The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/562/14

Madara gets kicked. Look at him when he lands. He shows no sign of the ET Regen. So we can only conclude that he blocked the attack and would survive normally.

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/562/14

Madara gets kicked like a mofo by Tsunade and he does not block it.

We can safely assume that any meatbag would have massive internal bleeding, broken ribs, and probably a broken spine being in that position.

Conclusion: death count 1 for Madara if he were a meatbag.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/563/3

Madara gets punched and again blocks the attack. And once again no signs of ET Regen.

This time, he blocks the attack. However, a normal meatbag would have gotten both arms broken. Remember that Suigetsu's arms were torn off from a strike like that from Raikage. Madara magically remains intact. The ET bodies are more durable than human bodies because they are made of clay: they will automatically have a much higher tolerance for blunt for trauma.

Conclusion: if that were a meatbag Madara, he would have died from that single strike. I am now upping the count to 5 deaths were Madara a meatbag.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/558

Him. If Onoki really had blasted through Madara's chest and armor, Madara would have been downed for a lot longer than he was. Instead we see him walking and moving just fine.

No, Madara was cleanly blasted through. His chest bear chest clearly shows a gaping hole used to be where his body was and the last little bit of him is regening.

So you have two choices:

1. Madara's Clay body tanked that blast. Conclusion: ET bodies are absurdly durable and Madara would have died had he been a meatbag.

2. Madara was cleanly blasted through and we saw the regen moments later being almost done. Conclusion: ET Bodies are not very durable but meatbag Madara would have died any way.

Overall conclusion: Madara would have died if he were a meatbag. If the plate armor would have been vaporized so easily down through his clothes, Madara's meatbag body would have been vaped as well. The simple fact that his plate armor was vaped cleanly past his body (his shoulder plates extend all the way from the front (anterior) to the back (posterior) of his body. Therefore, all of this clay body would have been vaped as well.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
The Onoki incident is the only one where Madara was legitimately injured to the point where he needed Regen. The meteor would obviously not count because Madara would not use it the way he did without Regen.

That's not true. Anyone would be dead, except the Sandaime Raikage, had they taken that kick from Tsunade right to the body like Madara did. A single finger strike from Tsunade is enough to create small canyon. Why would a kick with-ill will be many times lighter than when Tsunade was just trying to teach a young genin a lesson?

But take another look, here:

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/575/12

You can see that Madara's arm was almost completely vaped. Look at teh "wrinkles" on his chest. Look how far back the armor on his left shoulder is disintegrated: that's nough to pretty much have vaped his chest cleanly off.

And after a long ass talk with Sasuke, it has taken this long to get his armor back together thus proving that his was shot clean through.

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/576/13

And look here: some of "flesh" is returning, still, even after all that time, on his upper chest. Indicating quite clearly that he was fairly destroyed:

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/576/14

Look how fast he regened after getting struck by Tsunade:

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/577/9

Then here is the next panel

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/577/10

Look at how much of his chest has already regened and Tsunade is still in the air because she finally touches the big ol' tree right behind Madara after it shows him getting trapped.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
So yeah, keep in mind Madara doesn't really give a crap about this fight.

That's not true: he cares about it. He was even getting irritated. He is also trying to test out all of his powers.

Originally posted by Bentley
But what about the SECOND meteorite!?

That second asteroid shows that Madara was clearly getting irritated that someone resisted his power.

Wow, Dadudemon's mad.

Is this argument on how tough Madara is / how he compares to the Kage's?

Yep. DDM says that he's really not any more powerful than any of the other Kages and that he would have died at least 3 times by now if he wasn't a zombie. Theres also an argument on durability, as DDM argues that no-one should be able to shrug off one of Tsunades kicks the way Madara did without crippling injury.

Nemebro disagrees. >:C

I'll point out even if one can argue that he may have been dead were he not immortal, it did take multiple Kages to do it.

---
I think he blocked the first kick (his arms are crossed), and hey, maybe that's part of why he's so badass? Maybe he's another super-tough type like the Raikages are. In addition to his huge firepower.

If he blocked it with his arms and they didn't snap or tear, then the guy must be pretty tough.

If Madara is more durable than Orochimaru and Jiraiya then he can survive the hit.

Hmm, I'd forgotten that Orochi took a full-on smack right to the chin. He's hardly normal physically but that would inducate that its not impossible to survive a hit from Tsunade.

UxB3ndnZkmw&feature=related

Originally posted by dadudemon
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/562/14

Madara gets kicked like a mofo by Tsunade and he does not block it.

We can safely assume that any meatbag would have massive internal bleeding, broken ribs, and probably a broken spine being in that position.

Conclusion: death count 1 for Madara if he were a meatbag.

Madara's arms are like this and unlike Mu he lands deftly. He clearly blocked it. This is what happened lol.

If the attack had done so much damage, Regen would have been shown immediately, like when Asuma was hit. It wasn't, so Madara clearly wasn't hurt by the attack. Having, you know, blocked it. If perhaps he was showing signs of Regen then I'd agree with you. He wasn't.

Originally posted by dadudemon
This time, he blocks the attack. However, a normal meatbag would have gotten both arms broken. Remember that Suigetsu's arms were torn off from a strike like that from Raikage. Madara magically remains intact. The ET bodies are more durable than human bodies because they are made of clay: they will automatically have a much higher tolerance for blunt for trauma.

Naruto and Bee have both survived being hit by A relatively uninjured. But the funny thing is you using Suigetsu. The guy made of, you know, water. He's been injured by far less and turned to water. So no, I don't take stalk in his fallible statements that have been proven wrong by other characters. If I did, I'd have to acknowledge that Karin's kick is as strong as an attack from the Raikage. 🙂

Originally posted by dadudemon
Conclusion: if that were a meatbag Madara, he would have died from that single strike. I am now upping the count to 5 deaths were Madara a meatbag.

Kay, if you want to stick with that theory. I'll go with the actual canon, which is a tad better option. You understand right?

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, Madara was cleanly blasted through. His chest bear chest clearly shows a gaping hole used to be where his body was and the last little bit of him is regening.

If he was completely blasted through the battle would have been over and he would not have been able to move. Remember, both the Third Raikage and Muu have been blasted through and they were effectively put dowwn.

Originally posted by dadudemon
So you have two choices:

1. Madara's Clay body tanked that blast. Conclusion: ET bodies are absurdly durable and Madara would have died had he been a meatbag.

2. Madara was cleanly blasted through and we saw the regen moments later being almost done. Conclusion: ET Bodies are not very durable but meatbag Madara would have died any way.

Or option 3. Onoki nicked him. Which is the most probable based on ET bodies not showing super duper durability and Madara's wounds not looking bad at all.

And if you want to know why I say ET bodies do not show super duper durability compared to normal bodies: Ninjutsu hurts normal bodies in the same way it hurts Edo Tensei bodies. Taijutsu hurts normal bodies the way it hurts Edo Tensei bodies. And a sword hurts normal bodies just like Edo Tensei bodies. Hell, even poison affects normal bodies in the same way as Edo Tensei bodies.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Overall conclusion: Madara would have died if he were a meatbag. If the plate armor would have been vaporized so easily down through his clothes, Madara's meatbag body would have been vaped as well. The simple fact that his plate armor was vaped cleanly past his body (his shoulder plates extend all the way from the front (anterior) to the back (posterior) of his body. Therefore, all of this clay body would have been vaped as well.

Except not. Had Madara been that injured, he wouldn't have been moving. Remember Muu and Raikage, who were both similarly injured and downed for a while for the former and just down for the latter.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's not true. Anyone would be dead, except the Sandaime Raikage, had they taken that kick from Tsunade right to the body like Madara did. A single finger strike from Tsunade is enough to create small canyon. Why would a kick with-ill will be many times lighter than when Tsunade was just trying to teach a young genin a lesson?

Except he, you know, blocked it. Characters have taken far more damage than that without being out and out killed.

Originally posted by dadudemon
But take another look, here:

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/575/12

You can see that Madara's arm was almost completely vaped. Look at teh "wrinkles" on his chest. Look how far back the armor on his left shoulder is disintegrated: that's nough to pretty much have vaped his chest cleanly off.

And after a long ass talk with Sasuke, it has taken this long to get his armor back together thus proving that his was shot clean through.

If he'd been blasted all the way through, he could not move at all. Lather, rinse, repeat and we've gone into a endless back and forth parroting the same lines over and over. Since we really don't see Onoki's attack hit, we really can't say for sure how much damage he sustained. Lol oh wells.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Look how fast he regened after getting struck by Tsunade:

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/577/9

Then here is the next panel

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/577/10

Look at how much of his chest has already regened and Tsunade is still in the air because she finally touches the big ol' tree right behind Madara after it shows him getting trapped.

Now see, this is legitimately confusing. Not the panel but the argument. Why? Well the comment

Originally posted by dadudemon
And after a long ass talk with Sasuke, it has taken this long to get his armor back together thus proving that his was shot clean through.

Suggests that everything is happening in real time. Which hurts the argument that Madara was blasted through.

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/575/11

Onoki disperses the attack and Madara lands and the next page we see his chest, not his armor, perfectly in tact. If the regen was happening in real time, for him to have been shot all the way through, ET would have regenerated his chest in a second.

However the statement "after a long ass talk with Sasuke, it has taken this long to get his armor back together" suggests that no, never mind. The regen is slow with armor but fast with clothes. I don't *think* this is the argument that you're trying to make but it's how I'm reading it.

And then you compound the problem with posting an argument that the Regen is moving really fast after he'd been blown clean through by an actual attack. So at this point, I really am having a hard time discerning whether you think the regen is slow, which is supported by the manga in multiple places, or whether you think it's fast. This is not me busting your balls, this is me making a ?_? face.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's not true: he cares about it. He was even getting irritated. He is also trying to test out all of his powers.

He really doesn't. I see no reason to think Madara can't just summon another couple or meteors and be done with it. The fact that he is merely using the fight as a test shows that for him it's barely more than practice.

Which is how I see this argument. I've gotten what I wanted so if you feel the need to get the last word in by all means please do. NemeBro can continue in my place if he wants.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wow, Dadudemon's mad.

😆

Quantity does not mean "rage". I have raged a couple of times on KMC (yeah, just 2) and both times I got in trouble. When I rage, I just turn immature, don't address points, and call names. Like a child.

When I do that, that's because I'm mad, bro.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yep. DDM says that he's really not any more powerful than any of the other Kages and that he would have died at least 3 times by now if he wasn't a zombie. Theres also an argument on durability, as DDM argues that no-one should be able to shrug off one of Tsunades kicks the way Madara did without crippling injury.

Nemebro disagrees. >:C

That's....a very nice summary, man. 👆

However, I do think Madara is more powerful than the Kages. Absurdly so. But his powers are just "big" like the forest creation or the asteroids thing. Contrast that with how fast Naruto was able to create a bijuu ball (that's both big and strategic). Madara should be deadz...no doubt about it. His ET body is the only reason this fight continues.

Originally posted by Q99
I think he blocked the first kick (his arms are crossed), and hey, maybe that's part of why he's so badass? Maybe he's another super-tough type like the Raikages are. In addition to his huge firepower.

I'll concede everything if that turns out to be the case. But he's an Uchiha: he's soft and fleshy. 😄 Most likely...he's just taking advantage of his immortal body and doesn't give a ****.

Dadudemon please spare me on the word quilt. I do not want. 🙁

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Madara's arms are like this and unlike Mu he lands deftly. He clearly blocked it. This is what happened lol.

No, he did not block it. Look at where the impact "splosion" visual effect is and look at his arms: hint, they do not even come close to aligning up. He was kicked in the guts and that is him cringing.

Unlike the second time where he actually does block it.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
If the attack had done so much damage, Regen would have been shown immediately, like when Asuma was hit. It wasn't, so Madara clearly wasn't hurt by the attack. Having, you know, blocked it. If perhaps he was showing signs of Regen then I'd agree with you. He wasn't.

No, that's not true. Clay is much stronger than human flash, as far as impact goes. Additionally, you ignored my very correct point about internal organs. Are you forgetting what Guy said about that: You can't train them to be stronger. If Madara were real, he'd be dead from that initial kick, alone.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Naruto and Bee have both survived being hit by A relatively uninjured. But the funny thing is you using Suigetsu. The guy made of, you know, water. He's been injured by far less and turned to water. So no, I don't take stalk in his fallible statements that have been proven wrong by other characters. If I did, I'd have to acknowledge that Karin's kick is as strong as an attack from the Raikage. 🙂

Naruto: one of the most physically durable characters in the series, has massive regen abilities, and was in KCM.

Bee: One of the most physically durable characters in the series second or third only to his brother and maybe the Sandaime Raikage.

Raikge: A strong character but not nearly as strong as Tsuande.

Conclusion: your examples are irrelevant and do not make your point. They actually make mine.

About his arms: that's a bad comparison because Suigetsu can clearly adjust how "solid" his water is. Regardless of you trying to dismiss Suigetsu's claim, it still stands.

One is comedy, there other is serious.

http://www.mangareader.net/93-29786-8/naruto/chapter-461.html

Deal with that fact that I am right instead of trying to wiggle your way out of being wrong. That's just bad form.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Kay, if you want to stick with that theory. I'll go with the actual canon, which is a tad better option. You understand right?

1. U mad. Y u mad?

2. What you said is irrelevant to the portion you quoted.

3. Because of 1 and 2, I interpret your dodge as you realizing you were backed into a corner so I accept your concession.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
If he was completely blasted through the battle would have been over and he would not have been able to move. Remember, both the Third Raikage and Muu have been blasted through and they were effectively put dowwn.

That's not true: they still fought. Additionally, Madara did not do jack for quite some time until AFTER he was healed back up.

So you have simply proven my point with your example, yet again. 🙂

*cheers*

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Or option 3. Onoki nicked him. Which is the most probable based on ET bodies not showing super duper durability and Madara's wounds not looking bad at all.

Option 3 is impossible because his clothing AND armor was disintegrated behind his body and was also regening: that clearly indicates that the destruction extended past his body so it cannot be a nick.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And if you want to know why I say ET bodies do not show super duper durability compared to normal bodies: Ninjutsu hurts normal bodies in the same way it hurts Edo Tensei bodies. Taijutsu hurts normal bodies the way it hurts Edo Tensei bodies. And a sword hurts normal bodies just like Edo Tensei bodies. Hell, even [b]poison affects normal bodies in the same way as Edo Tensei bodies.[/B]

There's so much wrong with what you are doing here, it is painful. pained

To your first example...you're using the tech with the second highest penetration power to make your point (only the Sandaime Raikage's own lightning blade can be considered to have higher penetration power): fail. To make it more clear what you just tried to do: "Look, a marshmellow has the same durability no matter the heat you apply: a match or a supernova. The same, see!"

Taijutsu does not "hurt" just the same.

Taijutsu appears to be less effective against ET bodies.

Observe what barely any strength does for Tsunade against the ground:

http://www.mangareader.net/93-164-4/naruto/chapter-159.html

Now how do we know she wasn't serious with Naruto?

Oh...because she's drunk and says so, herself:

http://www.mangareader.net/93-163-12/naruto/chapter-158.html

So is all taijutsu created equal? NOPE! 🙂

So that's another fail, on your part.

Here's what a serious kick from Tsunade does to Madara:

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/562/14

Now why didn't he break in two? He should have, but he didn't.

We can conclude two things (you can only conclude two things from this):

1. Clay bodies are more durable against blunt force trauma.

2. PIS for the sake of having a story.

On to the poison point you made...

Genjutsu also work on the clay bodies so what's your point? Fact: neither poison nor genjutsu should work on the bodies because the bodies literally lack the cell-site receptors necessary for the poison, and the neurons for the genjutsu.

So what is it? PIS, obviously. It is made of clay. Kishimoto has proven on more than one occasion that he is writing fantasy.

So you failed on all 3 points you tried to make and even supported mine with the taijutsu point: clearly, the bodies are different when it comes to taijtsu. 🙂

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Except not. Had Madara been that injured, he wouldn't have been moving. Remember Muu and Raikage, who were both similarly injured and downed for a while for the former and just down for the latter.

Incorrect: the ET bodies can move even while they are being repaired.

Additionally, you're forgetting the actual point I made about why the hit would have destroyed a meatbag.

Hint: it has something to do with clay being more durable and internal organs.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Except he, you know, blocked it. Characters have taken far more damage than that without being out and out killed.

Incorrect: he was cringing, at best. The impact point shows the impact occurred on his guts. See the other points I made about why a serious Tsunade should have bisected good ol' Mads if Mads were meatbag.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
If he'd been blasted all the way through, he could not move at all. Lather, rinse, repeat and we've gone into a endless back and forth parroting the same lines over and over. Since we really don't see Onoki's attack hit, we really can't say for sure how much damage he sustained. Lol oh wells.

Good thing he didn't move for quite some time, then, right? Looks like he falls to the ground, stands up, and monologues while he was getting repaired. 🙂

Actually, we know how much damage was done to Madara's body because we can clearly see how "deep" the destruction goes on Madara's body based on how far back it vaped: the depth appears to be all the way through.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Now see, this is legitimately confusing. Not the panel but the argument. Why? Well the comment

The argument is clear from my perspective: it would appear that a large amount is regened very quickly in a split second and the superficial stuff is what takes a long time to regen.

So what does this mean? This is why when we see Madara stand up after taking the blast from Onoki, he already has most of his torso regened already. It would appear that the main body can regen in less than a second but the details/surface takes a while to regen. That makes sense if you consider that the body is clay so the "tech" just lumps clay together and then molds the fine outer-details.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Suggests that everything is happening in real time. Which hurts the argument that Madara was blasted through.

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/575/11

What? No, that directly supports my argument. Consider that the main body can regen quickly but the surface details take a while. If that happened in real time, my argument is perfect wit no holes.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Onoki disperses the attack and Madara lands and the next page we see his chest, not his armor, perfectly in tact. If the regen was happening in real time, for him to have been shot all the way through, ET would have regenerated his chest in a second.

That's the exact point I'm making: it literally regened the bulk of his body that quickly.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
However the statement "after a long ass talk with Sasuke, it has taken this long to get his armor back together" suggests that no, never mind. The regen is slow with armor but fast with clothes. I don't *think* this is the argument that you're trying to make but it's how I'm reading it.

No, that's not the arugment I am making. It is fast with the bulk of the body but slow with the superficial details which includes the "skin", clothes, and armor. But you're close with what I was getting at.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And then you compound the problem with posting an argument that the Regen is moving really fast after he'd been blown clean through by an actual attack. So at this point, I really am having a hard time discerning whether you think the regen is slow, which is supported by the manga in multiple places, or whether you think it's fast. This is not me busting your balls, this is me making a ?_? face.

It's both and neither: it is slow and fast. When skinny boy was blown up completely, the main portion of his body came together fairly quickly but after that, it took a while for the surface details to smooth out: much longer than the main portion of his body.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
He really doesn't. I see no reason to think Madara can't just summon another couple or meteors and be done with it. The fact that he is merely using the fight as a test shows that for him it's barely more than practice.

That's not true, he does. He was even getting irritated. He is also trying to test out all of his powers: that includes very high-level stuff that is essentially the same as "going all out". If he were taking it easy, he'd use something like Tsunade did: "one-finger". Note that I am using "one-finger" symbolically, not literally.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Which is how I see this argument. I've gotten what I wanted so if you feel the need to get the last word in by all means please do. NemeBro can continue in my place if he wants.

You did not get what you wanted. You think you made decent arguments but pretty much all of them failed because you use incorrect points (see the ones you tried to pass off with the ninjutsu, taijutsu, and poison) that were extremely flawed or simply misunderstood a point I was making (such as the main body regening faster than the surface details).

So your desire to get a "pwn" in to prove a point did not work. There is no argument you can make against my points because they were correct already. Unless it comes out that Madara had sick durability on par with the Raikage's or Naruto, I literally cannot be wrong.

Here's a point that will always be correct:

If Madara were a meatbag, he would have died multiple times in his fight against the 5 kage. By my count, that would be 5 times.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Dadudemon please spare me on the word quilt. I do not want. 🙁

Too late. Read it and weep.

You should be happy: I typed this one up very quickly so my arguments may not be as perfect. I am at work and we were working on an outage so I typed this one up in like...10-15 minutes?

Edit - Nemebro:

We should now toast weens.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Too late. Read it and weep.

You should be happy: I typed this one up very quickly so my arguments may not be as perfect. I am at work and we were working on an outage so I typed this one up in like...10-15 minutes?

No fawk you. 😠

And I could tell. Meh I could reply but it would be most of the same points with new things added. Pokemans aren't going to raise themselves.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
No fawk you. 😠

Hey, I think we toasted weens in that post. So I'm okay with it if you are. teehee

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And I could tell.

GASP! You're not supposed to agree with my self-deprecatory comments! 🙁

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Meh I could reply but it would be most of the same points with new things added. Pokemans aren't going to raise themselves.

That's pretty much what I did, as well: same points with minor things added. That's how most of mine and your "debates" go. Except...I will readily admit to being a Minato fanboy. stoned

i agree with ddm, but at the same time madara is fully aware about the fact that he's dead and can regenerate after being destroyed, hence his lackadaisical approach to this fight and his choice to use a suicidal attack no living character would attempt

the man is clearly doing the stereotypical "villain reveals all their secrets" and playing with his food because 1) he's an arsehole who is testing out his new powers on living beings and 2) he's holding all the cards, like he's got all four aces

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i agree with ddm, but at the same time madara is fully aware about the fact that he's dead and can regenerate after being destroyed, hence his lackadaisical approach to this fight and his choice to use a suicidal attack no living character would attempt

the man is clearly doing the stereotypical "villain reveals all their secrets" and playing with his food because 1) he's an arsehole who is testing out his new powers on living beings and 2) he's holding all the cards, like he's got all four aces

I do think he'd rely on tricks and tactics a lot more if he was alive, yes. Even now, we're starting to see him do stuff like use clones in the face of Tsunade's boost.

And yea, this is his chance to test his Senju powers in real combat. He started out with the Uchiha stuff, now he's focusing more on his new jutsu because his opponents will let him give it a workout.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i agree with ddm, but at the same time madara is fully aware about the fact that he's dead and can regenerate after being destroyed, hence his lackadaisical approach to this fight and his choice to use a suicidal attack no living character would attempt

the man is clearly doing the stereotypical "villain reveals all their secrets" and playing with his food because 1) he's an arsehole who is testing out his new powers on living beings and 2) he's holding all the cards, like he's got all four aces

I certainly do agree with you. I think that if he were a meatbag, he'd approach the fight much differently: he survived the hellish clan wars prior to the formation of Nations so it stands to reason that he could avoid death much easier against the Kage. He's definitely being careless.

Like...why doesn't he just use Tsukyomi? I could be giving Madara too much credit but surely he can alter time perception like Itachi?

Why doesn't he use Amaterasu? They have no legit defense against that minus Gaara putting his sand in the way.

Hmmm...maybe I really am giving Madara too much credit. Like...why doesn't he stay in Susano'o the whole time? His chakra levels were monstrous before his bonding with Hashirama's DNA...but now they should be at absurd levels (surpassing most biju, imo). I see no tactical advantage, except to save chakra, for not wearing his Susano'o the whole time.

I think there might be something else going on with this fight concerning Madara. I think we are missing something. Is Madara...stalling? Or is he preparing to do something else? Is it Kabuto? Things just aren't adding up, for me.

Originally posted by Q99
I do think he'd rely on tricks and tactics a lot more if he was alive, yes. Even now, we're starting to see him do stuff like use clones in the face of Tsunade's boost.

And yea, this is his chance to test his Senju powers in real combat. He started out with the Uchiha stuff, now he's focusing more on his new jutsu because his opponents will let him give it a workout.

I agree. But I still don't understand why he is conserving chakra like he is. There's something else he intends to do...

Originally posted by dadudemon

I agree. But I still don't understand why he is conserving chakra like he is. There's something else he intends to do...

He's not conserving chakra that much- he did two meteors, two large-scale wood jutsu, the flower jutsu, and used Susano'o a lot for defense.

He might be conserving chakra a bit now because the meteors took so much earlier.

Originally posted by Q99
He's not conserving chakra that much- he did two meteors, two large-scale wood jutsu, the flower jutsu, and used Susano'o a lot for defense.

He might be conserving chakra a bit now because the meteors took so much earlier.

That's possible but Sasuke made it seem like you can keep Susano'o up for quite a while...meaning, it is not a huge chakra drain. I don't think Sasuke even comes close to scratching the surface on how much Chakra Madara has.

That's my opinion, of course, and is fairly baseless. I just don't see Sasuke's chakra levels (stamina) being anymore than a 4.5, currently. That's really high, for sure...but not Raikage or Naruto levels.

IMO, there's something else about to happen with Madara which we do not know about. I don't think what Suigetsu was talking about is the same thing as Madara being the "plan" or whatevs. I think that thing Suigetsu saw was a plan involving the bonded and revived Madara.

What if there is a way to bypass all the biju for the moon's eye plan?