Originally posted by Never
Hulk still punched Onslaught so hard that it blew open his armor, and - again - the ENTIRE. MARVEL. UNIVERSE. who participated could not dent it.That's power, and more than Juggernaut possesses.
Well well , ain't that funny. And all this time I was thinking that the fact that the Hulk suddenly could break the armor of Onslaught, was just a part of the masterplan of Onslaught, a part which made him evolve even further. Guess I was wrong... 😉
O yes, another thing, like it or not, but the Hulk had a bit help. Jean Grey made him extremely angry and savage by messing in his head with her telepatic abilities. She did it before the fight started, on his request - the Hulk knew that, without her help, he would get his ass kicked ! In my book, that's cheating (a bit).
Okay, I will end this Hulk vs Onslauht thing: the Hulk only "beat" Onslaught with the help of Jean Grey - let's assume she speeded things up a bit. Maybe. Maybe not. Nobody can tell for sure 🙂.
But before I'm getting too much off topic :
Hulk: stronger, certainly when he gets angry or medieval or whatever
Juggernaut: almost invulnerable
Being stronger doesn't mean being invincible, and being invulnerable does not guarantee a victory. This ain't rocketscience, you know. The battles between those two battleships could go on and on (theoretically).
So can these discussions...
Originally posted by JuggernautFan
and i already stated a feat of physical strength by juggernaut, in a weakened state, he supported the weight of a building. a severely weakened state. it's not 150 billion ton's but it is alot of weight. juggernaut was so strong he ripped through dimensional barriers. as far as i'm aware hulks punching power has never reached a level of that magnitude. could you please state anywhere that he has reached that level of power?????? i can tell you, it hasn't happened. not now not ever. if dimensional barriers cannot stop his fists, i doubt hulks skull would be able too. get the point? just thought i would post like a few of you, for a moment.
Look man we all know that hulk is stronger then Juggernaut, his whole Superpower is strength and brute force, he is designed for one thing raging ranting fits of anger resulting in incredibly amazing feats of strength. I am tempted to say that anything Juggernaut could do The Hulk could also do, because everytime the Hulk is gettin his ass kicked he always gets madder and turns the tables.
Originally posted by SuperDarryl
What if the Hulk used Aikido on Juggernaut. Hulk would be tossing him into walls and stuff. folding back his legs and arms like Steven Seagal, that would be so damn funny.
now that cud work. what if we put someone with extreme knowledge in martial arts and a little bit of strength against juggernaut. juggernaut is supposedly unstoppable in his given choice of direction right? well there are a few martial arts specifically designed to use your opponents momentum against him. judo and aikido are some. i think ninjutsu also applies this. so pit someone like karate kid or iron fist (i don't think the other martial artist's have enough strength to manuver the mass of juggernaut) against him and he'd be flying around like crazy. sure juggernaut won't get hurt, but it wud sure piss him out not being able to land solid hits on them. or maybe someone a little bit stronger but with martial arts. puma maybe. 12 ton class strength and the top student of his ninja master.
I think that if the Intelligent Hulk was a martial arts Master then he would kick Juggernauts but then it wouldn't just be brute strength. Juggernaut would swing at The Hulk full force and The Hulk could keep deflecting his punchs, tossing him into buildings, flipping him into incoming traffic, using his strength against him. That way Juggernaut could knock could break his own limbs when he swings at the Hulk. lol
Originally posted by SuperDarryl
Look man we all know that hulk is stronger then Juggernaut, his whole Superpower is strength and brute force, he is designed for one thing raging ranting fits of anger resulting in incredibly amazing feats of strength. I am tempted to say that anything Juggernaut could do The Hulk could also do, because everytime the Hulk is gettin his ass kicked he always gets madder and turns the tables.
but i never said hulk couldn't be stronger. i was simply trying to say that i think juggernaut stands at a base level that is higher than hulks. plane and simple. straight to the point. although neither have had a limit put on thier strength, hulk has to be rage induced to get to whatever his strength limit is. juggernaut is just staggeringly strong. that's all i was trying to debate. yet you people refuse to except it. which is alright by me, we all think what we want to right. also, i don't think hulk knows any form of martial arts. i guess i could debate by saying what if juggernaut learned some kind of martial arts, or had captain america train him. then the table would turn. juggernaut wouldn't use just brute strength, he would deflect hulks blows, and throw him into oncomming traffic and what not.
Look this is a battle neither hero will win, we need to be real about this. I'am not going to admit that Juggernaut will beat down the Hulk. Jugg fan isn't going to admit that The Hulk will beat down Juggernaut. Juggernauts base level strength may be stronger than Hulks, they are both in the 100 ton club, hard to tell. I mean give me a little proof that Juggernauts base strength is more powerful then Hulks base strength and I may agree with you. But I've seen nothing to substantiate these statements that point to a rational truth.
Originally posted by JuggernautFan
but i never said hulk couldn't be stronger. i was simply trying to say that i think juggernaut stands at a base level that is higher than hulks. plane and simple.
You are incorrect. They are both Class 100.
Hulk is stronger than Juggernaut in the long run. Period. Current version of Juggernaut AND Classic Juggernaut.
Hulk. Is. The. Strongest. There. Is. This has been said time and time and TIME and time and time again.
Originally posted by Never
You are incorrect. They are both Class 100.Hulk is stronger than Juggernaut in the long run. Period. Current version of Juggernaut AND Classic Juggernaut.
Hulk. Is. The. Strongest. There. Is. This has been said time and time and TIME and time and time again.
if it's so incorrect, why is juggernaut able to hold his own. also, just by sheer coincidence i was reading at http://www.marveldirectory.com about abomination. he is in the "100" ton class. even then just barely, because he cannot routinely lift it. it also says that he is at base level stronger than hulk. juggernaut IS in the 100 ton class, and has never had a definate cap put on his strength. he doesn't just stand at 100 tons he is above it. unfortunately 100 ton's is where the rating stops. i think you are incorrect in saying i'm wrong. juggernauts base strength stands higher than hulks or he wouldn't be able to rival hulks strength at all. but he does. what' so hard to except about that? like you said, in the long run. that's what i've been saying all along. base level juggernaut is stronger, sufficiently raged, hulk can be stronger. once he surpasses juggernaut's strength level. whatever that might be. you even stated it yourself.
abomination barely class 100...not true...he and the hulk both posses strength greater than Jugs, at their base levels....thus they jump for miles, where Jugs walks...Abomination is Jugs weight (900lbs)...Hulk is over a 1000lbs...Jugs is very strong, he has the unstoppable factor which is magic...he is also extremely resistant to injury...but pure strength....Hulk is the strongest
hulk isn't the strongest apparently, he isn't as strong as gladiator. nor is he stronger than mangog. nor do i believe that he is stronger than juggernaut at base level strengths. nothing you have stated has proven that he is. i still can't believe that you are denying it. marvel said neither has been show to have limits. so how are you so certain that hulk IS indeed stronger? also part of juggernaut walking, is the power that coarses through him, making him smash whatever is in his path. not leap over it. it's just his method of getting around.
Originally posted by JuggernautFan
hulk isn't the strongest apparently, he isn't as strong as gladiator. nor is he stronger than mangog. nor do i believe that he is stronger than juggernaut at base level strengths. nothing you have stated has proven that he is. i still can't believe that you are denying it. marvel said neither has been show to have limits. so how are you so certain that hulk IS indeed stronger? also part of juggernaut walking, is the power that coarses through him, making him smash whatever is in his path. not leap over it. it's just his method of getting around.
What the hell are you TALKING about? Has Gladiator EVER lifted 150 billion tons? NO. Gladiator has SAID he can fly through stars, et cetera. Have you seen him DO IT? Hello? Ever heard of...BRAGGING? Gladiator's most impressive feat was lifting the Fantastic Four building - the BAXTER BUILDING.
Hulk is THE STANDARD in Marvel Comics whenever strength is discussed. Not THOR. Not JUGGERNAUT. Not GLADIATOR. HULK. EVERYONE is compared to HULK, not VICE VERSA. What you believe is of ZERO consequence, but Gladiator has NEVER performed a feat of strength that eclipses what Hulk did in Secret Wars #4 - AND HE WAS NOT EVEN PISSED WHEN HE INITIALLY SUPPORTED IT.
As far as your flawed "base strength" hypothesis, let us shoot that down two ways.
One, current Juggernaut is a wimp...so erm, you MUST be discussing an OLD Juggernaut.
Two, APPARENTLY you forget that Hulk has SEVERAL incarnations. GREY, MINDLESS, PROFESSOR, SAVAGE.
So UM, let's start with SAVAGE.
First Appearance: The Incredible Hulk #2
Identity Basis: This incarnation represents the innocent and trusting child personality.
Strength: This incarnation can lift approximately 100 tons as a minimum. <<<<<<<<<<<This incarnation represents the epitome of the "madder he gets, the stronger he gets" and thus is for all practical purposes has no limit to the strength he can reach.
Intelligence: Child-level
See the nice arrows? AT BASE STRENGTH (you know, MINIMUM?) He lifts at LEAST 100 tons. At LEAST. And again, HULK WAS NOT ANGRY when he FIRST lifted/supported (since you CLAIM he did not "lift" it) that 150 BILLION TONS. He was NOT ANGRY. That blows your hypothesis to SMITHEREENS. Juggernaut has NEVER lifted 150 billion tons, and HULK did it CALM. You know, "calm?" As in...*gasp* BASE LEVEL STRENGTH?
Notice it also said FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES HAS NO LIMIT? There is a BIG difference between saying "I do not know how fast my motorcycle goes" and "my motorcycle HAS NO SPEED LIMIT." Can you SEE THE DIFFERENCE?
You are WRONG.
Regardless of what Marvel did NOT say, Marvel ALWAYS SAYS "Hulk Is The STRONGEST THERE IS."
The OTHER quote is "EARTH'S MIGHTIEST MORTAL." You're WRONG.
Get over it.
But I'm not done.
PROFESSOR.
First Appearance:The Incredible Hulk #377
Identity Basis: This is the idealized version of Bruce where he has all the strength of the Savage Hulk and the intelligence of Bruce Banner but none of the emotional baggage, awkwardness or shyness.
Strength: This incarnation can lift over 100 tons. <<<<<<<<<<<<<
Intelligence: Genius
Transformation: This version does not transform
See the nice arrows? OVER 100 TONS.
MINDLESS.
First Appearance:The Incredible Hulk #299
Identity Basis: The body of the Savage Hulk with all personas supressed.
Strength: This incarnation can lift in excess of 100 tons. <<<<<<<<<< This incarnation's strength increased as his anger increased.
Intelligence: Animal level intelligence, basic survival instinct
Transformation: This incarnation did not transform.
See the sweet wittle arrows? IN EXCESS OF 100 TONS BASE LEVEL.
Christ. You are really toeing the line between fan and fanboy.