The Beatles

Originally posted by BobbyD
I have critcized BB on several occasions for getting carried away. I have said on many occasions AC, that I understand where you come from, I understand your angle, why you disagree, etc. I have tried that nicely, and you rebut with something stupid like you cured me of Beatlemania.

So the fact of the matter is, you realise that I'm just disagreeing, you realise why, you realise that I accept my beliefs are opinion regarding taste, but you just don't like the way I express those things or the wording I use?

Well not that I'm going to change, but why don't you just say that? Why spend ages posting a long reply, accusing me of believing things I do not, and in that same post, doing that which you accused me of?

Originally posted by BobbyD
Dude, just get real and accept that you and I disagree. There's nothing more that needs to be said about this.

I am aware we disagree, but are you aware that "greatest" is opinion? Are you aware they are not factually the best band ever? It's your opinion they are, it's my opinion they are not.

You do not like the "greatest" things by fact. That is YOU doing what you accused me of. Accept THAT as opinion and then you will be somewhat free of hypocricy.

Originally posted by BobbyD
And you will reply.....

Yes, and? I reply to most people saying things that I have an opinion on. What's your point?

Originally posted by BobbyD
I'm think I'm showing this quite evidently, and beating you at your own game......

So now it's about some kind of inner will to "beat" me? What happened to not caring? Hypocricy everywhere.

Originally posted by BobbyD
Yes, I can be hypocritical. However, at least one of us recognizes our deficiencies.

The difference is, I've explained to you how and why you were wrong to suggest the things you did about my person, because I entirely respect your RIGHT to an opinion and that my taste and opinions are also opinion.

You chose to force the idea that I do not, you were wrong.

Furthermore, those "deficiencies" (Had I even possessed them) are proven to be apparant in you and Bakerboy. You two are doing what you dislike me "doing", and I'm not even doing it. That's the comedy of the situation. The fact that you just said I do things that I do not, when the reality is, you just dislike the way I put out my opinion.

My point is, if you know you're a hypocrite, don't make a long post to me when you know you won't stand by it and won't hold your criticisms up to others who do what you claim to dislike, including yourself. By being a hypocrite your claims against me are invalid, if they even held truth in the first place. I don't know when to stop? You don't know when not to start.

Hopefully now we can avoid future entanglements.

-AC

AC, I don't really dislike you, but I think your logic is a touch warped.

It's illustrated vividly by this example of you and I having a conversation about mathematics.....

Me: AC, 2 + 2 = 4.
You: No Bob, 1 + 3 = 4.

Me: Yes, AC I know. You are right. But, 2 + 2 also = 4.
You: No Bob, 4 + 0 = 4.

Me: Yes AC, this is true. But 2 + 2 = 4 too!
You: No Bob!! 7 - 3 = 4!!

You get the idea...... You talk the same bullsh*t over n' over again. It's difficult to have a debate with you, let alone a conversation. ..has nothing to do with me not wanting to stand in and fight. I've clearly shown this by throwing childish jabs at you to illustrate what you do. One of your famous calling cards is getting the last word in. Well, the best way to get someone to see themselves is to mimic them. That's what psychology says. Maybe you need a little.

Originally posted by BobbyD
AC, I don't really dislike you, but I think your logic is a touch warped.

It's illustrated vividly by this example of you and I having a conversation about mathematics.....

Me: AC, 2 + 2 = 4.
You: No Bob, 1 + 3 = 4.

Me: Yes, AC I know. You are right. But, 2 + 2 also = 4.
You: No Bob, 4 + 0 = 4.

Me: Yes AC, this is true. But 2 + 2 = 4 too!
You: No Bob!! 7 - 3 = 4!!

Where did we have that conversation? Oh, we didn't. It's you portraying me in a manner you feel is accurate, not one that actually is.

I wouldn't actually tell you "No, Bob, 1 + 3 = 4.", in spite of you saying 2 + 2 does. You're being stupid, quite honestly. You are attempting to factualise your perception of me, when that really is all it is, your perception of me. Gathered, in part, by the fact that you dislike HOW I say things.

You can't just make up a scenario, act as me in a way you desire, and then act like it's accurate. That's utterly idiotic. However, I'll make up my own as you did:

Me: The Beatles aren't that great.
You: You need to accept that they're the greatest band ever, and will be until society says otherwise.
Me: That's not fact.
Bob: YOU NEED TO STOP PUTTING YOUR OPINIONS OUT AS FACT.

Oh wait, you have actually said that.

Originally posted by BobbyD
The Beatles hold the crown as the greatest band ever- deserved, not deserving, partially deserved-doesn't matter. They are regarded as such, and you need to accept it until society says otherwise. 😉

Oh...well then.

Originally posted by chithappens
You get the idea...... You talk the same bullsh*t over n' over again. It's difficult to have a debate with you, let alone a conversation. ..has nothing to do with me not wanting to stand in and fight. I've clearly shown this by throwing childish jabs at you to illustrate what you do.

No, you've thrown childish jabs to illustrate what you believe I do, what you want OTHERS to agree and believe I do. What you fail to realise is that by doing this, you are proving me right. I don't have to do any work.

You are pushing your wrong perception of me (And I can say it's wrong, by fact, as it's me we're discussing here) as fact.

Originally posted by chithappens
One of your famous calling cards is getting the last word in.

And yours, as evident here, is to get the first word, run away and then in a moment of faux-telepathy, "predict" that someone will reply, shockingly, to a post in which you provoke them.

Originally posted by chithappens
Well, the best way to get someone to see themselves is to mimic them. That's what psychology says. Maybe you need a little.

Maybe you need to stop dodging the fact that you've been exposed as a hypocrite, rendering your entire argument null and void.

Your whole basis is; "THIS IS HOW YOU ACT, AC! NO! IT IS!". And you call ME childish? You sit there making up scenarios, typing as me speaking in a way that YOU conjured up in your mind, and I'm childish? Funny.

All stemming from the fact that you cannot live, sleep, or respect the fact that The Beatles are not factually great. Their music is not factually anything, it's opinion. You do not accept that, that is where you fail.

"You will reply...!".

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Where did we have that conversation? Oh, we didn't. It's you portraying me in a manner you feel is accurate, not one that actually is.

I wouldn't actually tell you "No, Bob, 1 + 3 = 4.", in spite of you saying 2 + 2 does. You're being stupid, quite honestly. You are attempting to factualise your perception of me, when that really is all it is, your perception of me. Gathered, in part, by the fact that you dislike HOW I say things.

You can't just make up a scenario, act as me in a way you desire, and then act like it's accurate. That's utterly idiotic. However, I'll make up my own as you did:

[b]Me: The Beatles aren't that great.
You: You need to accept that they're the greatest band ever, and will be until society says otherwise.
Me: That's not fact.
Bob: YOU NEED TO STOP PUTTING YOUR OPINIONS OUT AS FACT.

Oh wait, you have actually said that.

Oh...well then.

No, you've thrown childish jabs to illustrate what you believe I do, what you want OTHERS to agree and believe I do. What you fail to realise is that by doing this, you are proving me right. I don't have to do any work.

You are pushing your wrong perception of me (And I can say it's wrong, by fact, as it's me we're discussing here) as fact.

And yours, as evident here, is to get the first word, run away and then in a moment of faux-telepathy, "predict" that someone will reply, shockingly, to a post in which you provoke them.

Maybe you need to stop dodging the fact that you've been exposed as a hypocrite, rendering your entire argument null and void.

Your whole basis is; "THIS IS HOW YOU ACT, AC! NO! IT IS!". And you call ME childish? You sit there making up scenarios, typing as me speaking in a way that YOU conjured up in your mind, and I'm childish? Funny.

All stemming from the fact that you cannot live, sleep, or respect the fact that The Beatles are not factually great. Their music is not factually anything, it's opinion. You do not accept that, that is where you fail.

"You will reply...!".

-AC [/B]

Hahaha. And this guy still is acussing the other people on posting insults. Dude, ask yourself why almost all the people here hates you, it will be a good , fast and easy exercise for you.

In all honesty, I'm flattered but at least do this in PM.

Stop bumping the ONE thread just to reply to me irrelevantly. It's sad, and you're just making yourself look silly. Reported.

-AC

EVERYONE in this post is now going off on a tangent. I think this boils down to a case of no one letting this 'debate' lie, and everyone basically trying to get the last word.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I still think The Beatles inspire artists.

Indeed.

No other band better...

Except every band ever to exist.

-AC

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I still think The Beatles inspire artists.

They probably do, but I don't think they inspire influential or particularyl great artists nowadays anymore. They did of course have quite an impact in their time and following that.

I mean, they partly inspired Pet Sounds. In a way, one might say, Pet Sounds is the best album the Beatles ever made (possible)

Frank Zappa massively inspired Sgt. Pepper's, so let's credit that album to him.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Frank Zappa massively inspired Sgt. Pepper's, so let's credit that album to him.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Except every band ever to exist.

-AC

Originally posted by Capt Spaulding
The Beatles are the single most innovative group in history. Perfecting Folk Music, heralding the psychadelia age, popped out puppy dog love songs within a half an hour, and unmatched in the studio. John Lennon, one of the greatest lyricists in the century, Paul McCartney, dreamed music, George Harrison, one of the greatest guitarists ever, and Ringo Starr's left handed drumming made him the most unique drummer of the day. In My Life, Girl, Nowhere man, The entire Sgt. Pepper's album, and Tomorrow Never Knows is nothing short of sheer genius.

Zappa hated the album, and he himself said he inspired it, when mcCartney on the other hand said countless times then, and now, that it was a gettaway for the stressed out boys to pretend. The music scene was just naturally changing, he didn't do anything to the album, except propel the change in the music scene. o, and The beatles are not only superior to Zappa, but are definetly more influential

Originally posted by Bardock42
Now, I know AC might not agree with it, and he does get name dropped a lot, but I have to say Bob Dylan alone beats the Beatles sooo bad in innovation, influence, lyrical excellence...and I also feel musically. And he's not the only one.

The Beatles change from puppy music, to folk music is because of Dylan. Lennon was swept away by it. Lennon thought the only way to release music, was to put silly rhyming words, with I lvoe you in it. All his creative energy went into his books, until he met Dylan, where he learned his music could be innovative. So yes, he's an amazing lyricist, and the most influential man of the century IO, but his music, and his range falls short to the Beatles.

All you do, Capt, is say "Yeah, you're right, but The Beatles are better and did it better, cos they're The Beatles.". Ultimately, that's all you lot can ever do, and sadly, it's all you'll ever have to do, cos when it comes to The Beatles, everyone tends to be a stupid moron.

I like the band, a lot, but they were what they were. People get out of hand.

Zappa is factually more technically able than any of The Beatles. To suggest otherwise is dumb.

You can't sit there and say they wrote the best, simple, perfect songs whilst simultaneously propose they were somehow technical wizards. It doesn't work that way. They wrote great, simple music in my opinion, but that's because they made the best of their ability, and that's what they DID do great. They were not technical gods, and Zappa could outplay any of them. Ringo Starr was known as the best worst drummer in the world, he even admitted it himself.

They're more namedropped, they are not factually more influential than Frank Zappa.

Originally posted by Capt Spaulding
The Beatles are the single most innovative group in history. Perfecting Folk Music, heralding the psychadelia age, popped out puppy dog love songs within a half an hour, and unmatched in the studio. John Lennon, one of the greatest lyricists in the century, Paul McCartney, dreamed music, George Harrison, one of the greatest guitarists ever, and Ringo Starr's left handed drumming made him the most unique drummer of the day. In My Life, Girl, Nowhere man, The entire Sgt. Pepper's album, and Tomorrow Never Knows is nothing short of sheer genius.

All of that stems from you really, really liking The Beatles.

None of it is relevant and none of it makes them the most innovative anything. That said, I have honestly endured, engaged in and beaten your argument from every other hardcore fan of The Beatles. You all produce the same arguments.

Let's look at what you just said;

Most innovative group: opinion and one that's easily able to be countered. All they ever gave us was backmasking and a few studio techniques, which were mostly not even them, Martin did all those. Their music wasn't highly original, they didn't pioneer or invent any styles of playing. They didn't invent the concept album as they are often miscredit with, that was Zappa too.

Greatest lyricist/guitarist/unique drummer: those are either all opinion or they can be proven wrong. Greatest lyricist is your opinion, guitarist? Harrison was nowhere near. You may like his MUSIC the most, but there are many, many, many guitarists who are, were and WILL be better players, technically. The music he created on guitar is great in your opinion. Same with drummers.

Nothing you have said here is new. Bobby D, Electric Boogaloo, Kid Kurdy, Bakerboy, you. You all say the same, ultimately. I don't even think it'll be long before the penultimate name shows up here.

Look at the shit you come up with. Studio innovation, so what? Who gives a shit? Ultimately what it comes down to with Beatlemaniacs is the need to impose their subjective love onto objective criteria, and it doesn't work that way. They either are or they are not what people claim. Usually, they are not.

-AC

well way to beat back my arguement bub, because as far as I can see, you haven't, and thereofre it's just as opiniated as any Beatles fans in here, which by the way speaks for itself. Lenn's Legacy, is as a witty lyricist, legacies also speak for themselves. Eric Clapton, another one of the greatest guitarists ever, has also said that harrison is one of the greatest guitarists he's ever seen. Ringo's drumming can be argued, but listening to the drumming on In My Life, is so complex, it's very difficult for many superior drummers to do. The Beatles popularized the 12 string guitar, inspring the byrds, Dylan's music may have been poetry...if you can tolerate what reviewers have dubbed "the withery sound of death." The Beatles have inspired countless artists. To name one Oasis, and if you recall, Martin didn't even work on Let it Be, yet another one of the greatest albums.

On the song Tommorow never Knows, The studio work is so complex, it took work from all 4 bealtes, to get the exact sound they wanted, so yet again, your Martin arguement fails. O, and McCartney popularized the bass. No longer was the large plucking bass relevent. Furthermore, the beatles heralded the British Invasion, and gave the Rolling Stones their first number one hit, which they did better, with Ringo Singing lead! Ringo of all people. There's a reason why the Beatles music has stood the test of time, when i can tell you people who don't even know who Zappa is. In summary, your just as biased as I am, but a compliment in your way, You are well educated. So there's a bitter little cookie for you.

Originally posted by Capt Spaulding
Eric Clapton, another one of the greatest guitarists ever, has also said that harrison is one of the greatest guitarists he's ever seen.

But had to play the solo on "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" ... don't follow.

[QUOTE=9793142]Originally posted by Bardock42
But had to play the solo on "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" ... don't follow. [/QUOTEClaptton and Harrison were friends, he wanted him to play. When patti left George because of his spirtualism, he let her go, it's just how Harrison was.