where exactly in the comic does "everyone else knew Hulk was the only man to do it ?". Can't remember everybody said something like that...

Besides, Hulk of recent can reach savage Hulk strengh alone if he gets mad enough.

Sure, but he has to be still alive to get this strong, doesn't he ? He needs some time. A Hulk killed by Onslaught before getting any stronger won't do much damage. That is exactly the reason why he asked Jean Grey to speed things up a bit.

Originally posted by Wynndar
i dont know why people hate on the Hulk for being the only one who could go toe to toe with Onslaught...dont make stupid excuses "onslaught wanted his armor cracked"...Doom made a good point by saying anyone that powerful could have had a better way to remove his clothing...no one could get close to standing up to onslaught....and he very easily dispatched Juggernaut...once again proving Hulk is superior and EARTH'S MIGHTIEST MORTAL!!!

Come on, why on earth should I hate Hulk ? He's one of my favorites !!

"remember there is a difference between unbeatable and unstoppable"

Tell that to the Juggernaut Club.

"And where exactly in the comic does "everyone else knew Hulk was the only man to do it ?". Can't remember everybody said something like that..."

Name another that had within him the power to take Onslaught out. While the incarnation Savage Hulk was needed, it was still one of The Hulk's pure incarnations. All Jean did was shut off the Intellect. No different from when he had no intellect the first time he was Savage. No one that was involved or probably not involved could have done it but Hulk.

-AC

Well my point was has any incarnation of Hulk EVER stood in front of Juggernaut and forfully halted his progress?

Hulk beating Juggernaut is a plenty valid argument, but Hulk stopping Juggernaut? Im pretty sure hasnt been done and it cant be done . no physical force on >>earth<< has what it takes to stop him once he is moving forward.

...except Onsluaght he more or les just put the fear of god into him

THE FEAR OF GOD I SAY!!!

Name another that had within him the power to take Onslaught out.

All Jean did was shut off the Intellect. No different from when he had no intellect the first time he was Savage. No one that was involved or probably not involved could have done it but Hulk.

But you do not understand it. Turning off the intellect of Hulk was extremely important !! Again, without that, he wouldn't have made it. He had no choice ! (Hulks words, not mine).

Thanks to Jean, Grey, he started fighting Onslaught on a much much higher strengthlevel than ANY other Hulk incarnation would have possessed in the beginning of a fight.

"But you do not understand it. Turning off the intellect of Hulk was extremely important !! Again, without that, he wouldn't have made it. He had no choice ! (Hulks words, not mine)"

No dude I do get that. I know that's how it went down. I'm just saying the Savage Hulk Jean unleashed is just like the Savage Hulk that came years before that. So it's not like he's never been there on his own. I'm just saying Jean isn't needed to get him there. He has done it before. Just in that split second time was of the essence.

I always thought Thor was there and had committed himself not powerful enough. Surfer I wouldn't know coz I don't remember cosmics being involved in this.

"Hulk beating Juggernaut is a plenty valid argument, but Hulk stopping Juggernaut? Im pretty sure hasnt been done and it cant be done . no physical force on >>earth<< has what it takes to stop him once he is moving forward."

No force on Earth on earth can stop The Human Juggernaut's forward motion. Those are the words of Cytorrak correct? Well, I'm sure those rules were scribed way way way before Hulk even existed. So any force on Earth...THEN...may never have had the power to halt his forward motion. I think if Cytorrak saw what Juggernaut was sharing Earth with today he'd take an eraser to a few of those lines and edit them. It's like saying an army from years ago armed with muskets cannot be beaten, because back then, they had the strongest weapons. Times change and rules are very often no longer relevant.

Also note that it said no force on Earth. I remember reading that this meant created of pure Earth force. Gamma bomb exposure isn't an everyday occurance. Sure Hulk is FROM Earth but he is by no means an Earthly force. Being that he can and has taken on cosmics before. He as power extending way beyond the parameters of Earthbound.

-AC

Im pretty sure Hulk count's as a force on earth.

when I see Hulk actually >>stop<< Juggernaut, I will think otherwise

ya, same here.

If the first armour coated soldier came with an oath saying "nothing can stop my movement" when all he had to face him were arrows, slingshots and swords. I would think nothing could stop him. As times change those scriptures become irrelevant. So the oath of Cytorakk is no longer as relevant as it was centuries ago. Cytorakk was never omnipotent so the ability to see what such a force would be contending with in the 20th century is well out of his reach.

-AC

i see where your coming from, its just i still like to see things before i beleive them.