The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by AuraAngel

Dust Release lets you be born to nuke without any prerequisite.

It does require training apparently, a big deal was made of Onoki learning it from Muu. But yea, genetics.

That said you guys are wrong. Bijuu Bombs have become another tool for strategy, not it's replacement. Remember when they aimed for the Juubi's eye and stuff? I'll admit that Naruto powering up an army is silly especially without getting tired but it is still a strategy. As is aiming for Madara and Obito instead of attacking the Juubi. And so is Bee launching himself right into the Juubi's mouth, pushing it's Bijuu bomb inside.

Strategy still exists and while there are moments of horrendous PIS(mostly involving Onoki) that does not change things.

Heck, aiming for the eye wasn't sufficient strategy, or attacking from above. It was only because Bee used Kakashi to get surprise that it worked.

Strong moves are win against weakest foes, but that's hardly unique to biju balls- if a foe is weak enough, then Zabuza's mist-kill technique is an instant win! Not to mention the ever-popular Minato relies on an attack that normally requires no strategy beyond 'appear next to enemy, cut throat.' Not very deep... unless the foe is high level themselves.

Biju Ball isn't different, really. Overpowers weak foes, but against strong foes you need to be smart with it. And considering it is being used against strong foes and people are being smart with it, and even then it's not winning fights... yea, you're totally right, Aura.

NemeBro
Onoki destroyed 25 chakra clones, and before you bring up Tsunade's chakra powering him, I'll note that the only reason Onoki even needed chakra was because he himself was getting very low.

I'm going to bring it up because he never did a Dust release that big or strong on his own.

I will also note how it was in turn part of a large strategy where Mei Terumi, A, and Gaara worked together to trap Madara by sending an electrified-water-dragon with sand in it through the dust block to catch him by surprise.

It's all about the teamwork.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Well from Sasuke's point of view since he saw Itachi's genjutsu Sarutobi was the one who clearly didn't want to kill anyone.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
But at the same time Sasuke can say that Sarutobi, as Hokage, should have prevented Danzo from being able to make that deal with Itachi.

Originally posted by Kento
He wants to destroy a whole village of innocents, since there are non-ninja living in Konoha, all because a few old people that control everything and noone until Tsunade stood up too had the Uchiha killed. So I don't think he really cared for the Sarutobi didn't want to part.

I don't even think Sasuke would go that deep into it. Just Sarutobi was Hokage at time, he must be blamed. But maybe after Itachi's little speech he will not be like that.

Indeed, two wrongs don't make a right. But Sasuke does have every right to blame someone for a crime done to him. And Hiruzen is the one who was Hokage at the time.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Indeed, two wrongs don't make a right. But Sasuke does have every right to blame someone for a crime done to him. And Hiruzen is the one who was Hokage at the time.

Originally posted by Kento
Sasuke really has no right to blame anyone except two people. The one person he now loves Itachi, and the person he killed Danzou. Sarutobi did do one thing wrong though, giving Naruto more attention when he was meant to protect both. But Sasuke had everyone, and Naruto had everyone hating him, and wishing he was dead so.

Incorrect, he has every right to blame four people(five if he wanted to include Itachi but he clearly doesn't). Sarutobi might not have wanted to kill the Uchiha but yes, he is just as responsible for their massacre. Sasuke is not right in wanting to punish others for this of course but Sarutobi is legit part of the responsible party here.

Sasuke should just blame the Uchina for wanting to do a coup d'état, its all their fault for being such an arrogant and stupid clan.

Originally posted by Bentley
Sasuke should just blame the Uchina for wanting to do a coup d'état, its all their fault for being such an arrogant and stupid clan.

He partly does. Those Uchina bastards trying to do a coup. But the old people are to blame for killing the Uchiha by mistake.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Incorrect, he has every right to blame four people(five if he wanted to include Itachi but he clearly doesn't). Sarutobi might not have wanted to kill the Uchiha but yes, he is just as responsible for their massacre. Sasuke is not right in wanting to punish others for this of course but Sarutobi is legit part of the responsible party here.

I think you're wrong, here, as well. He argued against killing the Uchiha off. Thoroughly, in fact. Hiruzen held out and hoped for peace. Additionally, he could not do anything about Itachi's success. It was not shown that Sarutobi would know when or even if it was going to happen after the argument over it. Itachi was an elite ninja assassin by that point. He quickly escaped after the massacre. At that point, it was impossible to track him down.

The only way Sasuke can legitimately blame Sarutobi is if he says Hiruzen should have killed Danzo when Danzo started talking crazy shit about genocide.

Tobi implies that he knew about it. And if it was done without Hiruzen knowing at all, than he can still be blamed for not protecting the clan and letting Danzo go unpunished.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Tobi implies that he knew about it. And if it was done without Hiruzen knowing at all, than he can still be blamed for not protecting the clan and letting Danzo go unpunished.

Danzou initiated it, Itachi carried it out. Elders set back and did nothing except know it was gonna happen, so yes 4 people can be blamed at least. There is no evidence either way to know if Saru knew before hand or when Itachi came to him. But with Saru's personality it be easier to say afterwards. Guess we will find out though.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Tobi implies that he knew about it.

Hiruzen knew about the suggestion but he did not know that they were going to go ahead with the plan. Hiruzen never once endorsed that plan and almost naively continued to consider peace as the option.

Fact: Hiruzen was aware that everyone except him was gung ho for the plan to eradicate the Uchiha. The fact that he disagrees does not mean he was unaware of the possibility of the massacre. Because he wasn't.

Fact: The massacre happened. We do not get 100% confirmation that Hiruzen knew that it was going to take place. However he was certainly aware that it happened afterwards and knew the three people who would be responsible. No punishment as far as we know was given.

Hiruzen knew about the possibility of the massacre and when it happened there was zero proof that he punished Danzo and co. Given this, it's not unfair of me to infer that they just talked him into it eventually. If he DIDN'T know then Hiruzen is a shitastic leader who will allow people who carry out drastic measures without his consent go unpunished. Either one is a perfect reason for Sasuke to blame Hiruzen.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Fact: Hiruzen was aware that everyone except him was gung ho for the plan to eradicate the Uchiha. The fact that he disagrees does not mean he was unaware of the possibility of the massacre. Because he wasn't.

Fact: The massacre happened. We do not get 100% confirmation that Hiruzen knew that it was going to take place. However he was certainly aware that it happened afterwards and knew the three people who would be responsible. No punishment as far as we know was given.

Hiruzen knew about the possibility of the massacre and when it happened there was zero proof that he punished Danzo and co. Given this, it's not unfair of me to infer that they just talked him into it eventually. If he DIDN'T know then Hiruzen is a shitastic leader who will allow people who carry out drastic measures without his consent go unpunished. Either one is a perfect reason for Sasuke to blame Hiruzen.

If he gave them so much power that they can literally overrule him then he is still a pretty bad leader lol. And you don't need to carry out punishments openly.

The only way Hiruzen comes out of this spotless is if Shisui's eye is involved(which isn't impossible). But Shisui's eye is one of the most broken things in the manga and creates quite a few plot holes itself.

Nobody ever said Saru is a good leader. lol Being Kage is never about being a good leader, it's position of strongest in the village anyway.

He got beaten by a genin. uhuh

He got beaten by something worse than that. He was beaten by a Academy Student.

True...still a genin now though. awesome

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Hiruzen knew about the possibility of the massacre and when it happened there was zero proof that he punished Danzo and co.

Probably because there was likely zero proof of Danzo's involvement. Danzo could easily pass it of as Itachi just going insane, and theres nothing indicating anyone was blamed for it other than Itachi.

Really though, Sasuke has no right to blame anyone since he's just as much of a psychopath as Danzo and frankly he needs to grow the **** up and get over it. He isn't the only one whose parents have been killed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Probably because there was likely zero proof of Danzo's involvement. Danzo could easily pass it of as Itachi just going insane, and theres nothing indicating anyone was blamed for it other than Itachi.

Really though, Sasuke has no right to blame anyone since he's just as much of a psychopath as Danzo and frankly he needs to grow the **** up and get over it. He isn't the only one whose parents have been killed.

Except Danzo was clearly for it and it clearly happened. And Itachi came to Sarutobi about it. But let's say the last part was a lie. It would mean Hiruzen was colossally stupid lol.

No, you're wrong. A crime does not change based on who it was committed to. Sasuke's insanity means absolutely nothing since, quite frankly, it's clear the the massacre was a traumatizing event to him. The elders WRONGED him, end of story.