Originally posted by marwash22
how was that an asspull?
Because it...
Originally posted by NemeBro
...had no foreshadowing...
It is called introducing plot elements or character limitations at the moment it is necessary simply to have some sort of plot.
Fictional writers do it all the time when they do not know what direction they want to take a story or character.
i know what an asspull is... i just don't see THAT example as being one and wanted him to explain.
Tobi's ability was known at that point, we just didn't know the time limit before. You can't call it an asspull just because it's new information to an already known element... if that's how you define the term, then every time we learn something new, it's an asspull, and you should be complaining constantly.
Originally posted by marwash22
i know what an asspull is... i just don't see THAT example as being one and wanted him to explain.[QUOTE=14121715]Originally posted by marwash22
[B]Tobi's ability was known at that point, we just didn't know the time limit before.
You're using hindsight to come up with this explanation. Nobody had mentioned a "time-limit" regarding Tobi's ability before the "time-limit" was introduced by Kishimoto, himself. When I say "nobody", I mean that: no one thought there was a time-limit.
Originally posted by marwash22
You can't call it an asspull just because it's new information to an already known element... if that's how you define the term, then every time we learn something new, it's an asspull, and you should be complaining constantly.
This is illogical and non sequitur to the argument. Adding a limitation that was not implied or known about beforehand and using that time-limit specifically to make it the main point of conflict in a story is an asspull writing method. It takes no creativity or planning to do something like that. What Kishimoto did with Tobi is a textbook example of "asspull" writing. It does not get anymore plain than that.
Revealing information and coming up with a limitation with no planning and strategy for the sole purpose of creating conflict are not the same things.
Here is an example of revealing information: Oro was part of the plot to revive Madara. This spans dozens of chapters and hints. It revealed information. It showed how deep the rabbit hole regarding Oro's plans that shit really went.
Adding a time-limit to Tobi's intangibility with no prior hints or plot elements or even a reason to assume 5-minutes would still be relevant when Konan used that nugget of knowledge (Tobi could have improved since she found that out...like Kakashi obviously has)? Asspulled as all get-out.
in what situation before the Konan fight would it have made sense for the limitation to be a topic of conversation? You want the author to sprinkle in random-nonsensical blurbs about an ability's shortcomings... when there is absolutely no reason to do so? For that not to have been "asspull" Obito would have needed to either a) randomly mention that his ability had a limitation (any limitation, no matter how vague) which would make no sense, because why a character choose to tell people trying to kill him that he has a weakness, or b) find himself in a circumstance where he needed to go intangible for more than 5 minutes... in which case that would have been the first time we heard about the limitation, also making it in asspull.
It makes no sense. It basically sounds like you'd slap that label on anything that surprises you because it hadn't previously been mentioned. lol.
There are tons of similar examples where a character reveals a power/ability that wasn't previously alluded to... they're all asspulls?
It is an asspull because not only was there no prior foreshadowing, but the "revelation" came from nowhere and was used as the sole source of conflict and tension during the battle.
To give you an example of what isn't an asspull: Kakashi's method for harming Obito.
There were many hints and shit that Tobi could be Obito (As much as I dislike it) throughout the series, and by extension that means Kakashi's Mangekyo works on a similar principal to Obito's. Therefore, Kakashi's gambit working isn't an asspull because there is information there to imply such could be the case, and like the time limit it was the sole source of tension in the fight.
The revelation that Tobi can go intangible is not an asspull. The sudden placing of a time limit on it is.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It isn't, but by your logic Danzo using it would be an asspull. There was no foreshadowing for it.Like with Danzo, the timelimit was established so that it wouldn't be an asspull when the shinobi alliance says to exploit Tobi's weakness in this chapter.
Point out where "Danzo" appeared at all in my post. Your attempts at misdirection are laughable, but I'll play ball. So I can crush you.
And no it isn't. Izanagi was alluded to by the faggy prophecy shitbars and whatnot concerning the Sage, the Uchiha, and all that happy shit. Danzo having Sharingans isn't an asspull because:
A. Possessing one via transplant is a precedent set early in the manga by Danzo.
B. He played a big part in the Uchiha Massacre, and this adds more layers toward his reasons for wanting to killerise them.
C. He's bros4life with pedo Mengele.
Also, not really related to this discussion but...
Am I missing something? How do the Shinobi Alliance know of Obito's intangibility time limit? Is there something I'm forgetting? Obito and Konan were the only ones present when the limit was discussed that one time, by Konan.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Point out where "Danzo" appeared at all in my post. Your attempts at misdirection are laughable, but I'll play ball. So I can crush you.
Lolwut?
Originally posted by NemeBro
This is a power already established by Danzo.
WHY DON'T YOU DANCE SUCKA YOU GOT NOTHING ON ME!
Originally posted by NemeBro
And no it isn't. Izanagi was alluded to by the faggy prophecy shitbars and whatnot concerning the Sage, the Uchiha, and all that happy shit.
Lolwut? When is Izanagi foreshadowed in all of that?
Originally posted by NemeBro
Danzo having Sharingans isn't an asspull because:A. Possessing one via transplant is a precedent set early in the manga by Danzo.
B. He played a big part in the Uchiha Massacre, and this adds more layers toward his reasons for wanting to killerise them.
C. He's bros4life with pedo Mengele.
Also, not really related to this discussion but...
Yes, this is not related to this discussion or anything I said. Nice one homes.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Am I missing something? How do the Shinobi Alliance know of Obito's intangibility time limit? Is there something I'm forgetting? Obito and Konan were the only ones present when the limit was discussed that one time, by Konan.
Konan probably mailed them a memo about it.
Originally posted by marwash22
in what situation before the Konan fight would it have made sense for the limitation to be a topic of conversation?
"I better make my exit from Kakashi's team of brats...I've already used up 1 minute out of the five" said Tobi in his mind during his taunting session with Kakashi the "first" time they met in the manga.
Or:
Naruto: Why do I keep passing right through you? Are you invulnerable or something? Dattebayoooo!
Obito: My 'special' ability is certainly limited, ku ku ku...If you figure out how, I'll tell you where Sasuke is.
Both options are silly and stupid. But infinitely better than the poor writing we got with the, "SUURPISSSSSE! It is limited in this manner because the plot calls for it. Oh, by the way, that still doesn't work because I have a counter to that that was never mentioned or hinted at the whole series, too! WEEEE! Suck it, Naruto fans."
Originally posted by marwash22
it makes no sense.
I agree that it makes no sense: that's why Kishimoto should have written the story a bit better. 🙂 He did with other areas like Oro's rabbit-hole involvement. That was great writing.
Originally posted by marwash22
There are tons of similar examples where a character reveals a power/ability that wasn't previously alluded to... they're all asspulls?
YES! Every single one of them. Now you're getting it! 😄
Originally posted by Nephthys
The fight with Danzo came before the Konan fight actually.....
The "ten minutes" versus "five minutes" or whatever lame asspull Kishimoto wrote to make it to where Tobi could outlast the 10 minute continuous bursts from Konan was not mentioned prior, at all. We already saw Senju cells mixed with Uchiha eyes and it lasted 60 seconds per eye. That's just asspulling an ability simply to overcome another asspulled ability: Konan's giant sea of explosion tags that she had "prepared" long before the events occurred.
In fact, the entire thing was such an asspull that the same chapter shows Kishimoto was not thinking ahead in just one chapter:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c510/2.html
There, Tobi says he is going to have to avoid the exploding tags. But wait! There's more!
He then changes his mind and says, "Nah, just kidding..I used Izanagi to last those 10 minutes. Derpy dooo!"
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v54/c510/10.html
Entire fight...asspulled.
I thought tobi could use Izanagi for 5 minutes? He can stay intangible for 5 and then use Izanagi for 5. makes sense considering he is an Uchiha so the sharingan is less taxing and he has senju DNA to enhance it further. Danzou was borrowing sharingans so his techs should be weaker or harder to sustain.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
One Piece and Bleach do not get nearly this much silly arguments.Though at one point the people in the Bleach thread had an argument on whether Ishida could assimilate a Shinigami. As of Kirge it is possible I suppose.
Naruto's much more precise, so it's easier to argue over small things.
Bleach used to get more until it became increasingly obvious the power levels were inconsistent.