The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Considering Naruto fights themselves do not entirely rely on ABC logic, yes ABC is out.
It was over. He went batshit crazy when he was struck by Chidori. He stopped his transformation, and then had to be carried by Kankuro once Baki told them to retreat. So no, the same thing would not have happened.

Because Sasuke was still superior to the Naruto that beat Neji? The mode Naruto used to overpower Sasuke at VotE was far more powerful than the one he used to beat Neji. He needs specific triggers to enter the former which won't be happening unless Sasuke tries to kill him in their fight and/or he is extremely bloodlusted.

Ok. Whether or not he would use them was not my original point. the point is, given the showings, during the invasion, Naruto was more powerful than Sasuke. The fact that his powered had to be triggered does not lessen the fact that he reached a level that at the point Sasuke could not reach. that's all I'm saying.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I cannot recall anything that makes Sakura faster than Temari.

Lawl, Kankuro beat a Sasori who had no puppets and with the help of Sai and Omoi. Chouji would beat Kankuro like Shikamaru beats himself off to Kankuro's sister every night. Also Temari >>>

Afraid not. Kankuro would one-shot Temari.

Originally posted by NemeBro
That's because you're a loser.

Afraid not. Kankuro would one-shot Temari.

Temari blocking even weighted Lee is still above anything I care to recall Sakura doing.

And Temari would one-shot Kankuro.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Si. If Gamabunta was summoned, Naruto could beat a lot of people. But this forgets the fact that 1) Naruto tends not to use summons unless it's for something big and 2) Gamabunta would not waste his time on anyone small. Which leaves Naruto with Kyuubi charaka up against the faster Sasuke. Who can move as fast as Rock Lee, the guy who did make Naruto look like a joke.

He also made Sasuke look like a joke at that time so....... 😕
Kyuubi mode also amps naruto's speed as well.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Temari blocking even weighted Lee is still above anything I care to recall Sakura doing.

And Temari would one-shot Kankuro.

Kankuro could do it from multiple angles and block her attacks with puppets my son.

Originally posted by socool8520
He also made Sasuke look like a joke at that time so....... 😕
Kyuubi mode also amps naruto's speed as well.

Sasuke got demonstrably better in the categories Lee stomped him in. Naruto did not.

Indeed. Kyuubi mode gives Naruto speed that might well be at Lee's level. But then, Sasuke has the Curse Seal. 2 amps>one.

Time for an update!

Stats:

SS
Madara Uchiha (Rinnegan + Wood)^
Naruto Uzumaki (Full Partnership)
Tobi (Jinchuuriki Paths)^

SS-
Hashirama^
Kurama (Full power)
Madara Uchiha (EMS only)^
Nagato (Pain or Solo)

S+
Itachi Uchiha
Izuna Uchiha
Gyūki
Killerbee
Minato Namikaze
Mito Uzumaki
Muu
Naruto Uzumaki (Kyuubi chakra mode)
Onoki
Sasuke Uchiha (Complete Susano'o)
Second Mizukage
Third Raikage
Tobi (Sharingan only)^
Yagura

S
A (Raikage)
Danzo (with implant jutsu)
Deidara
Deva Path (Yahiko/Pain)
Fū (Jinchuuriki)
Gaara (Kage)
Jiraiya
Han
Kakashi Hatake (Mastered Kamui)
Kakuzu
Kisame Hoshigaki (with Samehada)
Konan*
Kushina Uzumaki
Mei Terumi
Naruto Uzumaki (Sage Mode)*
Orochimaru*
Roshi
Sandaime Kazekage (3rd)
Sasori
Sasuke Uchiha (Orochimaru merge/mangekyo w/incomplete susano'o)
Shukaku
Tsunade
Utakata
Yondaime Kazekage (4th)
Yugito Nii

S-
Chiyo
Danzo (without implant jutsu)
Darui
Ginkaku
Hidan
Hiruzen Sarutobi (Old)
Kabuto* (Orochimaru merge)
Kakashi Hatake (start of part 2)
Kimimaro Kaguya (healthy)
Kinkaku
Kisame Hoshigaki (without Samehada)
Kitsuchi
Mangetsu Hōzuki (Swords)
Mifune
Might Gai (part 2)
Sasuke Uchiha (start of part 2)
Shisui Uchiha
Zetsu (Black half or Complete)

*These characters have jutsu that require specific preparation that can't be done mid combat but increase their ability significantly, such as Edo Tensei, preparing multiple sage-mode charges, or readying unusual amounts of explosive tags.

^These characters have high-level Biju control of tailed beasts outside of their bodies.

A+
Animal Path (Pain)
Asuma Sarutobi
Asura Path (Pain)
Hiashi Hyuuga
Jūgo
Kabuto Yakushi
Kakashi Hatake (part 1)
Kimimaro Kaguya (sick)
Mangetsu Hōzuki (No swords)
Might Gai (part 1)
Suigetsu Hōzuki
Suikazan Fuguki (Samehada)
Yamato
Zabuza Momochi

A
Ao
Baki
Dodai
Fū (ANBU)
Gaara (Sasuke Retrieval)
Gari
Hizashi Hyuuga
Human Path (Pain)
Kankurō (with Sasori puppet)
Killer Bee (Young, Minato fight)
Kurenai Yuhi
Kurotsuchi
Munashi Jinpachi
Naruto Uzumaki (post elemental training)
Neji Hyuuga (part 2)
Pakura
Ringo Ameyuri
Sasori (Sans puppet arsenal)
Torune

A-
C
Chōjūrō
Chōji Akimichi (Asuma Fight)
Chōza Akimichi
Inoichi Yamanaka
Jinin Akebino
Kushimaru Kuriarare
Kakko (Kakashi Gaiden)
Naruto Uzumaki (start of part 2)
Preta Path (Pain)
Sai (post-emotions)
Shibi Aburame
Shikaku Nara
Shizune
Suikazan Fuguki (No sword)
Temari (start of part 2)

B+
Genma Shiranui
Haku
Ibiki Morino
Ittan
Kakashi Hatake (Kakashi Gaiden)
Kankurō (as of Sasori fight)
Mahiru
Naraka Path (Pain)
Naruto Uzumaki (One Tail)
Rock Lee (part 2)
Sai (start)
Sakura Haruno (part 2)
Sasuke Uchiha (VotE)

B
Anko Mitarashi
Gaara (Chuunin Exam)
Ino Yamanaka (4th Shinobi War)
Kankurō (Sasuke Retrieval)
Omoi
Sakon/Ukon
Shino Aburame (part 2)
Shikamaru Nara (part 2)
Taiseki (Kakashi Gaiden)
Temari (Sasuke Retrieval)
Toroi
Tsume Inuzuka

B-
Aoba Yamashiro
Chōji Akimichi (start of part 2)
Hayate Gekkō
Hinata Hyuuga (part 2)
Jirōbō
Kiba Inazuka (part 2)
Kidōmaru
Neji Hyuuga (Sasuke Retrieval)
Shin
Tayuya
Tenten (Part 2)

C+
Ebisu
Ino Yamanaka (start of part 2)
Karin
Naruto Uzumaki (Post Rasengan Training)
Neji Hyuga (Chunin exam)
Rock Lee (Chunin exam)
Sasuke Uchiha (Chunin exam finals)
Shikamaru Nara (Sasuke Retrieval)
Temari (Chunin exam)
White Zetsu Clone

C
Dosu
Iruka
Izumo Kamizuki
Kankuro (Chunin exam)
Konohamaru Sarutobi (part 2)
Kotetsu Hagane
Obito Uchiha (Sharingan)
Rin
Sasuke Uchiha (Sharingan)
Shikamaru Nara (Chunin exam)
Shino Aburame (Chunin exam)
Yashamaru

C-
Gōzu (Demon Brother)
Kiba Inazuka (Chunin exam)
Meizu (Demon Brother)
Mizuki
Naruto Uzumaki (Post clone jutsu)
Obito Uchiha (pre-Sharingan)
Sasuke Uchiha (pre-Sharingan)
Shigure

D+
Chōji Akimichi (Chunin exam)
Hinata Hyuga (part 1)
Ino Yamanaka (Chunin exam)
Kin
Oboro
Tenten (Chunin exam)
Zaku

D
Misumi Tsurugi
Sakura Haruno (Chunin exam)
Yoroi Akadō

D-
Rock Lee (Just graduated Genin)
Sakura Haruno (Start)

E+
Naruto Uzumaki (pre-clone jutsu)

E-
Konohamaru Sarutobi (start)
Rock Lee (Academy flashback)

---
Changes since last time:
Mahiru (Iwa clone-using Jonin from Kakashi Gaiden)- B
Full-Partnership Naruto- SS
Hashirama- from S+ to SS-
Madara- likewise
Kyuubi and Hachibi- Replaced with Kurama and Gyūki

Originally posted by NemeBro
Temari blocking a non-serious weighted Lee is not the equivelant to her showing against Sasori.

Kankuro could do it from multiple angles and block her attacks with puppets my son.

I pretty much agree with this. Although, I still say the more impressive feat from that battle was her dodging the thousands of poisoned needles, but that was with the old lady's help.

Where is Random Love Letter Guy? 🙁

Originally posted by NemeBro
Where is Random Love Letter Guy? 🙁

The ranking only goes up to SS.

Originally posted by Q99
The ranking only goes up to SS.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Temari blocking a non-serious weighted Lee is not the equivelant to her showing against Sasori.

Kankuro could do it from multiple angles and block her attacks with puppets my son.

He looked pretty serious. Is Lee ever not serious? When he's not drunk at least. Anyway, he was mad pissed at her. And I can't recall Sasori's puppets being that fast either.

Kankuro's puppets havn't shown durability enough to block her Quick Beheading Dance. Nottomention that she can apparantly do it multiple times.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Sasuke got demonstrably better in the categories Lee stomped him in. Naruto did not.

Indeed. Kyuubi mode gives Naruto speed that might well be at Lee's level. But then, Sasuke has the Curse Seal. 2 amps>one.

Actually, I remember Akiba say his fang over fang was an extremely fast attack, and yet Naruto was able to dodge it. Even when they took pills to increase their skills. Not everytime, but he dodged it.

Originally posted by socool8520
Ok. Whether or not he would use them was not my original point. the point is, given the showings, during the invasion, Naruto was more powerful than Sasuke. The fact that his powered had to be triggered does not lessen the fact that he reached a level that at the point Sasuke could not reach. that's all I'm saying.

Not during the invasion, but during the fight against Gaara/Shukaku, a very specific moment, yes, he was more powerful than Sasuke. Though this was entirely due to Gamabunta. While we include summons when it comes to power, Naruto never really uses Summons unless the plot calls for it.

Again, context matters. That level isn't something he can trigger at will. He only reached that level at VotE, which was long after the Chuunin exam arc, and Sasuke surpassed him in moments when his Sharingan advanced, which Naruto then surpassed when he got a new power-up, until Sasuke barely edged him out thanks to CS2.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Not during the invasion, but during the fight against Gaara/Shukaku, a very specific moment, yes, he was more powerful than Sasuke. Though this was entirely due to Gamabunta. While we include summons when it comes to power, Naruto never really uses Summons unless the plot calls for it.

Again, context matters. That level isn't something he can trigger at will. He only reached that level at VotE, which was long after the Chuunin exam arc, and Sasuke surpassed him in moments when his Sharingan advanced, which Naruto then surpassed when he got a new power-up, until Sasuke barely edged him out thanks to CS2.

The only point I was trying to make is that Sasuke has not always been more powerful than Naruto. That's it. I have no problem at all accepting that it's back and forth issue with those two, and for the most part, they are fairly even up to now, in which point i think Naruto has the advantage. i will also accept that before the Invasion arc, sasuke would have curb stomped naruto

Originally posted by socool8520
Actually, I remember Akiba say his fang over fang was an extremely fast attack, and yet Naruto was able to dodge it. Even when they took pills to increase their skills. Not everytime, but he dodged it.

It wasn't stated to be fast. And his method of dodging was actually using chakra control. And both his teammates are better than him at that.

Kiba does have one of the highest speed rankings of the Konoha 12-

3.5 during the Naruto fight. 4 during the retrieval arc. 4.5 post-timeskip.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
It wasn't stated to be fast. And his method of dodging was actually using chakra control. And both his teammates are better than him at that.

Maybe it was the Anime where it was stated to be fast. Regardless the pills increased his speed.

Originally posted by Q99
Kiba does have one of the highest speed rankings of the Konoha 12-

3.5 during the Naruto fight. 4 during the retrieval arc. 4.5 post-timeskip.

Thanks man. Is the Naruto Wiki considered a valid source?

Originally posted by Nephthys
He looked pretty serious. Is Lee ever not serious? When he's not drunk at least. Anyway, he was mad pissed at her. And I can't recall Sasori's puppets being that fast either.

Kankuro's puppets havn't shown durability enough to block her Quick Beheading Dance. Nottomention that she can apparantly do it multiple times.

Notice how beat up Lee is when he attacks Temari, probably due to losing to the Sound nin. 🙂

Compare this to Temari, who is effectively fresh, due to having an instant win button as a little brother.

She also only dodged one, relatively straightforward attack.

The Third Kazekage's Iron Sand was very fast, making sonic booms my son.

Can't they? Sasori's should be able to. Beyond that, Kankuro due to puppet substitution and the ability to repair puppets is actually pretty mobile.

Also, why do you ignore the context of Temari's thoughts? She said it was her only hope, and the context paints it as a desperate solution.

My son.