Juggernaut or The Hulk?

savage hulk shmavage hulk! juggernaut is no puss dudes. its simply becuase tis always been bullshit writers that never want to show a decisive battle. the only reason jugg never used is forcefield is becuase he never needed to. he's is quite invulnerbale all on his own. this is going old school but if im not mistaken(must do more reseerch) i think his force filed can even absorb matter to redirect blows, or add to his power, or perhaps perform as some sort of refractor shield and exert as much pressure as is applied to it.(one of Newton's Laws i think)

dont qoute me or NE thing

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
My point in a nutshell is the argument on Juggernaut's strength, let me attempt at nulling out some points altogether:

1. Indeed in Jugg's profile he is 1) Invulnerable to physical pain BUT like I stated in my previous post "these are comics" things like physical invulnerability means NOTHING as either a superior or equally strong opponent overrides their invulnerability almost every time. If anyone in the comics were impervious to physical damage then they would never grimace when hit, or be knocked unconscious, saying Juggernaut can't be hurt by hulk's blows is false, we've seen their fights and both grimaced, grunted and reacted to the blows..Hulk can hurt Jug and vice versa..

2.Secondly, this argument should be based on what we "know" not what we "imply" about a character, we "know" hulk has infinite strength, we DO NOT know Jugg's limit so we CANT just say screw it and label his power inifinite, that's giving him "way too much" credit.(Like I said until I see it in print then that argument is always gonna rear its ugly head)..

I know the battle could go either way according to circumstances most comics indeed do, BUT my argument is a long lengthy fight to the death, The hulk doesn't have to raise his level "that much" to hurt juggernaut, as far as I've seen in previous battles they went back and forth meaning their power was "already" around the same area, in the "long run" I still do believe hulk has that advantage of getting angrier and toppling Juggernaut in the same manner in which he did the "physically invulnerable" Onslaught..

1. Juggernaut is invulnerable to physical strength. PERIOD. What you're doing is "making up" stuff in order to make your argument more valid....which is precisely what you accuse Juggernaut fans of when they claim his infinite strength. Hulk has fought Juggernaut MANY times and Hulk has NEVER hurt Juggernaut unless it was froma psychic backlash.

"these things happen all the time" isn't a valid arguement. Particularly when the character in question has never run out of energy and has never shown a failure on behalf of his invulnerability.

2. What we know:
a) Juggernaut is invulnerable to anything Hulk physically does to him.
b) Juggernaut doesn't have infinite strength, but he has enough to physically harm Hulk....as shown in their comic appearances.
c) Hulk can't knock out Juggernaut using physical blows.

What we don't know so we imply:
a) exactly what the limit to Juggernaut's finite strength is
b) Hulk's ability to break through the invulnerability...so we imply that it can just be broken because he's Hulk 🙄
c) how much pain Hulk endures while receiving punches from Juggernaut.

Your arguement would work and it could be agreeable....except Juggernaut DOES NOT feel the physical effects of Hulk's blows. That's a fact, check one of your coveted bios or comic cards.

As for Onslaught's armor. Care to share with the group exactly who said his armor was "invulnerable"????

i think that i touched on this earlier as did talon
* 1 talon brought up rightly juggie has tried to double his pwer b4 ( u cant do that if its infinite) and i dont remember it being base level power.
* why is he written with a shield if invulnerable???
now as ive discussed with talon i dont think his powers are definitive enough, where hulks are, we know hulk is limitless in strength ( and talon when it was about to crush him spidey took the piss and made him angrier to hold it up if i remember), we know his healing quickens with his anger, his ability to be resiliant to psychic control etc, as he is in 500 odd comics etc, juggie is not.
* all bios point at juggie being immensly powerful, as do comics, yet from my point of view as a reader from comics and bios i dont see that hulk is NOT gonna win in a brawl escalating in his strength ( which he will do quickly, can we please stop with the idea he will take aeons to increase just cos a couple of comics wrote it like that)
yes juggie could easily be wrtten to win a fight as he has ( against prof hulk) i could see a victory over a grey hulk, but a savage hulkactually being written correctly to hulks character i think ends either in juggie being buried, or hulk doing the unthinkable ( as he often does) and stopping juggie or severely hurting him. now to go back to my original point as juggie is not as distinguished shall we say as a character theres plenty of scope for writers to change certain aspects of juggie for a fight with hulk, but personally i dont like seeing that happen with characters that are sort of bit part players in the marvel frame, just so they can win certain fights etc. there are plenty of ways to beat hulk ( surfer sucking away his energy etc ),a fight with fisty cuffs i dont think ( sticking with the hulk character) would end with anything other than hulk reaching the level of physical strength required to gain the required result for him, and usually that is liftin the un liftable, stopping the unstoppable etc etc,

the onslaught armour thing i think was one of the avengers saying it , i cant remember, also hulk, also what is juggie gonna do to hurt a rampaging savage hulk growing vastly strong and healing as soon as he is injured???? juggie s punches would my dear boy end up as useless as youe saying hulks would be, the difference is hulks would keep getting stronger. oh and lets leave this forcefiels]d debacle alone., please, now it deflects this and absorbs that so he is absorbing man too, aswell as has hulks limitless strength, etc,. back to my point of him being too small a character to be given such great respect, guys here almost have him flying in some posts

Originally posted by Tough Guy
hulk is NOT gonna win in a brawl escalating in his strength ( which he will do quickly, can we please stop with the idea he will take aeons to increase just cos a couple of comics wrote it like that)
yes juggie could easily be wrtten to win a fight as he has ( against prof hulk) i could see a victory over a grey hulk, but a savage hulkactually being written correctly to hulks character i think ends either in juggie being buried, or hulk doing the unthinkable ( as he often does) and stopping juggie or severely hurting him.

If hulk will not win this brawl with his strength how will he win? My opinion it is imposible to beat someone that is incapable of feeling physical pain, hulk's main weapon is physical.

I dont think aeons to take him to reach juggernauts strength but it will give juggernaut all the time he needs (my opinion) 😉

Now I never heard of hulk's healing rate increasing as he gets angrier, is this a new trick? If you would be so kind and give me some more info on that maybe writen text or a issue number so i could look it up 😄

Now as far as hulk doing the unthinkable and hurting juggernaut and breaking his magical spell that has served a great purpose for years. (untill chuck austen of course) I just can see that, having great physical strength no matter how much I just cant see something physical breaking something magical, especially something such as a spell granted by a much superior being.

You gotta have some respect for juggernaut like you said he is a rare appearance and yet he is still given the power to beat the greatest power houses on the planet. If i had a hat on i would take it off to him 😎

Juggernaut's force field prevents things from hitting him in general.

Hmmm....if you're invulnerable to physical pain....why would you want to have an impenatrable force field? I would think the obvious answer would be because characters like Thor enjoy throwing hammers at him. Cyclops optic blast won't hurt Juggernaut, but it sure could send him flying backwards if he was stationary

The fact that you know absolutely jack sh!t about Juggernaut's force field only proves that your response is that of an extremely biased fan boy.

Almost every Hulk fan in here claims Juggernaut fans to be fanboys. How about looking in the mirror. Actually, I'm willing to bet most people arguing for Juggernaut are actually Hulk fans (like myself) but they are willing to give an unbiased opinon.

Relying on Hulk to "do the impossible" once again is a pretty weak way to present an arguement.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
the onslaught armour thing i think was one of the avengers saying it , i cant remember, also hulk, also what is juggie gonna do to hurt a rampaging savage hulk growing vastly strong and healing as soon as he is injured???? juggie s punches would my dear boy end up as useless as youe saying hulks would be, the difference is hulks would keep getting stronger. oh and lets leave this forcefiels]d debacle alone., please, now it deflects this and absorbs that so he is absorbing man too, aswell as has hulks limitless strength, etc,. back to my point of him being too small a character to be given such great respect, guys here almost have him flying in some posts

The X-Men, the Fantastic Four and the Avengers, Earth's Mightiest Heroes, challenged Onslaught. Their first confrontation with the entity and his minions resulted in the rescue of a now-powerless Xavier, who retained his usual benevolent personality. Onslaught now existed as psionic energy contained within his armor. A second and final confrontation occurred at his Central Park citadel. After a number of attempts to free Franklin and X-Man from Onslaught's SEEMINGLY IMPERVIOUS ARMOR, <
^ semmingly impervious armor i dont think it was indestructible then again i could be wrong but this is what it says

Im a hulk fan hes like 4th though
juggernaut apocalypse deadpool hulk 😎

yes like link sayed his force field just isnt for his being vunerable, It can be quite usefull towards psylocks psycic blade or if he would have used it during nimrod he could have saved himself some pain. Also magical weapons such as shatterstars sword that he stabbed his eye out, but you see he hardly uses it, its not forgoten like the hude energy waves you use to shoot from his body, or the magical energy he shot from his hands to shrink a giant nightmare down to size to fight better but he just doesnt really worry about walking into trapps cause well he is a juggernaut. why be afraid of something that cant hurt you.

also if he didnt want to move back, link already said but i dont care 😉

He's also used his forcefield to keep from being physically pummeled, like against Thor.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
He's also used his forcefield to keep from being physically pummeled, like against Thor.

actually the only time he used it was when he didnt have it. when thor nullified juggernauts powers. upon return he used it to stop thors punch cold.

other than that, thor has always (ALWAYS) landed blows directly on juggernauts body.

He didn't block the Juggs powers, only the shield. Go read it again. If he blocked Juggs powers Juggs would have died that day.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
He didn't block the Juggs powers, only the shield. Go read it again. If he blocked Juggs powers Juggs would have died that day.

actually its YOU that needs to read it again. i've read it plenty. thor says hes going to block and i quote "all" magical energies. ALL being the key words.

which theoretically should have turned juggernaut into cain marko. but this isnt true, because he was still ... strong.

quote from thor... just in case you didnt believe me

"I merely sent my enchanted hammer spinning around the castle, encircling it within a cone which will for the nonce negate ALL mystical energy!"

cain marko - "i still dont get the point"

thor - "it shall soon become painfully obvious"

Linkalishish: we call some of them Juggernaut fanboys because they have nick's named Juggernaut74 or JuggFan, how obvious can it get?

I'm not a Hulk fan as you can dig in my post and see, I'm pretty much neutral about him and really don't care if he wins or loses..But I'm applying or at least trying "some" form of logic to this battle of behemoths..

Secondly, Juggernaut being "physically invulnerable" is a weak argument, it's too full of holes to go by, what are you guy's saying is that the Hulk can't damage or topple Juggernaut?? Bullcrap, like I said 1001 times "physical invulnerability" is "OVERIDDEN" all-the-time..Gladiator was said to be physically invulnerable yet the hulk's blows hurt him, so was Thor, and the Thing, it's a "comic book" things like physical invulnerability were created to be challenged and proved wrong thus making the defying character seem more powerful...

Besides both these guys knocked each other around plent-O-times and neither side stood up and "took" another's blow without being affected..Since both have superhuman "unmeasurable" strength their powers can't be used in determining someone's physical invulnerabilty limit...

Lastly, since both reacted negatively from traded blows we have to go to their "mutant powers" to decide who is more durable, Juggernaut is "extemely durable" BUT the longer this battle goes on the STRONGER the hulk will get and the more his blows will be "felt", and the hulk heals at a more rapid rate, now stop being biased for a split second and think about what I just stated...The hulk is more agile and even if he's losing or showing fatigue he can "hop off" and heal "hop back" and be in top form once again...Like I said there is no way finite strength can stand up to infinite strength alone, this is a battle strength for strength..

Alrighty.

Prove where it says that Gladiator, Thor, or Thing are physically invulnerable. Grab a comic book, check a bio, or a comic card....whatever you'd prefer...and show how any of those characters is invulnerable to physical damage.

secondly....neither of these characters are "mutants." Both of them are human's who have been gifted with powers.

Yah, sure these two have knocked eachother around lots of times, but you're wrong about how they were affected. Juggernaut ALWAYS got up and came back for more...even when he was scared sh!tless by War Hulk. Go find me a comic where Juggernaut has ever said something like "ouch that hurt" or showed that he felt pain in any way.

Thor blasted him with a huge lightning bolt and all he said was "that tickles"

* talon i think ur right with onslought, matter of opinion as to how u read it.
*linkalicious go to gladiator v hulk and see him kick him crapless.
* juggies force field is bad writing, why have it if your invulnerable
*hulk is stronger potentially on physical strength so should win a physical brawl, hurting juggie would just be a bonus to hulk fans wanting another example of hulk doing the impossible

Originally posted by Linkalicious
Alrighty.

Prove where it says that Gladiator, Thor, or Thing are physically invulnerable. Grab a comic book, check a bio, or a comic card....whatever you'd prefer...and show how any of those characters is invulnerable to physical damage.

secondly....neither of these characters are "mutants." Both of them are human's who have been gifted with powers.

Yah, sure these two have knocked eachother around lots of times, but you're wrong about how they were affected. Juggernaut ALWAYS got up and came back for more...even when he was scared sh!tless by War Hulk. Go find me a comic where Juggernaut has ever said something like "ouch that hurt" or showed that he felt pain in any way.

Thor blasted him with a huge lightning bolt and all he said was "that tickles"

He wasnt scared he was thrown into a city and yet he continued to look for War, If he was scared he would have went looking somewhere else 😉

Originally posted by Linkalicious
Alrighty.

Prove where it says that Gladiator, Thor, or Thing are physically invulnerable. Grab a comic book, check a bio, or a comic card....whatever you'd prefer...and show how any of those characters is invulnerable to physical damage.

secondly....neither of these characters are "mutants." Both of them are human's who have been gifted with powers.

Yah, sure these two have knocked eachother around lots of times, but you're wrong about how they were affected. Juggernaut ALWAYS got up and came back for more...even when he was scared sh!tless by War Hulk. Go find me a comic where Juggernaut has ever said something like "ouch that hurt" or showed that he felt pain in any way.

Thor blasted him with a huge lightning bolt and all he said was "that tickles"

On Juggernaut feeling pain, I'm sure I said this before, but Juggernaut screamed when he was injured in the eye by Shatterstar during a Spiderman and X-Force crossover. I'm sure it felt worse than a bee sting.

Originally posted by Tough Guy
* talon i think ur right with onslought, matter of opinion as to how u read it.
*linkalicious go to gladiator v hulk and see him kick him crapless.
* juggies force field is bad writing, why have it if your invulnerable
*hulk is stronger potentially on physical strength so should win a physical brawl, hurting juggie would just be a bonus to hulk fans wanting another example of hulk doing the impossible

His forcefield isnt necessarily bad writing, yet i must give it is sorta useless, but also serves a purpose (if he would ever use it)

Prime example

If used against war he would not have been knocked into a building both times.
Up against someone like havoc, cyclops, thor's godforce, unless he is walking forward he would be pushed back by a powerful enough force, but if he uses his forcefield he would lose no momentum and would not have to bust out of a building (even though it seems he likes that)

Originally posted by radioboy121
On Juggernaut feeling pain, I'm sure I said this before, but Juggernaut screamed when he was injured in the eye by Shatterstar during a Spiderman and X-Force crossover. I'm sure it felt worse than a bee sting.

His sword is magical, unless hulk gets magical fingers good look with that. 😄

Even so he healed in how many seconds? 😄