Originally posted by Nephthys
Whereas Kiba... got his ass kicked by Naruto and Sakon/Ukon and done nothing else of note, amiright?Hinata has actual motivations, a fleshed-out personality, conflicts and backstory. Kiba is just that dog guy.
Hinata was the only one to try and save Naruto and admitted her feelings towards him. Thats more character development than Kiba has.
Well if we're going by that logic then Kiba actually managed to, ya know, hit the guys he was fighting. And we'll just ignore how much of an important role he plays in other moments through the series, like being the go to guy for finding Sasuke.
Kiba has motivations. He wants to be Hokage and be stronger than Naruto-no just because these goals are out of his reach doesn't mean they don't count. They're better goals than wanting to be a strong ninja and Naruto's **** buddy. A fleshed out personality? Hahaha. Hinata's a horny chick. Dere ya go. Kiba has conflicts and personal fears as well. And you really can't use her flashback because it stopped being relevant to her character since it was introduced. And you really shouldn't just write him off as the dog guy, especially since the character you're defending admires that part of his character.I'm more sold on Kiba's care and worry for his dog than I have ever been for Hinata and her stupid infatuation with Naruto.
No, it really isn't. Know why? Because it doesn't matter. Hinata admitting her feelings didn't develop her as a character. She went right back into shy mode the minute the battle was over. She doesn't seem to have gained any confidence for herself at all. A lot of people blame Naruto(or rather Kishi) for not addressing the reveal but Hinata should just as easily be all "Um Naruto, could you like stop leaving me hanging?"
A development comes from when a character grows. When they have a believable transition from one point to the next. Like, say, Kiba treating Naruto like horseshit and then, after losing to the guy, gaining a whole new respect and jealousy for him.
Originally posted by Quincy
AuraAngel is making sense. I can dig it. I'm pretty much interested in seeing what everyone is capable of since the timeskip. I figure Kiba's two headed wolf form is one of the more impressive techniques. Weird how he hasn't utilized it.
Because Kishi hates Team 8 lol. Honestly, I like team 10 but the war really could have used some of it's time giving team 8 somethings to do.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Well if we're going by that logic then Kiba actually managed to, ya know, hit the guys he was fighting. And we'll just ignore how much of an important role he plays in other moments through the series, like being the go to guy for finding Sasuke.
Who cares, Hinata's fights actually matter.
Lol, 'important.' Remind me again, does he actually find Sasuke or does he actually not? I seem to remember him being ousmarted by frickin' Karin, lol. Face it, Kiba's role there could have been filled by Kakashi's dog summons. Kakashi was just being nice and letting Kiba pretend that he's a real ninja.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Kiba has motivations. He wants to be Hokage and be stronger than Naruto-no just because these goals are out of his reach doesn't mean they don't count. They're better goals than wanting to be a strong ninja and Naruto's **** buddy.
You mean this? That isn't a motivation, he was just being a prick to Naruto.
Hinata's goal is much more interesting, expanded upon and ties into her personality and flaws and her desire to overcome those flaws. Even if Kiba had an actual motivation, he's such a weak character that theres no reason behind it. He wants to be Hokage? Why? What actually motivates him? Nothing, he mentioned the thing in passing as a joke. Real impressive character development there.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
A fleshed out personality? Hahaha. Hinata's a horny chick. Dere ya go.
Wrong.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Kiba has conflicts and personal fears as well.
Name them.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
And you really can't use her flashback because it stopped being relevant to her character since it was introduced.
I can't? I wasn't aware that when we were talking about character development we only were talking about the stuff that you approve of.
Her backstory makes her a stronger character, as it explains her motivations and personality.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
And you really shouldn't just write him off as the dog guy, especially since the character you're defending admires that part of his character.
Irrelevent? How does Hinata liking him being the dog guy stop him from just being the dog guy?
Originally posted by AuraAngel
I'm more sold on Kiba's care and worry for his dog than I have ever been for Hinata and her stupid infatuation with Naruto.
Maybe because you have poor taste in characters? Honestly Kiba is such a bit-player I don't understand anyone buying into him.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
No, it really isn't. Know why? Because it doesn't matter. Hinata admitting her feelings didn't develop her as a character. She went right back into shy mode the minute the battle was over. She doesn't seem to have gained any confidence for herself at all. A lot of people blame Naruto(or rather Kishi) for not addressing the reveal but Hinata should just as easily be all "Um Naruto, could you like stop leaving me hanging?"
Yes it did. Simply because Kishi did not dwell on it does not mean it didn't happen. There were more important things to focus on than Hinata, such as the destruction of Konoha, Danzo and the Kage Summit.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
A development comes from when a character grows. When they have a believable transition from one point to the next. Like, say, Kiba treating Naruto like horseshit and then, after losing to the guy, gaining a whole new respect and jealousy for him.
You mean like Hinata acting like a timid doormat and then having one of the most badass moments in the chunin arc if not the entire manga (imo)? Or facing down own of the most powerful shinobi in the world who just blew up a village to protect the man she loves?
Oh yeah, but Kiba is cool too. His dog got reeeealy big!
Kiba is useless, Hinata is actually cool. I'd forgotten that she was actually linked into one of the main themes of the chunin exams (and Naruto as a character). So thanx Aura, I'd forgotten how sweet that convo was until I re-read it just meow.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Who cares, Hinata's fights actually matter.Lol, 'important.' Remind me again, does he actually find Sasuke or does he actually not? I seem to remember him being ousmarted by frickin' Karin, lol. Face it, Kiba's role there could have been filled by Kakashi's dog summons. Kakashi was just being nice and letting Kiba pretend that he's a real ninja.
In the same way that Rin's "fight" with Kakashi matters. Hinata's fights never matter for her personally because they are always used for getting a reaction out of Naruto. They clearly don't matter to her because she regresses back into her quiet, mumbling, and useless state right afterwards.
You win the explicitly wrong award! Yay!
Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean this? That isn't a motivation, he was just being a prick to Naruto.Hinata's goal is much more interesting, expanded upon and ties into her personality and flaws and her desire to overcome those flaws. Even if Kiba had an actual motivation, he's such a weak character that theres no reason behind it. He wants to be Hokage? Why? What [b]actually
motivates him? Nothing, he mentioned the thing in passing as a joke. Real impressive character development there.[/B]
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-58427-16/naruto/chapter-515.html
It wasn't. Also, gotta love how you use mangareader when you've been told several times that it doesn't work for those in the states. No skin off my bones of course because I know the scene you're referring to but it does make you look inattentive at best or just incompetent at worst.
Her goal might be more interesting but the character never makes any actual progress towards it. And Kiba wants to be stronger for the sake of being stronger. He's really kinda like Guy and Naruto in that he marks his rivals and wants to get better than them. And the reason it's good is because Kiba and Akamaru have gotten stronger, fulfilling what their goal is. Hinata doesn't. She has learned a few new moves but she is still a shit fighter. And she still hasn't gotten over her shyness and she always needs Naruto to be involved for her resolve to be worth a damn. Always.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Wrong.
You clearly do not remember how often Hinata obsesses over Naruto.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Name them.
He's afraid of losing Akamaru. It's simple, sure, but it's very well executed from the way he cradled his body during the fight to the way he was so concerned about him after the mission. It's basic but it is a fear.
It could also be argued that he fears being too weak, as he is rather cocky and ready to prove himself. He really does take it to heart that Akamaru got hurt because of him and that he lost to Naruto, both times resolving to become stronger. And sure enough, he does.
He also fears his mom.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I can't? I wasn't aware that when we were talking about character development we only were talking about the stuff that you approve of.Her backstory makes her a stronger character, as it explains her motivations and personality.
Well the thing is her backstory doesn't involve character development. It gives a base for why she wants to become stronger and by extension develop but it doesn't develop her. It simply adds more details and would make her more well rounded...except that her family issues are never really addressed. Apparently she got on better terms with her dad but we've seen more conversations between Kiba and his family than Hinata with hers(excluding Neji). But she hasn't gotten any better about being shy(or weak) and so she hasn't developed.
Originally posted by Nephthys
rrelevent? How does Hinata liking him being the dog guy stop him from just being the dog guy?Maybe because you have poor taste in characters? Honestly Kiba is such a bit-player I don't understand anyone buying into him.
Because having a hobby is a "good" character mark for minor characters who don't get to have as much attention.
Kiba has had more screentime due to being a big player in a big arc.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes it did. Simply because Kishi did not dwell on it does not mean it didn't happen. There were more important things to focus on than Hinata, such as the destruction of Konoha, Danzo and the Kage Summit.
No it didn't. The very next interaction between Hinata and Naruto she doesn't speak to him once. And then the very next time they meet she goes right back to hating herself and needing Naruto to encourage her. That isn't getting stronger as a person. No matter how you paint it.
Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean like Hinata acting like a timid doormat and then having one of the most badass moments in the chunin arc if not the entire manga (imo)? Or facing down own of the most powerful shinobi in the world who just blew up a village to protect the man she loves?Oh yeah, but Kiba is cool too. His dog got reeeealy big!
A doormat who needs encouragement to do things is only slightly more engaging than a regular doormat. And you act as though Kiba hasn't fought strong ninja before when he has fought with a Pain and Tobi himself(Hinata did nothing in this fight by the way).
Case in point: Hinata is worthless without Naruto there to motivate her in some way, either by saying nice things or by needing her help. Any resolve she has disappears shortly thereafter and she becomes the shy, self conscious girl who can't do anything once again. This is not an opinion. It is a showing in the manga.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Kiba is useless, Hinata is actually cool. I'd forgotten that she was actually linked into one of the main themes of the chunin exams (and Naruto as a character). So thanx Aura, I'd forgotten how sweet that convo was until I re-read it just meow.
Yes, that scene of her talking to her crush while hiding behind a log is truly powerful. Are you joking? Not that it matters. The next time we see the two on a page together she is as shy as always. Character development that is regressed is worthless.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Both Hinata and Kiba would have better jobs serving as one-dimensional door mats at this point, instead of being actual characters.
Stop your pointless angry sex sessions about two largely useless things.
I don't want to hear it. You're just jealous because I is hasing pointless secks sessions with someone other than you. uhuh
Originally posted by Tzeentch._how is she any more pathetic than Sakura when it comes to Sasuke? or hell, Naruto when it comes to Sasuke?
Hinata is the most pathetic character in the manga, and her obsession with an individual who, literally, does not reciprocate her feelings even a little bit, is actually more than a little disturbing. Move along, children.
Originally posted by marwash22
how is she any more pathetic than Sakura when it comes to Sasuke? or hell, Naruto when it comes to Sasuke?
Both of them are worse when it comes to their love obsessions, but Sakura and Naruto have things called "other major qualities" that make them more than a one-dimensional doormat, which is what Hinata is.
At least Hinata's character is consistent.
Kishi can't decide if he wants Sakura to be a strong female character or a weak-willed kitchen occupier who actively decides to rely on men to solve her problems, and Sasuke ranges from "Angsty and dangerous but still holds on to some semblance of his humanity" to "RAWR INSANE KILL IM INSANE" from week to week.