The OFFICIAL "For those who've seen Revolutions"

The religious elements of the movies are self evident. When characters refer to "The One", they sure as h3ll aren't referring to Jet Li movies.

Anyways, reading this thread has certainly piqued my interest in certain aspects of the movie. I'm going to re-watch it before I post a lengthy reply examining the diverse post-modern theologies that the Wachowski brothers have presented.

I'll say only this before I part; endings to stories that defer religious themes are always ambiguous and open-ended. Especially to a work like this.

Congratulations to the Wachowski brothers for creating a post-modern mythology discussion and made it appeal to the mass-market. The last time a director attempted this and was moderately successful was when George Lucas released Star Wars, and we've come a long, long way since.

I wonder what the next mythology story is going to be like.

Marleyboy> Welcome onboard.
Yes, there are MANY aspects to the MAtrix Universe. If you like this strange blend of high culture, mainstream and underground, you won't be disappointed.

The next mythology story? We'll probably have to wait another 20 years.
SW came out just about the same time as William Gibson revolutionised literature with his nitty-gritty cyberpunk genre (to which the Matrix owes a great deal).
But who knows?

Yes, Welcome.

JediHDM said...
the war is over, this anomaly ended it..."It is done"...this ONE has given mankind the ability to be truly free, rather than the "freedom" that is fear of the machines killing them...This is it.
<--end statement

The humans are not free. Free of what exactly? Weather you accept Zion to be a 'real' city or another computer genereated space is not important. Whatever Zion is, it is another level of control. It is the place the machines let the 'red pills' go so that they can feel like they have choice. However it is another kind of control. It has been destroyed 6 times and the machines have knowingly allowed it to be rebuilt. They do this because it is a necessary layer of control.

So what have the humans really gained in a world where humans are still grown, where the matrix is still functioning, where the machines still rule the surface and still need energy?

I think all they have is a temporary peace, and The Oracle and Architect's discussion at the end sumarised just that. What they have for a little while is true choice in a city that was built to provide the illusion of choice, free of squiddies attacking, and absent of system agents monitoring them.

Any time the remainder of the human race has to live in a city underground while machines rule the surface, I would hardly call it free. I would call it a level of survival, and I would also call it a situation waiting to explode. The Machines will not break the time of peace, they have no reason, they allowed Zion to be built, so the humans can stay down there forever for all they care. They've agreed to let the other wanna-be 'Red Pills' out, that's fine too. It's the humans that will re-start the war, just like they started it in the beginning (See - The Animatrix). Man can not be satisfied in a hole in the ground under the thumb of machines, it just will not work. The future on-line Matrix game is already farther proof ot the story expansion.

JediHDM said...
the war is over, this anomaly ended it..."It is done"...this ONE has given mankind the ability to be truly free, rather than the "freedom" that is fear of the machines killing them...This is it.
<--end statement

The humans are not free. Free of what exactly? Weather you accept Zion to be a 'real' city or another computer generated space is not important. Whatever Zion is, it is another level of control. It is the place the machines let the 'red pills' go so that they can feel like they have choice. However it is another kind of control. It has been destroyed 6 times and the machines have knowingly allowed it to be rebuilt. They do this because it is a necessary layer of control.

So what have the humans really gained in a world where humans are still grown, where the matrix is still functioning, where the machines still rule the surface and still need energy?

I think all they have is a temporary peace, and The Oracle and Architect's discussion at the end summarized just that. What they have for a little while is true choice in a city that was built to provide the illusion of choice, free of squiddies attacking, and absent of system agents monitoring them.

Any time the remainder of the human race has to live in a city underground while machines rule the surface, I would hardly call it free. I would call it a level of survival, and I would also call it a situation waiting to explode. The Machines will not break the time of peace, they have no reason, they allowed Zion to be built, so the humans can stay down there forever for all they care. The machines agreed to let the other wanna-be 'Red Pills' out, that's fine too. It's the humans that will re-start the war, just like they started it in the beginning (See - The Animatrix). Man can not be satisfied in a hole in the ground under the thumb of machines, it just will not work.

The future on-line Matrix game is already farther proof of the story expansion. I'm sure there will be comic books and animations, and maybe (anytime a product makes over a billion dollars it's a pretty big maybe) other films.

I didn't say they were free, i said they had the ABILITY to be free; there's a difference. And for now, the humans have waited for this too long, this war to be over...they are happy that it IS over...plus, if all the humans were to be freed RIGHT NOW, all the humans would die...the matrix, at this point, is a necessary evil until humanity can get back on track, start building more cities, start growing food, working with the machines to figure out how to clear the skies and make earth normal again...and, yes, the humans probably WILL restart the war, but that will be hundreds, perhaps thousands, of years in the future...

what archi. explains in reloaded happens in revolutions.....

maybe this might help/////////
1)Architect: “(…)Which, coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race”.
Neo: “You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive”.
Architect: “There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept”.

so in the revolutions if the humans r freed in the end then all must be done with ... by the support of the abv. argument bet neo and the architect....

NO, people keep assuming that all the humans are freed, but that is a falacious thought...if the humans were all freed, everyone would die...things take time...the free humans must work to prepare for all the humans that would be freed, and find out ways to rebuild Zion, and start growing food again...

so what does levels of survival mean???????
i think the architect being the creator of the matrix and also a machine
knows what he was talking abt......
even the thought tht archi. was talking abt. progs being free doesnt make much sense..........

also nearly everything is foreshadowed in the matrix series.....
smith spreading like a virus........
the final brawl bet. neo and smith which can be considered as the cataclysmic crash the archi. tells neo in reloaded.......
but as the oracle put it he couldnot see past his own choices......

also the oracle is like a mathemagician that is she just solves all the equations and comes out with the answer.......that is future prediction as we say it.............

Originally posted by JediHDM
Sati is a program, but was created outside the normal parameters of programming. She was created with no specific purpose in mind, aside form the love between one program and another. She was not created with parameters telling her what she can and cannot do, thus, she can do anything because "she can"...there is nothing boxing her in, so she would be like a new type of program, free of constraints, become, almost human...she can do anything she sets her mnd to.

i totally agree with u jedi bcoz shes an open mind an empty space to be filled with so she can do almost anything on which she sets her mind!!!!

Agreeing with Jedi is very easy... and you are usually right... 😑

I'm NOT always right, and usually is debateable...

Sshhh! Don't say that! You're ruining Dave's life! 😛

Did anyone notice that the letters in "Mobil" could also make the word "Limbo", hence Neo was in Limbo, or more appropriately, Purgatory at Mobil Avenue.

I'd have to agree about Sati, she represents a program with true choice which is dangerous to the stability of the matrix. I also agree that not all of the humans have been freed by any stretch in fact most of them (those that were not killed by the smith virus - lets recall that he multiplied by copying himself on top of other personalities) are still plugged in. At the end of Revo, the Architect agress with the Oracle that 'others wanting to be free will be freed'. I believe he was talking about other red-pills, but he could also have been talking about other choice-free programs like Sati, and or both.

In the end Revo was about Revolutions both by programs and by humans. And yes Jedi, I think we agree that the humans will rekindle the war, alhtough how far in the future is the only question.

when Trinity, Morpheus and Seraph got off of the subway/train and started to chase Trainman, as soon as the doors open and they get off there is a big blue billboard for TASTEE WHEAT! thought this was hilarious when I noticed it the 2nd time around...also, when we see Neo's body being carried away by the machine in FIRE VISION (the orange glow stuff) isnt it possible they we are seeing that through Neo's point of view, justifiying that Neo's body died, but his mind/spirit are stil alive...