Originally posted by Darth Revan
Some things are either true or untrue; I could say I have three arms, and believe that with all my heart, but it wouldn't make it true. Some things depend on perspective... others don't.
One thing though, surely all things are either true or untrue? There's no middle ground with fact; there's extensions and variations but it all boils down to whether it is, or it isn't.
So you're saying if you can't see or touch it it doesn't exist? The way of the philospher, always questioning things, may lead him/her down a path of discovery, however in the end, if he spends all his life questioning everything, what kind of life has he lead? A noble one? A lonely one IMO.oh yeah accepting a thing without question is the answer that will lead you to a nobel a and full life 🙄
Originally posted by Syren
One thing though, surely all things are either true or untrue? There's no middle ground with fact; there's extensions and variations but it all boils down to whether it is, or it isn't.
Well, I see what you're saying... But we'll never know the truth and fiction behind everything, at least not here on earth, so I prefer to think of it as a matter of perspective.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"well it doesn't matter if you live a life of good or evil"I'm sure Moses would be having a right party if he thought he trekked up Mt.Sinai to retrieve the Ten Commandments only to find out they'd be overlooked.
I don't buy the BS about living a certain way. If God wants true people in his kingdom he'll surely prefer those who did what's right by them and lived their own way than those who blindly followed what is essentially a rule book.
"what i'm telling you is true, haeck if marilyn manson decided to one day stop being a satanist and become a christian, he could get into heaven, that's all it takes, for your life to be changed."
A) Marilyn Manson is not a Satanist just because he has views that challenge your own.
B) I've never been that confident to the point I'd try to change what is said to be the word of God.
So God made the ten commandments knowing that on "Judgement Day" he would just go "Ahh shuck ya little bastards. You promise to be good? Then come on in." Yes, exactly.
I have two questions for you as you are a Christian. Because you claim you are no blind follower.
A) Do you believe God listens to all our prayers, if he answers them or not. Yes or no?
B) Do you believe priests have a place in Christianity?
-AC
sorry i haven't been on... 😮 😄
first of all God doesn't prefer one person over another, he loves us all just the same, no matter what we do, whether we cuz right to his face i.e. God d*mn, and other profanities.
I didn't say he was satanist because he had views that challenge my own, i call him satanist from what i've been told about him, and the way he looks and acts... 😖
Fraid' not, God tells us exactly hat we need to do to get into heaven, i doesn't matter if you lead a good life, well then good job, but that's not going to get you into heaven.
A. yes i belive he answers prayers, in fact i've got alot of mine answered, but here's the key, he'll do what he needs to when the time is right. Listen to this, i had the crappiest car in the world, and i sure as heck did not want to drive it around when i got my license, so i prayed for a better car, and when i ended up getting my license, i didn't half to take my old car, because my mom just happened to get a brand new car, and i ended up getting my parents car, which was much better than my old car. and that's just one, of many.
B. what do you mean by preists? anyways everyone can get into heaven, yes everyone, but the only way is to accept that jesus died for you, that's it, now your a christian, now you can get into heaven, and here's where your good life will benefit you... whatever you do on earth, you will be rewarded for in heaven. So basically, if you become a christian, but still go out and do all the bad things that you did when weren't a christian, you can still get into heaven, but your MANSION will be pretty small and not filled with as many things, and vice versa.
Anything else?
Recap: You can get into heaven, no matter what you've doen, because God still loves you, but the only way to get there is to believe that Jesus(historically proven) died on the cross for you. After that God can help you to change your life, to make it better than it was before.
And on revan's case, please do find a good church, a religious church is not a good church.
Re: Re: The Concept of Heaven
Originally posted by Syren
Ok, just to clarify, I'm not religious and I don't personally believe in a heaven. But I'd just like to say that being there so long can not cause any problems due to a basic human need for tribulation. Surely that basic human need will no longer exist?
nope we won't have that need anymore, there are no tribulations, no pain, death, disease, crying, etc. forever, and some how it's so perfect that we won't get tired of it.
Originally posted by The Force
sorry i haven't been on... 😮 😄first of all God doesn't prefer one person over another, he loves us all just the same, no matter what we do, whether we cuz right to his face i.e. God d*mn, and other profanities.
I didn't say he was satanist because he had views that challenge my own, i call him satanist from what i've been told about him, and the way he looks and acts... 😖
Fraid' not, God tells us exactly hat we need to do to get into heaven, i doesn't matter if you lead a good life, well then good job, but that's not going to get you into heaven.
A. yes i belive he answers prayers, in fact i've got alot of mine answered, but here's the key, he'll do what he needs to when the time is right. Listen to this, i had the crappiest car in the world, and i sure as heck did not want to drive it around when i got my license, so i prayed for a better car, and when i ended up getting my license, i didn't half to take my old car, because my mom just happened to get a brand new car, and i ended up getting my parents car, which was much better than my old car. and that's just one, of many.
B. what do you mean by preists? anyways everyone can get into heaven, yes everyone, but the only way is to accept that jesus died for you, that's it, now your a christian, now you can get into heaven, and here's where your good life will benefit you... whatever you do on earth, you will be rewarded for in heaven. So basically, if you become a christian, but still go out and do all the bad things that you did when weren't a christian, you can still get into heaven, but your MANSION will be pretty small and not filled with as many things, and vice versa.
Anything else?
Recap: You can get into heaven, no matter what you've doen, because God still loves you, but the only way to get there is to believe that Jesus(historically proven) died on the cross for you. After that God can help you to change your life, to make it better than it was before.
And on revan's case, please do find a good church, a religious church is not a good church.
Force... That car thing... I'm not sure whether to laugh, or to be offended. God wasn't answering your damned prayer for a better car, if you think he was, you need serious help. There are people in the world who have MUCH bigger problems than little old you having to drive a crappy car. Which do you think is more important to God, a little girl in the Middle East who just got her legs blown off by a mine and might die of an infection, or some rich American kid who hates his car?
I'm not going to find a good church... You know why? Because I've come to the point where I think Christianity is complete bullshit. Not the religion in and of itself, but how it's interpreted. Hitler was a practicing Christian, who killed millions of people. You say he can still get into heaven? Hitler is probably the most evil person of the 20th century, and the one who single handedly caused the world more pain and suffering than any number of Saudi terrorists ever did. But you look at somebody like Ghandi, on the other hand, who was not Christian, but did nothing but good for the world, and HE'S the one who gets to rot in hell for all eternity?
Manson is a Satanist... But like I said before, he never hurt anybody. He's not "evil". Why are there so many evil Christians who get free tickets to heaven just because they went to church every Sunday, but so many non Christians who are anything but evil who have to go to hell? Like AC said, Moses would be rolling in his grave if he knew the commandments which he worked so hard to get were being overlooked.
So, if I had a mid-life crisis and became a Christian when I was 35, my MANSION when I got to heaven would be small and empty? I thought Christianity was opposed to materialism? So if I'm a Christian, I shouldn't care how much crap my MANSION has in it. And since you're a Christian, you shouldn't care about your car either. This is the main reason why I think Christianity today is a load of bull... hypocrisy. The bible says that you should give up all your possessions, but you pray to God to get a new car while little children are starving in Korea.
So for the last time... I'm not a Christian and probably never will be again. I've rejected that way of thinking.
EEErrrrrr!!!!! does anyone read my posts!!!!! i already addressed those subjects!!!!
Originally posted by RaventheOnly
It is said that if the most henous people on earth can ask for forgiveness and be granted it. But one must truly be sorry for thier transgressions.Hitler, Stalin, Mao could ask for forgiviness and be saved.
PLEASE LOOK AT THIS PART V .... this answers the final peice if its true
Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Ok i was watching something on the history channel that addressed books taken from the bible by the original church and one was about Peter's Apocalypse which basically sumed up to the idea if those saved looked upon those traped in the depths of heck and took pity upon them and asked God .... those in the depths of darkness could be saved.... therefore EVERYONE is saved no matter what..... now thats a mind bender.
Originally posted by Darth Revan
Force... That car thing... I'm not sure whether to laugh, or to be offended. God wasn't answering your damned prayer for a better car, if you think he was, you need serious help. There are people in the world who have MUCH bigger problems than little old you having to drive a crappy car. Which do you think is more important to God, a little girl in the Middle East who just got her legs blown off by a mine and might die of an infection, or some rich American kid who hates his car?
✅
I have to say that when I read Force's example of his prayers being answered in this way I grimaced. The better car thing, total coincidence, I'd put it down to Lady Luck before I ever assumed God had a hand in it. Like DR said, do you truly believe God would bother to 'help' in this way? With such a materialistic, petty problem? I doubt it, I reckon he's got a lot more to worry about than whether you pull, or don't, because of your ride 😉
I'm not going to find a good church... You know why? Because I've come to the point where I think Christianity is complete bullshit. Not the religion in and of itself, but how it's interpreted. Hitler was a practicing Christian, who killed millions of people. You say he can still get into heaven? Hitler is probably the most evil person of the 20th century, and the one who single handedly caused the world more pain and suffering than any number of Saudi terrorists ever did. But you look at somebody like Ghandi, on the other hand, who was not Christian, but did nothing but good for the world, and HE'S the one who gets to rot in hell for all eternity?
Again, I agree. A perfect example of shining contradiction.
Manson is a Satanist... But like I said before, he never hurt anybody. He's not "evil". Why are there so many evil Christians who get free tickets to heaven just because they went to church every Sunday, but so many non Christians who are anything but evil who have to go to hell? Like AC said, Moses would be rolling in his grave if he knew the commandments which he worked so hard to get were being overlooked.
Manson has an image, a way of portraying himself to boost sales. Perhaps he does believe in 'Satan', perhaps not, but does it really matter? Why are we concentrating on a guy who paints his face weird and acts a bit freakish? I don't think it holds much relevance here.
So, if I had a mid-life crisis and became a Christian when I was 35, my MANSION when I got to heaven would be small and empty? I thought Christianity was opposed to materialism? So if I'm a Christian, I shouldn't care how much crap my MANSION has in it. And since you're a Christian, you shouldn't care about your car either. This is the main reason why I think Christianity today is a load of bull... hypocrisy. The bible says that you should give up all your possessions, but you pray to God to get a new car while little children are starving in Korea.
Good points DR. Although I severely doubt Force meant anything of the kind when giving his example of the new car. Honestly, it was a bit harsh to suggest he only prays for new things and forgets about the real problems our world has.
"i call him satanist from what i've been told about him, and the way he looks and acts... "
From what you've been told? You believe everything you hear obviously. The way he looks? Judging books by their covers isn't a good thing. Acts? Clearly affected by his intended shock tactics. Judge not lest ye be judged I believe is the phrase.
"So you your MANSION will be pretty small and not filled with as many things, and vice versa."
What happened to worshipping no other things than the lord himself? If you are already guaranteed of getting to Heaven then who the hell is gonna care about following the rules anyway? If someone said to me "Ok there's a Heaven and you're going there no matter what. BUT you wont have everything you want if you do 'bad' stuff." I'd say "Fricken Awesome." and continue to do all the good and bad things I do today. What you say defies the concept of Heaven. Talking out of your anus mate.
"i had the crappiest car in the world, and i sure as heck did not want to drive it around when i got my license, so i prayed for a better car, and when i ended up getting my license, i didn't half to take my old car, because my mom just happened to get a brand new car, and i ended up getting my parents car, which was much better than my old car. and that's just one, of many."
Sorry to smash your illusion but your mother went to the dealership, paid cash and got you a car. No divine intervention at all. It happened when you got your licence because you can now drive and it's common knowledge that parents help out with a first time car, if not paying for it totally. Simple.
"Honestly, it was a bit harsh to suggest he only prays for new things and forgets about the real problems our world has."
Well he prays for new things. Doesn't matter if it's just that. If you want a new car get yourself money to buy one. He uses the God he loves so much just so that he can drive impressively rather than having the ability to drive at all and being grateful.
And finally...
"And on revan's case, please do find a good church, a religious church is not a good church. "
Why? For a good priest?
You claim God listens to all of our prayers NO MATTER WHAT. So let me ask you a question. If God listens to us all individually at anytime in any place, why do I need to go to a church and listen to what are essentially middlemen? If this living, omnipotent, all seeing and knowing God, listens to us all.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriYou claim God listens to all of our prayers NO MATTER WHAT. So let me ask you a question. If God listens to us all individually at anytime in any place, why do I need to go to a church and listen to what are essentially middlemen? If this living, omnipotent, all seeing and knowing God, listens to us all.
-AC
I don't want to sound like I'm protecting the Christian belief, but I gotta say something about this.
From what I understand God listens to prayers. Christians in their belief say that they pray in temples, churches, whatever because is an act of unification between brothers and sisters (or if you wish to call them belivers) You see, Christians got this thingy called "faith" and in their belief "faith" becomes stronger when we (as in all humans) come together and pray to God. They believe that by praying together....they can make this a better and more peaceful planet.
Now, if you or some other Average Joe feels like praying by himself is his/her choice. But Christians feel that by praying together they can actually become as ONE big family. Wouldn't this world be a much better place if people put aside their hatred and problems, and join others in prayer for a better tomorrow? Seems to me that Christianity tries to bring all humans together and try to make a better tomorrow. Maybe that's what God wants us to do? How about putting down the sword and the anger and join others in prayer?
Call me a peace lover....but I rather see people put down their weapons for once and pray for a better tomorrow. I think God and Christianity want that (and maybe other religions that promote prayer).
"Now, if you or some other Average Joe feels like praying by himself is his/her choice. But Christians feel that by praying together they can actually become as ONE big family. "
If you unity is your reason for praying in a group, get some friends and family round with similar beliefs. Right? There's no need to go to a building and be told what to do by a man who really is no different from you, one day a week. When did unity become relevant on one day? I also think it's a pretty big assumption to say all Christians do it for unity. A majority do it because they feel they must.
"Seems to me that Christianity tries to bring all humans together and try to make a better tomorrow. Maybe that's what God wants us to do? How about putting down the sword and the anger and join others in prayer?"
If you want a better world, be part of the solution and go out and do something about it. If God did what everyone claimed and created all that is, he did it for the reason of seeing how we'd cope alone. Him helping us would be like saying "Ok you gotta complete this puzzle yourself. It will help you do things alone and become independant but I'll help you as many times as you need if you really need it." Instead of, as people always do, looking to someone or something else for deliverance, go out and start making YOUR better world. Christians need to understand that their better world is only theirs, it doesn't apply to the entire multi-billion person race that we have.
Also, what Christianity means and what Christians mean are now two different things and have been for a tiny while now. Thou shalt not kill was a rule God never intended to be broken if he made it, or at least it's something he agrees should not happen. So when you get Christians murdering people "in the name of God". It's kinda like putting whiteout over lines of the bible you hold so dear and rewriting it as if you are saying "I think what God REALLY meant is...".
The reason more people are either totally dismissing religions and/or God or embracing it so completely blindly is because as time goes on and people as a race become more and more self absorbed into believing only what they can detect with their senses, religion is becoming irrelevant in todays world. People are losing faith in stories, which is essentially what they are. Human nature is causing us, or more importantly religious people, to question what they believe. People who once believed are losing faith in God because of the deterioration of the world. "Why can't he save us all if he exists?". People who claim to love God so much should start trying to figure out why he hasn't jumped in if he exists. The reason being as I said, he created us all (if he did) to see how we'd cope. He's leaving us to our own devices and if we all kill ourselves off then he'll probably recreate and recycle us until we start getting it right.
People have continually based God's supposed reasoning on how they each interpret these age old "rules" and this age old bible. One person reads it one way, follows it blindly and decides what God wants us to do. Like The Force has. Others read it and consider alternatives. Nobody knows what God planned or has planned for us if he even exists so the sooner people realise that their interpretation of his plans are just that, interpretations, then we can get on with evolving.
-AC
AC, can I just point out that you have, so far, insisted on ripping every post apart that doesn't concur exactly with yours. This is supposed to be a discussion on individual beliefs and opinions, am I not correct?
Also, Ush has already pointed out in a perfectly reasonable way, that we're crossing the line into areas we're not generally allowed to talk about, but he's allowed it to continue thus far.
This;
"People have continually based God's supposed reasoning on how they each interpret these age old "rules" and this age old bible. One person reads it one way, follows it blindly and decides what God wants us to do. Like The Force has. Others read it and consider alternatives. Nobody knows what God planned or has planned for us if he even exists so the sooner people realise that their interpretation of his plans are just that, interpretations, then we can get on with evolving."
I feel is a little out of line. Who are you to decide that Force is 'following blindly'? You were, however, exact in your reasoning, when you said that no-one knows if God exists, including yourself. I for one am not religious, I don't personally believe in an Almighty being. But I have yet to shove my views forcefully down everyone's throat. I have a hunch your opinions may be accepted less begrudgingly if you ceased to be so obvious in your apparent superiority. I apologise in advance for being a little harsh, but as the age old saying conveys; If you can't take it, etc etc....
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If you unity is your reason for praying in a group, get some friends and family round with similar beliefs. Right? There's no need to go to a building and be told what to do by a man who really is no different from you, one day a week. When did unity become relevant on one day? I also think it's a pretty big assumption to say all Christians do it for unity. A majority do it because they feel they must.
It's called organized religion. Is like being part of a "community". I'm sure you live or are aware that a "community" works together for better purpose. The same can be say about the Christian community. Let me tell you something about me. Near my apartment complex there are many members of a church that always invited me to go to service. Now, I'm always turning them down because I'm not interested. But these neighbors of mine are very friendly, and very polite individuals. They don't go around preaching me or telling I'm a sinner. Or even try to convert me into their religion. But because they have that "praying together as a brother and sisters" they always asking me if I want to be a part of it. I might not like to go to church, but is a beautiful thing to see my neighbors get together and pray. I much prefer to have neighbors that go to church and worship a God (that atheist say it doesn't exist) than to have neighbors that drunks or boorish rude people.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If you want a better world, be part of the solution and go out and do something about it. If God did what everyone claimed and created all that is, he did it for the reason of seeing how we'd cope alone. Him helping us would be like saying "Ok you gotta complete this puzzle yourself. It will help you do things alone and become independant but I'll help you as many times as you need if you really need it." Instead of, as people always do, looking to someone or something else for deliverance, go out and start making YOUR better world. Christians need to understand that their better world is only theirs, it doesn't apply to the entire multi-billion person race that we have.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The reason more people are either totally dismissing religions and/or God or embracing it so completely blindly is because as time goes on and people as a race become more and more self absorbed into believing only what they can detect with their senses, religion is becoming irrelevant in todays world. People are losing faith in stories, which is essentially what they are. Human nature is causing us, or more importantly religious people, to question what they believe. People who once believed are losing faith in God because of the deterioration of the world. "Why can't he save us all if he exists?". People who claim to love God so much should start trying to figure out why he hasn't jumped in if he exists. The reason being as I said, he created us all (if he did) to see how we'd cope. He's leaving us to our own devices and if we all kill ourselves off then he'll probably recreate and recycle us until we start getting it right.