Cyclops / Scott Summers

Originally posted by pr1983
Nope, not at all... put it this way, you're a married man/woman, and for the last 6 months (or longer), you've been having trouble at home... then someone you've always found attractive is nearby and obviously is as attracted to you as you are to them, and you think maybe, maybe, things would be better with that other someone, they'd understand your loneliness better than anyone...

that is, to me at least, incredibly tempting... it takes alot, for anyone (at least imo), to resist that temptation...

I would hope if I was that tempted by someone else, I would think enough of my spouse to try to make things work before I did something I could never undo. Especially if my spouse and I have been through everything Jean and Scott have.

Originally posted by Sabretooth
I agree that they are both victims and offenders, but disagree that Scott's actions are more reasonable than those of Jean.

* and your reason of Jean's offense is: PIS? c'mon, "pal"... Cykes offense is more in-depth of a person, it tends more to the ordinary promptings of a person...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Oh Cyclops definitely grieved for Jean, maybe even more than Wolverine. However, Wolverine's emotions are more on a primal level than Cyclops' so they deal with death and sorrow in different ways. Wolverine internalizes everything being the gruff loner that he is (which my therapist keeps telling me is REAL bad) and Cyclops knocks up the first chick he can find that looks like Jean. Scott probably felt more grief but Logan probably went through more emotional pain.

* Logan IS a loner, he just went back to basics... Cyke IS ALWAYS with Jean from the start... i imagine maybe if Cyke hadn't done what he did with Madelyne, he would have broke down to pieces emotionally... i'm not justifying what Cyke but it is more reasonable than those of Jean...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Okay, "pal". I think maybe you're forgetting that mental contact with a telepath is a bit more in depth than just a simple daydream or talking with someone else with thoughts. We are talking about the unification of two completely separate minds. Two people sharing their mentality with one another is far more intimate than anything in the physical realm. I have been with a few women physically, but there are very few people in this world who I will tell my innermost thoughts. Mrs. Sabretooth happens to be one of them. I'm going to keep her around a long time for the reason. That is why if some hairy little jerk kept hitting of her, something wet would happen to him.

* ya know, "pal", Cyke and Jean have psychic rapport, they can "talk" whenever, wherever and whatever they want... it's somewhat impossible for Jean not to know what is bothering Cyke, she knows but never showed Cyke the way a wife should console a sulking husband...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Cyke can blow Logan's head off with one click? Um, no.

* uhm, yes... if AOA Cyke blasted Logan's hands off, Logan's neck won't be a problem either...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
And did you just call Scott a "faithful husband"? Excuse me while I go spit out the little bit of puke I just coughed up reading that ridicules statement...

* okay, my bad... but maybe you should consider the context of my post, not just the "word"...

"but as a faithful husband, he knows Jean loves him and would tell off Logan, but Cyke was ever so wrong... Jean failed Cykes faith in her..."

* my point is: as Jean's husband, Cyke trusts that Jean would brush off Logan, but no... deep down inside, Jean got "reservations" for Logan... no need to deny it, "pal", Marvel.com testifies Jean's physical attraction to Logan...

* had Cyke died instead of Jean, the "notorious" affair would Jean and Logan's...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
It's called PIS. Plot Induced Stupidity. They ***** about it all the time in the comic book vs. forums. It happens all the time to characters who have more than one writer. Everybody has different ideas about how certain characters would handle different situations. Once again let me quote Jean in her farewell to Scott:

"Live Scott. All I ever did was die on you."

Does that sound like someone who puts their own feelings before those of her loved one?

#117 Should not have happened but it did. You don't have to be sorry, it's not your fault. You didn't write it.

* it sounds like she's stating an absolute fact... all she really does was die on Cyke... that does NOT prove nor justify Jean's physical attraction to Logan... that does NOT even prove Jean did brush Logan off... your proof was too shallow...

* seriously, i never imagined someone a bombshell as Jean having attracted to a prehistoric gorilla like Logan, the love triangle sucks, actually... the fact that Wolverine got more fanboys than any superheroes i can imagine, it makes Cyke the villain, the third party, the weasel which should be branded on Logan because he's the one who's interfering... and no thanks for Jean NOT telling Logan to shut the hell up... i remember Logan hitting on Mary Jane Watson-Parker when Peter was supposedly dead, here's a diss i'll never tire of reading:

MJ: "Peter was dead, I was in shock, you made a pass at me, and i smacked you."

Logan: "Yeaaahh...?"

MJ: "You knew I needed to get angry so i could work through the grief. So you made yourself a target. Gave me something to vent at. You were doing me a favor, and I didn't even realize it. Right?"

Logan: "Pretty much, yeah. You mad?"

MJ: "'Course not."

Logan: "How'd you figure it out?"

MJ: "I realized you would never REALLY have hit on me since you must know, deep down, that I'd rather cut off my head than EVER go out with you."

Logan: "Ah. Got it."

MJ: "Thanks again."

Logan: "Not a probl--"

Logan: "Wait... was that a compliment or a dis?"

* i salute Mary Jane here... Jean was outclassed...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Whatever blows your sails. I disagree.

* same with me, "pal", same with me... 😆

Originally posted by Sabretooth
I would hope if I was that tempted by someone else, I would think enough of my spouse to try to make things work before I did something I could never undo. Especially if my spouse and I have been through everything Jean and Scott have.

But thats the thing, you and i can both say we'd be faithful to our spouses, but when we're right there, that choice right in front of us?

and i dont think the decision reflects on the spouse, more on the persons fears and doubts... jean wasn't thinking "oh, i shouldnt do this to scott," she was thinking "i'm so alone right now, and my partner doesnt want me..."

at least thats how i see it...

Originally posted by peejayd
* and your reason of Jean's offense is: PIS? c'mon, "pal"... Cykes offense is more in-depth of a person, it tends more to the ordinary promptings of a person...

Yeah I know. Ordinary people ditch their wives and kids everyday. They're called "deadbeats" and "losers".

Originally posted by peejayd
* Logan IS a loner, he just went back to basics... Cyke IS ALWAYS with Jean from the start... i imagine maybe if Cyke hadn't done what he did with Madelyne, he would have broke down to pieces emotionally... i'm not justifying what Cyke but it is more reasonable than those of Jean...

So you're telling me he got with a woman who looked and acted a lot like Jean just to get through his grief? Wow. Talk about using somebody and only thinking about your own feelings. Then he even has a kid with her and DITCHES BOTH OF THEM because he is once again only thinking about his own feelings when he finds out Jean is alive. You think having the hots for and even kissing some other guy is worse than leaving your wife and kid without any notice? Bad, but NOWHERE near as bad.

Originally posted by peejayd
* ya know, "pal", Cyke and Jean have psychic rapport, they can "talk" whenever, wherever and whatever they want... it's somewhat impossible for Jean not to know what is bothering Cyke, she knows but never showed Cyke the way a wife should console a sulking husband...

That's right. Jean and Scott had a special bond that only they shared, until Emma slimed her way in as well. It almost makes it that much worse since Emma dared tread on a place sacred to only Scott and Jean. Even worse is the fact that Scott let her. "she knows but never showed Cyke the way a wife should console a sulking husband..."? It almost sounds like you think a woman's place in this world is only to cater and nurture her man. Last time I looked, marriage was a 50/50 partnership. I know your wrestling programs are teaching our kids that woman are to only be objectified or beaten up, but that IS all pretend. Ever notice how there really arn't a whole lot of female wrestling fans? Kind of makes you think, eh? Women have a lot bigger role in relationships and the world at large than to just be there to wipe her man's nose for him.

Originally posted by peejayd
* uhm, yes... if AOA Cyke blasted Logan's hands off, Logan's neck won't be a problem either...

I've seen Cyclops get worked by Storm without her powers. You think Wolverine is weaker or stronger than Storm without her powers?

Trained killer > Deadbeat dad and husband

Originally posted by peejayd
* okay, my bad... but maybe you should consider the context of my post, not just the "word"...

"but as a faithful husband, he knows Jean loves him and would tell off Logan, but Cyke was ever so wrong... Jean failed Cykes faith in her..."

* my point is: as Jean's husband, Cyke trusts that Jean would brush off Logan, but no... deep down inside, Jean got "reservations" for Logan... no need to deny it, "pal", Marvel.com testifies Jean's physical attraction to Logan...

Yep. Wolvies a pimp. Lots of women in the Marvel universe have the hots for him. Tyger Tiger says it's because of his animal magnetism. I do not have the hots for him, so I have no idea what it is. However, there are a lot of girls I think are hot. Yet, there is only one I love. See the difference? How long did it take for Jean to express her displeasure when she saw that Psylocke was catching Scott's eye? Two panels? Maybe Scott should have followed his wife's example and been a bit more vocal. Guess we know witch one wore the pants in that relationship. By the way, I've noticed you dropped the "faithful" part of your point. Backpedaling already?

Originally posted by peejayd
* had Cyke died instead of Jean, the "notorious" affair would Jean and Logan's...

It wouldn't have been an affair because she wouldn't have been married to someone else to have an affair on. Your boy has done it twice.

Originally posted by peejayd
* it sounds like she's stating an absolute fact... all she really does was die on Cyke... that does NOT prove nor justify Jean's physical attraction to Logan... that does NOT even prove Jean did brush Logan off... your proof was too shallow...

She wants him to be happy, even if it's without her. The ultimate selfless act from a romantic standpoint. What has Scott ever done that wasn't centered on his own feelings? Lead the team? He was focusing on the team so he didn't have to face his own problems. Selfish and a coward.

Originally posted by peejayd
* seriously, i never imagined someone a bombshell as Jean having attracted to a prehistoric gorilla like Logan, the love triangle sucks, actually... the fact that Wolverine got more fanboys than any superheroes i can imagine, it makes Cyke the villain, the third party, the weasel which should be branded on Logan because he's the one who's interfering... and no thanks for Jean NOT telling Logan to shut the hell up... i remember Logan hitting on Mary Jane Watson-Parker when Peter was supposedly dead, here's a diss i'll never tire of reading:

MJ: "Peter was dead, I was in shock, you made a pass at me, and i smacked you."

Logan: "Yeaaahh...?"

MJ: "You knew I needed to get angry so i could work through the grief. So you made yourself a target. Gave me something to vent at. You were doing me a favor, and I didn't even realize it. Right?"

Logan: "Pretty much, yeah. You mad?"

MJ: "'Course not."

Logan: "How'd you figure it out?"

MJ: "I realized you would never REALLY have hit on me since you must know, deep down, that I'd rather cut off my head than EVER go out with you."

Logan: "Ah. Got it."

MJ: "Thanks again."

Logan: "Not a probl--"

Logan: "Wait... was that a compliment or a dis?"

* i salute Mary Jane here... Jean was outclassed...

Sure looks to me like you have a real mad-on for Wolverine. Fine. I'll respect that. I have a feeling that if we replaced Wolverine in this equation with someone you liked, your perception would be a whole lot different. I almost think you have a bigger problem with who Jean did it with than what she did in the first place. You can keep hugging Cyke's nuts if you want, but the lions share of the guilt should lie with him. Jean crossed the line, Cyclops kicked the line's ass. Just ask either of the wives he cheated on or the child he abandoned.

* an excerpt from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclops_%28comics%29

Return to the (New) X-Men

Upon Cyclops' return to the X-Men following his possession, there was a rather drastic change in his personality. This change caused a rift to develop between Jean and himself, as he would claim that Apocalypse made him question not only their relationship, but his life as a whole. He was instrumental in preventing the mutant Xorn's suicide and in recruiting the powerful mutant to the X-men. Surprisingly the two established a close friendship, an event almost unprecedented in Cyclops' personal history; similarly, repeated missions with Wolverine resulted in the growth of a tentative friendship between the two veteran X-Men.

When Jean began to show signs of the Phoenix Force again, the distance between the two grew larger and Scott began what others would dub his "celibacy kick." For her part Jean refused to interact with him telepathically (despite his repeated requests that she do so) and it was intimated by other characters that she had secretly grown contemptuous of him, disgusted by what she perceived as his "weakness." Instead of attempting to reconcile with his estranged-wife, Scott turned to Emma Frost, a former villain who had reformed and joined the X-Men. Their relationship ostensibly began as a series of psychic therapy sessions, but Emma took advantage of this situation to get closer to Scott. Under the guise of counseling him, she was able to instigate a telepathic affair.

When Phoenix discovered the affair, Cyclops made the claim that they had shared only thoughts and thus he had done nothing wrong. Meanwhile Emma's snide jeers led Jean to psychically confront her; she forced Emma to admit her true feelings for Scott, and also come to terms with her many failures, sins and personal demons. Furious, Scott once again confronted Jean and demanded that she read his mind; Jean finally complied, only to discover that Scott and Emma had never actually engaged in any physical contact. Confused by this turn of events, Jean insisted to herself that their thinking about having an affair was equivalent to their actually having had one. Scott however had grown sick of the entire ordeal and subsequently left the X-Men to mull over what was happening to his life. He wandered the country for a while, patronizing the Hellfire Club, keeping company with Wolverine and Fantomex, and generally trying to escape the responsibilities, expectations and demands he felt were unjustly placed on him by the X-Men. During his time with Wolverine it was revealed that he felt his relationship with Jean had stagnated and that the two of them had not progressed romantically since their initial teenage romance. He also confessed that he felt Jean refused to listen to him, and that his attraction to Emma had been due in large part to her more accepting nature. When he finally returned to the X-Men, the sentient DNA known as John Sublime had taken control of the original Xorn who, under the guise of Magneto, attacked the X-Men. Having at last reached full Phoenix power, Jean confronted the Faux-Magneto and was killed in the process. Before she died, she urged Cyclops to live on.

Scott however felt devastated by the death of his wife, and considered leaving the X-Men once more. It was revealed in the "Here Comes Tomorrow" storyline that, had he done so, it would have led to an apocolyptic future. To prevent this, a resurrected, future-version of Jean used her powers as the White Phoenix of the Crown and telepathically nudged Cyclops into a real relationship with Emma. Together the pair rebuilt the Xavier Institute as Co-Headmasters.

The new relationship between Emma and Scott has led to problems between them and the rest of the X-Men, all of whom believe that the pair are doing Jean's memory a disservice. Rachel Grey in particular has felt hurt and angry by her father's lack of remorse for hurting Jean before her death.

* the story is blatant... Jean is very unreasonable... reasonable it may seem, it's far less reasonable compared to Cyke's... 😉

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Yeah I know. Ordinary people ditch their wives and kids everyday. They're called "deadbeats" and "losers".

* as i said earlier, i do not tend to justify Cyke's offenses...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
So you're telling me he got with a woman who looked and acted a lot like Jean just to get through his grief? Wow. Talk about using somebody and only thinking about your own feelings. Then he even has a kid with her and DITCHES BOTH OF THEM because he is once again only thinking about his own feelings when he finds out Jean is alive. You think having the hots for and even kissing some other guy is worse than leaving your wife and kid without any notice? Bad, but NOWHERE near as bad.

* here's the problem: the topic is the relationship of Cyke and Jean... try answering without going outside that bracket...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
That's right. Jean and Scott had a special bond that only they shared, until Emma slimed her way in as well. It almost makes it that much worse since Emma dared tread on a place sacred to only Scott and Jean. Even worse is the fact that Scott let her. "she knows but never showed Cyke the way a wife should console a sulking husband..."? It almost sounds like you think a woman's place in this world is only to cater and nurture her man. Last time I looked, marriage was a 50/50 partnership.

* Jean knows Cyke acts differently after being merged with Apocalypse... now, you want a sulking husband to console a problemless wife? wow...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
I know your wrestling programs are teaching our kids that woman are to only be objectified or beaten up, but that IS all pretend. Ever notice how there really arn't a whole lot of female wrestling fans? Kind of makes you think, eh? Women have a lot bigger role in relationships and the world at large than to just be there to wipe her man's nose for him.

* this has nothing to do with my sig... or i think you're going personal... that's a no-no...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
I've seen Cyclops get worked by Storm without her powers.

* yeah, i think you just "saw" it and never even read it... Cyke was emotionally troubled... and why would he be emotionally troubled in the first place if he doesn't have any concerns for Madelyne and Nathan? you're biased... another thing, being emotionally troubled never dulled Cyke as he leg-threw Storm, doesn't it? it's just not Cyke's day...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
You think Wolverine is weaker or stronger than Storm without her powers?

Trained killer > Deadbeat dad and husband

* optic blast >>> trained killer...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Yep. Wolvies a pimp. Lots of women in the Marvel universe have the hots for him. Tyger Tiger says it's because of his animal magnetism. I do not have the hots for him, so I have no idea what it is. However, there are a lot of girls I think are hot. Yet, there is only one I love. See the difference? How long did it take for Jean to express her displeasure when she saw that Psylocke was catching Scott's eye? Two panels? Maybe Scott should have followed his wife's example and been a bit more vocal. Guess we know witch one wore the pants in that relationship.

* Cyke and Logan had brawled many times because of her, didn't that ring any bell? actions speak louder than words...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
By the way, I've noticed you dropped the "faithful" part of your point. Backpedaling already?

* i said, "my bad"... consider the context... my point was: as Jean's husband, Cyke trusts that Jean would brush off Logan, but no... deep down inside, Jean got "reservations" for Logan...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
It wouldn't have been an affair because she wouldn't have been married to someone else to have an affair on. Your boy has done it twice.

* oh? wasn't Jean married to Scott... oh... 😕

Originally posted by Sabretooth
She wants him to be happy, even if it's without her. The ultimate selfless act from a romantic standpoint. What has Scott ever done that wasn't centered on his own feelings? Lead the team? He was focusing on the team so he didn't have to face his own problems. Selfish and a coward.

* even in the heat of a battle, Cyke even goes to Jean to tend her welfare, is that selfish? Cyke had held his own against a mutant with healing powers and deadly instincts and rages, is that coward? you sure are VERY biased...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Sure looks to me like you have a real mad-on for Wolverine. Fine. I'll respect that. I have a feeling that if we replaced Wolverine in this equation with someone you liked, your perception would be a whole lot different. I almost think you have a bigger problem with who Jean did it with than what she did in the first place. You can keep hugging Cyke's nuts if you want, but the lions share of the guilt should lie with him. Jean crossed the line, Cyclops kicked the line's ass. Just ask either of the wives he cheated on or the child he abandoned.

* ooohh! nice personal touch there, but ironically you respect my opinion...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
I have a feeling that if we replaced Wolverine in this equation with someone you liked, your perception would be a whole lot different.

* sorry, you're wrong... my opinion still stands...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
I almost think you have a bigger problem with who Jean did it with than what she did in the first place.

* i repeat: the topic is the relationship of Cyke and Jean... try answering without going outside that bracket... again, you're wrong... my opinion will still stand...

* in the bracket of Scott and Jean's relationship, they both crossed the line... Scott - mentally, and Jean - physically... whose was more grave? 😕

"Instead of attempting to reconcile with his estranged-wife, Scott turned to Emma Frost, a former villain who had reformed and joined the X-Men. Their relationship ostensibly began as a series of psychic therapy sessions, but Emma took advantage of this situation to get closer to Scott. Under the guise of counseling him, she was able to instigate a telepathic affair."

Scott picks Emma over Jean part one...

"Meanwhile Emma's snide jeers led Jean to psychically confront her; she forced Emma to admit her true feelings for Scott, and also come to terms with her many failures, sins and personal demons. Furious, Scott once again confronted Jean and demanded that she read his mind..."

...Scott picks Emma over Jean part two.

"Scott however had grown sick of the entire ordeal and subsequently left the X-Men to mull over what was happening to his life. He wandered the country for a while, patronizing the Hellfire Club, keeping company with Wolverine and Fantomex, and generally trying to escape the responsibilities, expectations and demands he felt were unjustly placed on him by the X-Men."

Here he is acting all selfish again. What happened to the guy who stuck with the X-Men through all his grief? I guess when the going gets tough, Cyclops gets going. Wish he was my leader.

"Scott however felt devastated by the death of his wife, and considered leaving the X-Men once more."

Leaving the X-Men to go where? Emma's bedroom to help her out of those skimpy outfits?

"The new relationship between Emma and Scott has led to problems between them and the rest of the X-Men, all of whom believe that the pair are doing Jean's memory a disservice."

Here he puts his feelings above those of his friends and teammates...

"Rachel Grey in particular has felt hurt and angry by her father's lack of remorse for hurting Jean before her death."

...and his other child as well. That's two out of two kids that Cyclops has blown off while only thinking of himself. What a great role-model. Wish he was my dad.

Looks to me like Scott needs a lesson in accepting responsibility for his actions. He doesn't care who he hurts as long as he's happy.

It's funny how two different people can read the same thing and read two completely different things isn't it?

Originally posted by Sabretooth
[B]"Instead of attempting to reconcile with his estranged-wife, Scott turned to Emma Frost, a former villain who had reformed and joined the X-Men. Their relationship ostensibly began as a series of psychic therapy sessions, but Emma took advantage of this situation to get closer to Scott. Under the guise of counseling him, she was able to instigate a telepathic affair."

Scott picks Emma over Jean part one... [/B]

* why wouldn't he?

[For her part Jean refused to interact with him telepathically (despite his repeated requests that she do so) and it was intimated by other characters that she had secretly grown contemptuous of him, disgusted by what she perceived as his "weakness."]

* you didn't saw this either? oh? and the "wife" was intimated by other people and secretly grown contemptuous of his own husband... wow...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
[B]"Meanwhile Emma's snide jeers led Jean to psychically confront her; she forced Emma to admit her true feelings for Scott, and also come to terms with her many failures, sins and personal demons. Furious, Scott once again confronted Jean and demanded that she read his mind..."

...Scott picks Emma over Jean part two. [/B]

* then what happened next?

[Furious, Scott once again confronted Jean and demanded that she read his mind; Jean finally complied, only to discover that Scott and Emma had never actually engaged in any physical contact. Confused by this turn of events, Jean insisted to herself that their thinking about having an affair was equivalent to their actually having had one.]

* i got Cyke's point? you don't? the fact that Cyke demanded Jean to read his mind, his conscience is very clear: he and Emma really have a psychic affair BUT never done any physical contact... then?

* Jean insisted to herself that their thinking about having an affair was equivalent to their actually having had one... isn't that very unreasonable?

Originally posted by Sabretooth
[B]"Scott however had grown sick of the entire ordeal and subsequently left the X-Men to mull over what was happening to his life. He wandered the country for a while, patronizing the Hellfire Club, keeping company with Wolverine and Fantomex, and generally trying to escape the responsibilities, expectations and demands he felt were unjustly placed on him by the X-Men."

Here he is acting all selfish again. What happened to the guy who stuck with the X-Men through all his grief? I guess when the going gets tough, Cyclops gets going. Wish he was my leader. [/B]

* the man got merged with Apocalypse, don't you have any considerations?

Originally posted by Sabretooth
[B]"Scott however felt devastated by the death of his wife, and considered leaving the X-Men once more."

Leaving the X-Men to go where? Emma's bedroom to help her out of those skimpy outfits? [/B]

* a very biased comment... the excerpt tells Cyke considered leaving the X-men out of devastation by the death of Jean... hello? 😕

Originally posted by Sabretooth
[B]"The new relationship between Emma and Scott has led to problems between them and the rest of the X-Men, all of whom believe that the pair are doing Jean's memory a disservice."

Here he puts his feelings above those of his friends and teammates... [/B]

* yes, why did he do that?

[Scott however felt devastated by the death of his wife, and considered leaving the X-Men once more. It was revealed in the "Here Comes Tomorrow" storyline that, had he done so, it would have led to an apocolyptic future. To prevent this, a resurrected, future-version of Jean used her powers as the White Phoenix of the Crown and telepathically nudged Cyclops into a real relationship with Emma . Together the pair rebuilt the Xavier Institute as Co-Headmasters.]

* Cyke was supposed to leave the X-men, but that would lead to an apocalyptic future... and Jean as Phoenix nudged Cyke to Emma for him to recuperate sooner and not to leave the team...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
[B]"Rachel Grey in particular has felt hurt and angry by her father's lack of remorse for hurting Jean before her death."

...and his other child as well. That's two out of two kids that Cyclops has blown off while only thinking of himself. What a great role-model. Wish he was my dad. [/B]

* and where were the two kids when their relationship was in chaos? you excluded the kids when their relationship was in chaos but included them when it was over to aggravate the blame to Cyke only... very biased again...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Looks to me like Scott needs a lesson in accepting responsibility for his actions. He doesn't care who he hurts as long as he's happy.

* so he's not a model dad nor husband... but Jean also isn't model wife nor mom... the way i see it, Jean made a very little attempt of salvaging their relationship... "Jean refused to interact with him telepathically (despite his repeated requests that she do so)"... nice job, wife...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
It's funny how two different people can read the same thing and read two completely different things isn't it?

* yes... 😉

Originally posted by peejayd
* as i said earlier, i do not tend to justify Cyke's offenses...

That's funny, because when I see you say things like:

"and, a phychic affair is more tolerable, more reasonable than a physical one..."

and:

"Cykes offense is more in-depth of a person, it tends more to the ordinary promptings of a person..."

It sure looks like justification to me.

Originally posted by peejayd
* here's the problem: the topic is the relationship of Cyke and Jean... try answering without going outside that bracket...

No, the topic is the relationship between Scott and Jean, Scott and Emma, Scott and Maddie, Scott and Baby Nathan, Scott and Logan, Scott and his team, Scott and his daughter Rachael, Jean and Logan, Jean and Emma and Jean and Maddie. Scott has a loooong history of selfish behavior. The emotional pain he has inflicted on others and continues to inflict cannot be ignored, ever if it is being ignored by Scott.

Originally posted by peejayd
* Jean knows Cyke acts differently after being merged with Apocalypse... now, you want a sulking husband to console a problemless wife? wow...

50/50 like I said. Both partners have a role. Both have responsibility to the other. One should not be putting their feelings before those of their spouse. Both Jean and Scott are guilty of this. Scott is just more guilty.

Originally posted by peejayd
* this has nothing to do with my sig... or i think you're going personal... that's a no-no...

A sig can say so much about a person. Mine suggests I'm am a Sabretooth fan. I am. Yours suggests you enjoy watching professional wrestling. Would you argue that professional wrestling does not objectify women? Or that there is a much greater number of male wrestling fans than female? I simply made an observation. If you take being associated with professional wrestling as an insult, I would seriously change your sig.

Originally posted by peejayd
* yeah, i think you just "saw" it and never even read it... Cyke was emotionally troubled... and why would he be emotionally troubled in the first place if he doesn't have any concerns for Madelyne and Nathan? you're biased... another thing, being emotionally troubled never dulled Cyke as he leg-threw Storm, doesn't it? it's just not Cyke's day...

When is Cyclops NOT emotionally troubled? When is Wolverine not emotionally troubled? We can go on and on about this and never put a dent in the other's resolve. How about if we agree they will kill each other and call it a draw?

Originally posted by peejayd
* Cyke and Logan had brawled many times because of her, didn't that ring any bell? actions speak louder than words...

Logan wasn't the one Scott needed to talk to about Jean/Logan thing. Well, yeah he was, but he needed to talk to Jean as well. Besides they also fought a lot just because they didn't like one another, not only about Jean (but it was always in the back of both their minds).

Originally posted by peejayd
* i said, "my bad"... consider the context... my point was: as Jean's husband, Cyke trusts that Jean would brush off Logan, but no... deep down inside, Jean got "reservations" for Logan...

And Scott Had 'em for Maddie, Psylocke and Emma. What's your point? There is a difference between physical attraction and love.

Originally posted by peejayd
* oh? wasn't Jean married to Scott... oh... 😕

" 'Til death do us part" usually suggests the marriage is over when one of the participants is dead. Hence, no "affair". It's not like Jean would be replacing Scott with a Scott look-alike or anything. She would just have a lot more exiting private life.

Originally posted by peejayd
* even in the heat of a battle, Cyke even goes to Jean to tend her welfare, is that selfish? Cyke had held his own against a mutant with healing powers and deadly instincts and rages, is that coward? you sure are VERY biased...

I man who can fight in battle day after day yet not face responsibility to his "loved ones"? Yes, that man is a COWARD.

Originally posted by peejayd
* ooohh! nice personal touch there, but ironically you respect my opinion...

Yes, I do. You debate intelligently and bring up many good points. I just think you are too emotionally biased when debating about anything concerning Logan. And YES, this also concerns Logan.

Originally posted by peejayd
* in the bracket of Scott and Jean's relationship, they both crossed the line... Scott - mentally, and Jean - physically... whose was more grave? 😕

I have answered this already. If telepathy were in the real world, there would be only one person in my thoughts. That to me is the ultimate trust. Any person can have a physical relationship with someone else. It happens every day. How many people do you think would let someone else see their most private thoughts, fears and dreams? Probably not very damn many.

Originally posted by Sabretooth
I have answered this already. If telepathy were in the real world, there would be only one person in my thoughts. That to me is the ultimate trust. Any person can have a physical relationship with someone else. It happens every day. How many people do you think would let someone else see their most private thoughts, fears and dreams? Probably not very damn many.

just a comment about that last part... jean and the professor shared a psychic bond also, and i never saw scott complain, and emma said it herself, telepaths think themselves above other people... so to jean, a psychic affair had a lot more weight behind it than a physical one than it did for scott...

and guys, to be fair, we keep disputing whether scott or jean should shoulder most of the blame...

what about emma? hank told her to keep her nose out of it, yet she persisted, taking advantage of scott's vulnerability (i'm not saying he's innocent, but he had to be nudged at the very least).

and to be fair, i've seen a lot of guys swoon over emma on this forum, now imagine her being real, in front of you and wanting you, when your own wife wont give you the time of day...

i think it would take a massive amount of willpower to resist that, even for me (and i prefer brunettes 😛)

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Yeah I know. Ordinary people ditch their wives and kids everyday. They're called "deadbeats" and "losers"

50% of marriages end in divorce. Are all these people "deadbeats" and "losers"?

So you're telling me he got with a woman who looked and acted a lot like Jean just to get through his grief? Wow. Talk about using somebody and only thinking about your own feelings. Then he even has a kid with her and DITCHES BOTH OF THEM because he is once again only thinking about his own feelings when he finds out Jean is alive. You think having the hots for and even kissing some other guy is worse than leaving your wife and kid without any notice? Bad, but NOWHERE near as bad.

Marrying Madeleine was clearly a mistake, but at the time Scott genuinely thought he loved her for who she was, not for who she looked like. Obviously that was stupid on his part. Clearly the marriage had an unhealthy premise. That is one of the reasons why it ended up making them miserable, and Scott eventually moved out of the house.

Still, although Cyke´s behavior was quite bad at the time. He did tell Madeleine he was going to see Warren and later he tried to reach Madeleine. If Madeleine and the child had not been abducted by Marauders, their marriage would have ended in just another divorce.

I've seen Cyclops get worked by Storm without her powers. You think Wolverine is weaker or stronger than Storm without her powers?

Trained killer > Deadbeat dad and husband

Cyclops has on other occasions done well against both Storm and Wolverine. Logan himself has said that there´s no one he´d rather have in his corner than Scott.

What has Scott ever done that wasn't centered on his own feelings? Lead the team? He was focusing on the team so he didn't have to face his own problems. Selfish and a coward.

Originally posted by pr1983
and guys, to be fair, we keep disputing whether scott or jean should shoulder most of the blame...

what about emma? hank told her to keep her nose out of it, yet she persisted, taking advantage of scott's vulnerability (i'm not saying he's innocent, but he had to be nudged at the very least).

Finally you and I completely agree on something Cyke. I think Emma gets the most blame out of everybody. Damn hussy. She completely took advantage of Scott when he was at his most vulnerable. That's the biggest reason I'm cheesed off at Scott for defending her to Jean.

Originally posted by Drifter
50% of marriages end in divorce. Are all these people "deadbeats" and "losers"?

Oh no. I'm going to let you put words in my mouth that easily. Two people not getting along even after trying to work out their problems is a whole lot different than leaving your wife and son without so much as a goodbye. Would you disagree? Or do you think Madelyne did something to deserve Scott's treatment of her, other then looking like Jean in the first place? She found out he left her from a TELEVISION COMMERCIAL. I don't think I would have wanted to talk to him if I was in Madelyne's place either. What did she do to deserve the pain he put her through?

Originally posted by Drifter
Marrying Madeleine was clearly a mistake, but at the time Scott genuinely thought he loved her for who she was, not for who she looked like. Obviously that was stupid on his part. Clearly the marriage had an unhealthy premise. That is one of the reasons why it ended up making them miserable, and Scott eventually moved out of the house.

Still, although Cyke´s behavior was quite bad at the time. He did tell Madeleine he was going to see Warren and later he tried to reach Madeleine. If Madeleine and the child had not been abducted by Marauders, their marriage would have ended in just another divorce.

See, you guys admit Scott was a rat bastard in one sentence and in the next you try to justify the actions that made him a rat bastard in the first place. SCOTT SHOULD HAVE HAD MORE RESPECT FOR HIS WIFE AND SON THAN SNEAKING OFF WITHOUT NOTICE. MADELYNE AND NATHAN DESERVED BETTER THAN THAT. I will not accept that there are any circumstances in this world that justify leaving your family the way Scott did. A Man has a responsibility to his family, despite his mental state of being. This is the last time I will respond to this because I'm tired of repeating myself. If you justify putting your own feelings before the needs of your family, I both disagree and feel sorry for you. That is my final word on this matter.

Originally posted by Drifter
The point of that story was to show how messed up Cyclops was. Wolverine, rather obviously acting as Claremont´s mouthpiece, points out several times that Scott is not thinking clearly and has lost his edge. Kind of like the scene in "Daredevil:Born Again" where the Matt Murdock on the brink of insanity beats up a policeman. It wasn´t meant to show that Daredevil is a cop-beating thug. It was meant to show how badly he had gone off the deep end at that particular time.

Cyclops has on other occasions done well against both Storm and Wolverine. Logan himself has said that there´s no one he´d rather have in his corner than Scott.

Fine. I agree with your assessment on the fight between Storm and Cyclops. However, I don't think Scott's emotional condition would change to outcome of a fight with Wolverine. You probably disagree with me. Can we just agree it would be a good fight and they would just kill each other too?

Originally posted by Drifter
There have been times when Scott has buried himself to work to avoid dealing with his problems. However being the leader is one of the largest sources of grief in his life. The constant fear of making a mistake that will cost the life of one of his friends, is what makes him such a depressed high-strung person. Cyke´s guilt of living the quiet life while others were risking their life for the mutant-cause was as big of a factor in his break-up with Maddie as Jean´s return.

There are people all the time who lose themselves in their work to avoid problems in their personal life. Avoiding your responsibility to your loved ones is the same for everyone. It doesn't matter if you're saving innocents and trading stocks. The fact is you are still not there for the people who depend on you.

Originally posted by Sabretooth

Oh no. I'm going to let you put words in my mouth that easily. Two people not getting along even after trying to work out their problems is a whole lot different than leaving your wife and son without so much as a goodbye. Would you disagree?

. SCOTT SHOULD HAVE HAD MORE RESPECT FOR HIS WIFE AND SON THAN SNEAKING OFF WITHOUT NOTICE. MADELYNE AND NATHAN DESERVED BETTER THAN THAT.

There are people all the time who lose themselves in their work to avoid problems in their personal life. Avoiding your responsibility to your loved ones is the same for everyone. It doesn't matter if you're saving innocents and trading stocks. The fact is you are still not there for the people who depend on you.

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Finally you and I completely agree on something Cyke. I think Emma gets the most blame out of everybody. Damn hussy. She completely took advantage of Scott when he was at his most vulnerable. That's the biggest reason I'm cheesed off at Scott for defending her to Jean.

i have to admit, i have grown to like emma in astonishing, but i do agree that she did take advantage of scott at a very vulnerable time...

I have a question on a slightly different subject...

In the 'here comes tomorrow' storyline (new x-men issues 150-154), we find out that jean/phoenix manipulates scott to stay at the school and stay with emma, now my question is...

If he was willing to leave the x-men (and emma), then maybe this so called love for her is influenced by the phoenix itself? When in phoenix endsong he says he loves emma, couldnt that be the phoenix in his head again?

Because honestly, if the phoenix knew he was willing to walk away after losing jean, how does it know it can safely disengage said influence? What if it stopped manipulating him and he just upped an left?

So is it possible that at this very moment (in astonishing and civil war), he is still under the influence of the phoenix?

Just a thought...

Originally posted by pr1983
i have to admit, i have grown to like emma in astonishing, but i do agree that she did take advantage of scott at a very vulnerable time...

"...I know he lies beside her at night without touching her... I know she sees what he's thinking and despises him for his weakness... I know she's so pure and their love is so special, Logan... and I know I'm so shallow... and spiteful... and manipulative... I know because she saw right through me. She saw the truth and I had no defense... and she knows too. Why did I have to allow myself to become so stupid and vulnerable, Logan? Why did I have to fall in love with Scott bloody Summers?"

Some things are beyond people's control.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Oy. 😒

"...I know he lies beside her at night without touching her... I know she sees what he's thinking and despises him for his weakness... I know she's so pure and their love is so special, Logan... and I know I'm so shallow... and spiteful... and manipulative... I know because she saw right through me. She saw the truth and I had no defense... and she knows too. Why did I have to allow myself to become so stupid and vulnerable, Logan? Why did I have to fall in love with Scott bloody Summers?"

Some things are beyond people's control.

I'm not saying she didn't/doesn't truly love him, you'd be surprised what a person is capable of when their heart wants something that much... 😬

he did the same with maddie... he left her for jean, because jean was truly the one he loved... he left his wife and son because he was in love... 😬

Originally posted by Drifter
The reason Maddie and Cyke couldn't try and work out their problems was that Maddie ended up being abducted and was thought dead.

Man. I'd REALLY like to respond to this, but I'm not going to. I said I wouldn't respond to the Scott/Madelyne situation any more and I won't. Unlike Cyclops, I keep my word when I give it...

Originally posted by Drifter
Maddie knew Scott was going to see Warren in New York. What she didn't know was that Scott wouldn't be coming back until her abduction. But then again, Scott didn't know that when he left either. And when he tried to contact her and talk to her about it, he was unable to reach her.

...Can't respond to this one either...

Originally posted by Drifter
Yes, Cyclops' sometimes uses work as an emotional escape route. My point wasn't whether or not it's an appealing character trait. My point was that it is not a constant behavioral pattern and, more importantly, it is not the reason why he acts as the leader. Cyclops' work for the X-Men is based on his selfless desire to help others. If Cyclops simply wanted to be a workaholic he could be doing something, that doesn't involve him being beaten, shot at, tortured etc. on a regular basis.

I have never questioned Scott's bravery nor his ability to lead while on the battlefield. I question his bravery when it comes to his responsibility to his friends and family. Using his job to escape facing his personal problems is something he does on a regular basis, making it a constant behavioral pattern. In Scott's mind, getting shot at and having people's lives depend on his decisions is much more desirable than having to deal with people he cares about when there are problems involved.

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Using his job to escape facing his personal problems is something he does on a regular basis, making it a constant behavioral pattern. In Scott's mind, getting shot at and having people's lives depend on his decisions is much more desirable than having to deal with people he cares about when there are problems involved.

What has Scott ever done that wasn't centered on his own feelings? Lead the team? He was focusing on the team so he didn't have to face his own problems. Selfish and a coward.

Originally posted by Sabretooth
That's funny, because when I see you say things like:

[B]"and, a phychic affair is more tolerable, more reasonable than a physical one..."

and:

"Cykes offense is more in-depth of a person, it tends more to the ordinary promptings of a person..."

It sure looks like justification to me. [/B]

* like what you're doing with Jean... it's really funny...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
No, the topic is the relationship between Scott and Jean, Scott and Emma, Scott and Maddie, Scott and Baby Nathan, Scott and Logan, Scott and his team, Scott and his daughter Rachael, Jean and Logan, Jean and Emma and Jean and Maddie. Scott has a loooong history of selfish behavior. The emotional pain he has inflicted on others and continues to inflict cannot be ignored, ever if it is being ignored by Scott.

* no... we should tackle the situations categorically... not generally and ultimately blamed it on someone you think is wrong...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
50/50 like I said. Both partners have a role. Both have responsibility to the other. One should not be putting their feelings before those of their spouse. Both Jean and Scott are guilty of this. Scott is just more guilty.

* ditto... however, IMO Jean is more guilty...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
A sig can say so much about a person. Mine suggests I'm am a Sabretooth fan. I am. Yours suggests you enjoy watching professional wrestling. Would you argue that professional wrestling does not objectify women? Or that there is a much greater number of male wrestling fans than female? I simply made an observation.

* out of respect, i don't talk about your sig, whether you're a Sabretooth fan and an anti-Gambit... the sig has nothing to do with what we're talking about... i hope you got that...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
If you take being associated with professional wrestling as an insult,

* no, i don't... the point is, it's irrelevent to talk about something blatantly outside the topic...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
I would seriously change your sig.

* no, thanks...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
When is Cyclops NOT emotionally troubled? When is Wolverine not emotionally troubled? We can go on and on about this and never put a dent in the other's resolve. How about if we agree they will kill each other and call it a draw?

* ... sigh...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Logan wasn't the one Scott needed to talk to about Jean/Logan thing. Well, yeah he was, but he needed to talk to Jean as well. Besides they also fought a lot just because they didn't like one another, not only about Jean (but it was always in the back of both their minds).

* they (Cyke & Jean) should've talked... but is Jean that insensitive?

Originally posted by Sabretooth
And Scott Had 'em for Maddie, Psylocke and Emma. What's your point? There is a difference between physical attraction and love.

* Cyke has Jean in his heart, he has no reservations for Madelyne, Psylocke or Emma...

* Madelyne - no reservations: Jean was dead in her time...

* Psylocke - no reservations: it involved psychic manipulations from the then- flirty Betsy and as far as i remember, Cyke & Jean was not yet married...

* Emma - no reservations: Cyke got distorted mind from merging with Apocalypse and Jean refused to interact with him telepathically despite his repeated requests that she do so...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
" 'Til death do us part" usually suggests the marriage is over when one of the participants is dead. Hence, no "affair". It's not like Jean would be replacing Scott with a Scott look-alike or anything. She would just have a lot more exiting private life.

* then, consider the "no affair" on Cyke and Emma too... Cyke did not replaced Jean with a Jean look-a-like either... he would also have a lot more exciting private life, considering a woman who accepts him more than his own wife...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
I man who can fight in battle day after day yet not face responsibility to his "loved ones"? Yes, that man is a COWARD.

* so untrue as i've pointed out...

* even in the heat of a battle, Cyke even goes to Jean to tend her welfare, is that selfish? Cyke had held his own against a mutant with healing powers and deadly instincts and rages, is that coward?

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Yes, I do. You debate intelligently and bring up many good points.

* fair enough, thanks...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
I just think you are too emotionally biased when debating about anything concerning Logan. And YES, this also concerns Logan.

* and you are too, when it concerns Scott Summers...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
I have answered this already. If telepathy were in the real world, there would be only one person in my thoughts. That to me is the ultimate trust. Any person can have a physical relationship with someone else. It happens every day. How many people do you think would let someone else see their most private thoughts, fears and dreams? Probably not very damn many.

* there was only one person in Cyke's mind and that is Jean... but it was Jena who pushes him away by refusing to talk to him even telepathically...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Fine. I agree with your assessment on the fight between Storm and Cyclops. However, I don't think Scott's emotional condition would change to outcome of a fight with Wolverine. You probably disagree with me. Can we just agree it would be a good fight and they would just kill each other too?

* just think of how fast Wolverine can rush close to Cyke before the optic blast come out of the visor... Wolverine would be blown away in seconds...

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Finally you and I completely agree on something Cyke. I think Emma gets the most blame out of everybody. Damn hussy. She completely took advantage of Scott when he was at his most vulnerable. That's the biggest reason I'm cheesed off at Scott for defending her to Jean.

* what about the "other" third party? Emma gets the blame and Logan escapes easily way out? Emma and Logan should be blamed for sticking their noses where it don't belong...

To be honest I don't see the point in debating who is too blame as all of them share some part in Scott/Jeans marriage falling apart.

Emma: For tempting Scott but it's not as if she's sorry and she couldn't care what anybody else thinks.
Logan: The same as above. Except with Jean.
Jean: For not dealing with their problems earlier...she was too caught up with manifesting the Phoenix.
Scott: For the obvious reasons

Everyones actions are also justifiable because they're human, two of these people have a unique code of ethics(Emma and Logan) and both of them fell in love with a person who was already married, Scott showed his humanity he wanted companionship while Jean a human was too engrossed in her newly acquired cosmicness.

BTW Excluding PIS and CIS, Scott murders Wolverine.