I thought it sounded fine. I'll be buying it. SOAD has a tendancy to grow on me anyways. When I first bought mesmerize I liked it, but none of the songs immediately stood out in my head. Then, after listening to it for a few weeks I grew very fond of almost all the songs on the album.
Same was true for toxicity. There were a few songs that immediately grabbed my attention, but as time went on the OTHER songs are the ones I really ended up loving.
I downloaded it, but I plan on buying it when it comes out. I dont see a problem with getting it early, means I can enjoy it now instead of whenever it comes out. ( I dont know the release date).
Hypnotize, Tentative, Holy Mountain, Kill Rock N Roll, Dreaming and Soldier Side are the top songs for me 😮💨
Originally posted by Sir Mist
I downloaded it, but I plan on buying it when it comes out. I dont see a problem with getting it early, means I can enjoy it now instead of whenever it comes out. ( I dont know the release date).
Exactly.
They decide they want their work out in the world at a certain time. Taking it before they want you to have it is ignorant.
I'm looking forward to this album because unlike nearly everyone here, I've not heard it.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
They do care, but leaking in this day and age is near inevitable. Serj has said he doesn't like it but he's also said that if people are gonna be impatient, he'd rather them do it through his own hand than having people downloading some dodgy copies on the net from some idiot.Which you all probably would have done anyway. It needs to stop.
Justin Hawkins (The Darkness) paid over £300 on eBay for a copy of their new album so that it didn't get leaked. Luckily they only distributed the album to a few music magazines and have the registration of who it was sent to. So he'll get busted and hopefully sued for all he's worth.
As long as you buy Hypnotise, then fine. I just think it's shit to be impatient.
-AC
It's not ACTUALLY mine. It's a friend's, mine is ordered.
It's excellent obviously. It's different to Mezmerize, more than I thought it would be. I can't really make an actual judgement till I get it and listen to it a lot more. On first listen it's excellent and they usually get better with time.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah exactly. Laziness. It's wrong and there's no excuse.If you think you might be interested, buy it. If you don't like it, refund it for an album you do want. Some places give money back. Just buy from a store you KNOW does that. Simple.
No excuse for not buying.
-AC
Honestly, I don't know of a single local store that does that—and I refuse to buy music from these big chains or over the internet, except in the case of pre-ordering an album I really want, or buying something that's hard to find. I try to support artists, but I also try to support local businesses, and frankly I don't blame these places for not wanting customers to return stuff just because they don't like what they bought.
I can't see what's wrong with downloading a couple songs to get a feel of a new artist, then either deleting them or buying the CD.
The other thing is, sometimes I don't WANT the entire CD, just one or two songs. I don't have the money to be spending $15-20 for one tune. Surely an artist doesn't actually lose money over people doing that?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not ACTUALLY mine. It's a friend's, mine is ordered.It's excellent obviously. It's different to Mezmerize, more than I thought it would be. I can't really make an actual judgement till I get it and listen to it a lot more. On first listen it's excellent and they usually get better with time.
-AC
You haven't got it yet, have you.
Originally posted by Darth Revan
Honestly, I don't know of a single local store that does that—and I refuse to buy music from these big chains or over the internet, except in the case of pre-ordering an album I really want, or buying something that's hard to find. I try to support artists, but I also try to support local businesses, and frankly I don't blame these places for not wanting customers to return stuff just because they don't like what they bought.I can't see what's wrong with downloading a couple songs to get a feel of a new artist, then either deleting them or buying the CD.
The other thing is, sometimes I don't WANT the entire CD, just one or two songs. I don't have the money to be spending -20 for one tune. Surely an artist doesn't actually lose money over people doing that?
There is literally nowhere I can buy a CD and return it -- even stores like Best Buy and Target, the big chain stores, don't accept returns of opened CDs unless it's to exchange it for another copy of the same CD.
Originally posted by Darth Revan
Honestly, I don't know of a single local store that does that—and I refuse to buy music from these big chains or over the internet, except in the case of pre-ordering an album I really want, or buying something that's hard to find. I try to support artists, but I also try to support local businesses, and frankly I don't blame these places for not wanting customers to return stuff just because they don't like what they bought.
Well exactly my point. Because of your lack of effort, artists you claim to want to support, are losing out on you supporting them. It is lack of effort, too. Because you can easily get the CD's you want, you just don't want to.
You support local businesses in the face of big chains, because the smaller stores lose out, but you won't support the artist (who is more important) by just buying the CD. Why does it matter where you get it from as long as you get it? There's no excuse.
Originally posted by Darth Revan
I can't see what's wrong with downloading a couple songs to get a feel of a new artist, then either deleting them or buying the CD.
Because they are albums for a reason. The only time I can ever see that being reasonable is if you download the singles. The songs specified for solo release. It's still nowhere near as effective as hearing the album. You can't claim to support the artist if you're not adhering to their wishes with regards to their music.
Originally posted by Darth Revan
The other thing is, sometimes I don't WANT the entire CD, just one or two songs. I don't have the money to be spending $15-20 for one tune. Surely an artist doesn't actually lose money over people doing that?
Of course they do. It's always the people who have no clue how bad downloading music affects the artist who do it. I mean, there's a subjective side and an objectively wrong side.
The subjective side is me being of the belief that you shouldn't download bits of an album, that you should listen to it as intended. However, if you pay for it in the end, nobody is losing out. So my subjective belief isn't really a must.
The objective side is that, you can buy songs now, off iTunes. It's 99 cents each, American. If you want to hear the art that someone has created, you should pay for it. If you only want songs that you can't get unless you pay for them, then you should pay for them.
That's why it's disrespectful and that's why you're not supporting the artist. Because now that there are so many ways to easily and cheaply pay for the art and support the artist, people STILL are trying to weasel out of doing it. I don't believe there is any excuse for selling out, any, but it's no wonder bands are starting to promote themselves more. It's got to a point where record SALES are increasingly important because without money constantly coming in, bands can't tour or put out music. That's why it's important to pay for it. If it's worth your time, it's worth your money. Not only that, but internet is full of shit copies and bs recordings. It's not fair to the artist that they have worked to perfect their work and you just download the Joe Nobody version and think "Ehh, not buying this."
There's no excuse to free download:
If it's a non-single song you want, buy the song off iTunes.
If it's a single, buy the single.
If you like the band already, buy the album. There's no excuse for not paying for music nowadays, is my point. None.
The more and more options are provided, the more "fans" try to weasel out of paying.
-AC
You do realize that iTunes has a shit selection, yes? 😉 AND in the case of if you don't like it and delete it, you've just lost the money you paid.
If I like a band already, then I'll buy the CD, no questions about it.
If it's a band I've never heard of before I'll download a single or two to see how I like it. If I like it, I'll buy the CD, if I don't, I'll delete those tracks.
But I can't afford to buy things on the off-chance that it may be good if it's something I've never heard before; I have a very limited money supply and unfortunately buying new CDs is not as high on the priority list as I'd like it to be. There is literally nowhere I can buy CDs and return it and get a refund. And I have checked at every store in my area that sells CDs, so it's not a case of me being lazy....and I don't buy online because I've been screwed with my orders getting messed up from that before. Not worth the trouble.
Originally posted by Lana
You do realize that iTunes has a shit selection, yes? 😉 AND in the case of if you don't like it and delete it, you've just lost the money you paid.
All 99 cents, big deal. That's the only argument people can make. If you're not willing to part with your money for music, don't be a part of music. Either buy it or stop downloading. iTunes music store has thousands upon thousands of albums. Saying it has a shit selection suggests you've never looked.
Originally posted by Lana
If I like a band already, then I'll buy the CD, no questions about it.If it's a band I've never heard of before I'll download a single or two to see how I like it. If I like it, I'll buy the CD, if I don't, I'll delete those tracks.
It doesn't even have to get as far as illegal downloading. Most band sites have previews, Amazon has previews. There's no excuse anymore for illegally or freely downloading whole songs.
Originally posted by Lana
But I can't afford to buy things on the off-chance that it may be good if it's something I've never heard before; I have a very limited money supply and unfortunately buying new CDs is not as high on the priority list as I'd like it to be. There is literally nowhere I can buy CDs and return it and get a refund. And I have checked at every store in my area that sells CDs, so it's not a case of me being lazy....and I don't buy online because I've been screwed with my orders getting messed up from that before. Not worth the trouble.
Amazon and Play literally never screw up orders and if they do, they rectify them within days. I've never ever had a dodgy deal on the net and I've ordered from less reputable dealers than those two. It's lack of effort, that's all it is. If you really wanted to buy albums, you could do so online and often for a lot cheaper. You make the choice not to so therefore you can't say it's not lack of effort. You said yourself "Not worth the trouble." Considering there is no trouble, it must mean the music isn't worth it. Yet if it's worth your time, it's worth your money.
More to the point, if you don't have the money, what makes you think you have the right to own an album or a song that you haven't paid for? There's a really cool Converge sweater jacket I want, I can't afford it right now. Should I steal it? No. If you want an album badly and you don't have the money, then you shouldn't have the album.
And yes, it is stealing. Stealing doesn't apply to tangible objects alone.
-AC
Actually, most CDs I can't get online for cheaper as it's costs the same as at a store, plus shipping. I simply don't like buying things online if I can get it elsewhere, for that reason and the fact that the mail service in my area sucks and it's not unknown for things to not get delivered.
I have looked at iTunes' selection before and am lucky to find anything decent on there at any given time. They cater to the mainstream for the most part.
30 seconds of a song isn't enough to let you know if you like it or not....
I don't LIKE downloading. But I simply cannot afford to buy something if I don't know I will like it or not; I can't take the risk of buying something without hearing at the very least one full song off it to see if it's something that I'd like; considering the fact that on average CDs cost $15, 1 single CD right there is about an eighth of one of my paychecks. If it's one that I KNOW I'll like, by a band I love, I'll get it anyway - like I'll be getting SOAD tomorrow even though I really don't have any spare money until next week....though it's worth it. Every single thing I've downloaded I've wound up buying later when I had the money. You know this, I have told you this before. It's simply a question of priorities, and when it comes down to being able to buy gas so I can get to work or school, or getting a new CD...well...I really have no chance of affording that CD if I can't get to work, yes? You know very well that if I could afford to I'd buy every CD that I possibly could.
Originally posted by Lana
Actually, most CDs I can't get online for cheaper as it's costs the same as at a store, plus shipping. I simply don't like buying things online if I can get it elsewhere, for that reason and the fact that the mail service in my area sucks and it's not unknown for things to not get delivered.
Well retail recommended price for American CDs is $15. You can get new releases for as low as $10 on Amazon.com.
Originally posted by Lana
I have looked at iTunes' selection before and am lucky to find anything decent on there at any given time. They cater to the mainstream for the most part.
What? They have thousands upon thousands of albums. They have stuff that most people will have never heard. Almost every album I own is on there. You've clearly not looked hard enough.
Originally posted by Lana
30 seconds of a song isn't enough to let you know if you like it or not....I don't LIKE downloading. But I simply cannot afford to buy something if I don't know I will like it or not; I can't take the risk of buying something without hearing at the very least one full song off it to see if it's something that I'd like; considering the fact that on average CDs cost $15, 1 single CD right there is about an eighth of one of my paychecks. Every single thing I've downloaded I've wound up buying later when I had the money. You know this, I have told you this before.
Well the singles are cheap. Or even if you hear it on the radio. There's no excuse for illegal downloading, at all. Anymore. None.
If a band chooses to put their album or songs on MySpace or whatever legal programs there are, fine. That comes back to my subjective belief that you should wait. However, if you're not illegally downloading it without the bands permission, if it's through their own hand, I don't have a problem. As long as it gets paid for. Though the only reason bands like System are putting their albums up is because of illegal downloaders.
The bottom line is: Bands shouldn't have to fight for their fans to hear good copies of their songs. Their fans should wait and pay for them, simple as that.
-AC
Admittedly I haven't looked on iTunes recently...but since I wasn't able to find Tool on there before....yeah.
Read the bit about my mail not always making it to my home (which you know about already), which makes me hesitant to buy online 😛
I used to be able to hear most everything decent on the radio, but the only good radio station in Chicago has vanished. Sucks, especially as you could purchase singles through their site for about $.75. I really do try and avoid downloading. I don't like it. You know very well I don't, and that I better than most understand how it's stealing. If I can find it on myspace or elsewhere for a listen, then I'll check there first. Or if I can, listen to the CD at the store. I just like to know if I'll like something before I get it.
Though I have to say what sucks worse that getting a CD you don't like, is liking a CD when you buy it and then getting sick of it later. Bleh, I hate that 😬 in those cases I usually try and find a friend who'd like it, because I hate throwing away something that I paid money for.
"Well exactly my point. Because of your lack of effort, artists you claim to want to support, are losing out on you supporting them. It is lack of effort, too. Because you can easily get the CD's you want, you just don't want to.
You support local businesses in the face of big chains, because the smaller stores lose out, but you won't support the artist (who is more important) by just buying the CD. Why does it matter where you get it from as long as you get it? There's no excuse."
How can you say "there's no excuse" when I just stated two reasons for my thinking? "The artist is more important" is a massively subjective statement. I try to support both the artist and local business, but when it comes down to it, the guy who owns my local record shop needs my money more than any multi-millionaire musician.
I have no idea where this "It is lack of effort, too. Because you can easily get the CD's you want, you just don't want to." came from, since I actually said that I never download entire albums.
"Because they are albums for a reason. The only time I can ever see that being reasonable is if you download the singles. The songs specified for solo release. It's still nowhere near as effective as hearing the album. You can't claim to support the artist if you're not adhering to their wishes with regards to their music."
As I said, I don't know of any stores here that will give full refunds/trades on opened music. Maybe Wal Mart or someplace, but I absolutely refuse to contribute to those places. I simply can't afford to be spending the amount of money a CD is worth every time I sort of want an album.
"Of course they do. It's always the people who have no clue how bad downloading music affects the artist who do it. I mean, there's a subjective side and an objectively wrong side.
The subjective side is me being of the belief that you shouldn't download bits of an album, that you should listen to it as intended. However, if you pay for it in the end, nobody is losing out. So my subjective belief isn't really a must.
The objective side is that, you can buy songs now, off iTunes. It's 99 cents each, American. If you want to hear the art that someone has created, you should pay for it. If you only want songs that you can't get unless you pay for them, then you should pay for them."
iTunes does not carry Tool, Metallica, The Beatles, or Led Zepplin. Just to give you an idea of some of the major artists whose labels won't let Apple have their music.
"That's why it's disrespectful and that's why you're not supporting the artist. Because now that there are so many ways to easily and cheaply pay for the art and support the artist, people STILL are trying to weasel out of doing it. I don't believe there is any excuse for selling out, any, but it's no wonder bands are starting to promote themselves more. It's got to a point where record SALES are increasingly important because without money constantly coming in, bands can't tour or put out music. That's why it's important to pay for it. If it's worth your time, it's worth your money. Not only that, but internet is full of shit copies and bs recordings. It's not fair to the artist that they have worked to perfect their work and you just download the Joe Nobody version and think 'Ehh, not buying this.'"
As I have said, I have never "not bought" an album. The only reasons I download music are a) to get some feel of a new artist (not analyze them thoroughly as you seem to think I implied) b) to get ahold of a song not availible anywhere else, or c) to get ahold of a song from an album that I don't want to waste fifteen bucks on.
I do buy off iTunes as well, but iTunes often either does not have certain music, or only has highly edited versions of certain music.
What I meant by saying it does little harm to steal one or two songs is that some of these artists are paid millions upon millions of dollars per year. I am more hesitant to download music by local or lesser-known acts, but I sincerely doubt that James Hetfield's already lavish lifestyle actually suffers any when somebody doesn't buy his music.
In short, I know of no record shops that give full refunds on listened-to music, and I don't have enough money to be throwing it around right and left at anything I might like.
Walmart won't let you return opened CDs, plus they usually only carry edited versions of the albums, not to mention a totally shit selection. Target will, but only to exchange it for another copy of the same thing, but they're selection usually isn't too great either.
"to get ahold of a song not availible anywhere else"
Good point....what about songs you CAN'T buy? B-sides, demos, etc...unless the artist decides to put them on an album, you're SOL.