The Official Naruto series Thread

Plausible deniability. If theres nothing actually tying him to it, Sarutobi can hardly blame him for it. When did he do that?

Sasuke managed years without going insane. It isn't as simple as massacre = loopy loony land. And I was more talking about how Sasuke doesn't exactly have much grounds to wag his finger at Danzo when he was happily advocating genocide in retaliation. It's like a murderer getting incensed over the actions of a rapist. ****ing hilarious.

Edit: Especially when Danzo's actions actually have the excuse of being in service of protecting the village whereas Sasuke just wants revenge.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Plausible deniability. If theres nothing actually tying him to it, Sarutobi can hardly blame him for it. When did he do that?

Sasuke managed years without going insane. It isn't as simple as massacre = loopy loony land. And I was more talking about how Sasuke doesn't exactly have much grounds to wag his finger at Danzo when he was happily advocating genocide in retaliation. It's like a murderer getting incensed over the actions of a rapist. ****ing hilarious.

Edit: Especially when Danzo's actions actually have the excuse of being in service of protecting the village whereas Sasuke just wants revenge.

Except you know, that whole advocating for it thing and needing to believe that Itachi was acting completely out of character. And Tobi said Itachi went to Hiruzen to ask him to protect Sasuke.

A traumatizing experience is a scar. It doesn't just go away after a long time. Nothing changes the fact that had the massacre not happened then Sasuke would not be in this position. And a murderer has every ****ing right to get mad at rapist if said rapist raped his entire family. Sasuke does not have the moral high ground based on what he's going to do but does he have a right to complain to the guys who are responsible? Hell yes.

Edit: So horrible actions are justifiable so long as it's for the greater good? The problem there is 1) it implies that there is only two choices in the matter, 2) it implies that the dead party has no legitimate point, and 3) implies a naive idea that people who are severely wronged to the point that their entire lives are changed give a shit about the greater good.

Even with all that in mind you're comparing a sane man to an insane child whose insanity is clearly linked to the actions of the former. Quit defending Danzo.

Advocating for it doesn't mean he actually had anything to do with it. And Itachi fought in a war at a very young age, people could buy that he'd just lost it. Lol, Tobi is a liar.

And a scar can fester if you open it up again and refuse to let it heal. Sasuke went insane because he kept feeding his hatred and gave in to it. Said murderer has no right to get mad at him because he's done as bad or worse to someone else and that persons family. If human life is so worthless to him then he has no right to be angered when someone else tramples on it just like he did.

Yes.

You clearly do not see criminals as people if any crime done to them is automatically invalidated by the fact that they are criminals. I could go to jail this instant, find a criminal, and then beat the shit out of them because who the hell cares right?

I sure wouldn't.

Unless they're like, a petty burglar or something, lol.

Then I can go to their house and steal their shit cause they're a burglar and they deserve it!

You realize that is a morally detestable way of thinking right? And you have the audacity to have sympathy for Azula? 😬

Well, not legally. But I sure would call bullshit if they got indignant over it.

Technically, Azula never actually does anything wrong in the entire show. She doesn't kill anyone and everyone she attacks are enemies of the Fire Nation, of which she is a military member of.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well, not legally. But I sure would call bullshit if they got indignant over it.

Technically, Azula never actually does anything wrong in the entire show. She doesn't kill anyone and everyone she attacks are enemies of the Fire Nation, of which she is a military member of.

What do they have to be indignant about? They're criminals, not humans.

She killed the Avatar. Failing to do so does not make the act any less heinous. And by that logic Sasuke has not killed a single villager. And he's a criminal, and thus can not be judged by the moral standards of humans like us.

Lol. TBH I don't care about lesser crimes like burglary. It's only when you show such a viscous disregard of life as to murder, torture or rape someone that I don't give a fvck about your rights as a human being.

Who was the Fire Nations most wanted. From her point of view, she was a hero.

And yes, Sasuke has never actually killed someone. Not for lack of trying though.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol. TBH I don't care about lesser crimes like burglary. It's only when you show such a viscous disregard of life as to murder, torture or rape someone that I don't give a fvck about your rights as a human being.

Who was the Fire Nations most wanted. From her point of view, she was a hero.

And yes, Sasuke has never actually killed someone. Not for lack of trying though.

Repentance is apparently not a word you know apparently.

Ah, so if they're a patriotic piece of shit then it's okay. I don't even feel the need to poke holes in this one.

huh, so once again the kages get revived. anyone else surprised by how Orochimaru pulled this off? seriously.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Repentance is apparently not a word you know apparently.

Ah, so if they're a patriotic piece of shit then it's okay. I don't even feel the need to poke holes in this one.

Those kinds of people do not deserve the chance at rehabilitation.

Killing an enemy of your nation in wartime isn't exactly something I'm inclined to get angry about tbh. :I

Especially when said enemy has already obliterated the entire Fire Nation navy single-handedly.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Fact: Hiruzen was aware that everyone except him was gung ho for the plan to eradicate the Uchiha.

Fact: this everyone consisted of less than 5 people.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
The fact that he disagrees does not mean he was unaware of the possibility of the massacre. Because he wasn't.

Fact: the fact that he did not okay the plan nor did he endorse it nor was he aware that Itachi was going to consult with Madara to complete the plan does not mean Hiruzen had any reason to conclude that the massacre could happen until he knew about it. What you have done, good sir, is entertained conjecture.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Fact: The massacre happened. We do not get 100% confirmation that Hiruzen knew that it was going to take place.

Fact: we got 0% confirmation that he knew it was going to take place. Passing around ideas is not the same thing as knowing, with a surety, that a plan would take place.

Fact: Hiruzen's bets were on peace. This, thusly, contradicts your assertion that Hiruzen thought, even slightly, that the massacre was a sure event.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
However he was certainly aware that it happened afterwards and knew the three people who would be responsible. No punishment as far as we know was given.

Which partially confirms Danzo's point that Hiruzen was too soft/a vagina.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Hiruzen knew about the possibility of the massacre and when it happened there was zero proof that he punished Danzo and co.

Is there an echo in here?

Also, where is the proof that he could punish danzo and the two council members?

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Given this, it's not unfair of me to infer that they just talked him into it eventually.

Well, no, you couldn't conclude that. You can only conclude that Hiruzen opposed it and supported peace talks till the bitter end. Any other conclusions are baseless speculation.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
If he DIDN'T know then Hiruzen is a shitastic leader who will allow people who carry out drastic measures without his consent go unpunished. Either one is a perfect reason for Sasuke to blame Hiruzen.

How about this? Itachi's lies actually stuck and Hiruzen really thought that they were wiped out because Itachi had gone ape shit?

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Except Danzo was clearly for it and it clearly happened. And Itachi came to Sarutobi about it. But let's say the last part was a lie. It would mean Hiruzen was colossally stupid lol.

Yes, but was Danzo for having Itachi, specifically, execute the plan? Sure, it would cause suspicions but there's no reason for Hiruzen to conclude that Danzo was 100% responsible.

Also, Aura, you seem mad, bro. It is all gravy, brother. You know damn well that you'll probably be right because the next 2 or 3 chapters will prove you right. Just let us have our fun until Kishimoto reads this thread and gets more ideas from you.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I couldn't understand your post, too well. All I got out of your post was, "Suck it, Marawash." 😄

Originally posted by Nephthys
Those kinds of people do not deserve the chance at rehabilitation.

Killing an enemy of your nation in wartime isn't exactly something I'm inclined to get angry about tbh. :I

Especially when said enemy has already obliterated the entire Fire Nation navy single-handedly.

That is not for just you to decide.

And ah, I see. So genocide, killing the moon, killing Jesus, and burning a continent down are all justified so long as it's for the Fatherland. These are all unprovoked attacks mind you.

Whereas Sasuke certainly does want to kill Konoha but only after a few assholes basically pushed him over the edge of insanity by having his family killed and being tricked into hating the only family he had left for the half of his life.

So both parties are doing morally reprehensible things but there are a few differences.

1. Reason. One is revenge for a past wrong doing(in his mind), the other is because conquering is fun.
2. Scale. One is a village, the other is an entire race of people and an entire continent. And don't forget the gods.

And yeah, I'll hold Azula accountable for wanting to burn down an entire continent(her idea) and killing the Avatar(she tried and kinda did) for no real reason other than daddy said so. And no, don't even dare compare Azula to some mook soldier. She is royalty and only answers to her father. In real life she'd have been executed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Those kinds of people do not deserve the chance at rehabilitation.

Originally posted by marwash22
reported for sexual harassment.

"I swear officer, she liked it! She said kept saying no but her body said yes."

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Why?

Because an innocent human life is the most precious gift on the planet. When you abuse life to the degree of committing those crimes, you forfeit your right to that gift. Furthermore, it would be grossly negligent to put innocent people at risk just to give these people another shot at a decent life when they've already demonstrated the capacity for such evil.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
That is not for just you to decide.

And ah, I see. So genocide, killing the moon, killing Jesus, and burning a continent down are all justified so long as it's for the Fatherland. These are all unprovoked attacks mind you.

Whereas Sasuke certainly does want to kill Konoha but only after a few assholes basically pushed him over the edge of insanity by having his family killed and being tricked into hating the only family he had left for the half of his life.

So both parties are doing morally reprehensible things but there are a few differences.

1. Reason. One is revenge for a past wrong doing(in his mind), the other is because conquering is fun.
2. Scale. One is a village, the other is an entire race of people and an entire continent. And don't forget the gods.

And yeah, I'll hold Azula accountable for wanting to burn down an entire continent(her idea) and killing the Avatar(she tried and kinda did) for no real reason other than daddy said so. And no, don't even dare compare Azula to some mook soldier. She is royalty and only answers to her father. In real life she'd have been executed.

Oh? And who is it for to decide? Why is my opinion so unimportant?

Azula only ever did one of those. And if you recall this was only after Aang murdered thousands of Fire Nation troops at the North Pole. I'd say that's pretty justifiable. For anyone except Aang, she's only ever captured them or had them captured. Aang is too dangerous to just capture and if you'll recall x 2 combo, Aang has already escaped capture numerous times by that point.

Pffft, what Azula said in that war meeting was a posturing off-hand comment. I've never taken it as a serious suggestion of hers. It was Ozai who was crazy enough to run with it. Sure, she didn't seem that broken up over it (she is still a villain) and seemed eager to perform it alongside dear old dad (hint hint), but Ozia still takes the blame in my mind.

And if Azula had let Aang walk away she would have been guilty of treason and gotten half her face burnt off. Aang is the biggest enemy of her nation, during wartime, who has already destroyed a huge fleet single-handed. What was she supposed to do, let him activate his Bullshit Uber Mode and get away? Or worse, kill her?

Originally posted by AuraAngel
That is not for just you to decide.

And ah, I see. So genocide, killing the moon, killing Jesus, and burning a continent down are all justified so long as it's for the Fatherland. These are all unprovoked attacks mind you.

Whereas Sasuke certainly does want to kill Konoha but only after a few assholes basically pushed him over the edge of insanity by having his family killed and being tricked into hating the only family he had left for the half of his life.

So both parties are doing morally reprehensible things but there are a few differences.

1. Reason. One is revenge for a past wrong doing(in his mind), the other is because conquering is fun.
2. Scale. One is a village, the other is an entire race of people and an entire continent. And don't forget the gods.

And yeah, I'll hold Azula accountable for wanting to burn down an entire continent(her idea) and killing the Avatar(she tried and kinda did) for no real reason other than daddy said so. And no, don't even dare compare Azula to some mook soldier. She is royalty and only answers to her father. In real life she'd have been executed.

It is impossible to justify your position as morally superior to Nephthys because they are all slices of arbitrary morality.

Only the invocation of a deontological moral system can triumph in a moral discussion like this.

Basically, you cannot win this moral debate unless you leverage a Objective Truth system (that is capital O, baby) such as God. This is the bane and problem with all philosophical debates regarding morality. You are no more correct than Nephthys in you moral perspectives and no amount of arguing about it will change that. You can use all sorts of nice logic and reasoning but your argument will always fundamentally fall flat on its face.

Obviously, I agree with you, though. 😐

There are some people who replace God with the Law as a thing higher than us that we cannot argue with. Personally, I don't see it that way. The law is a fallible system created by fallible people. It's been wrong numerous times, is constantly changing and often/occasionally proves inadequate it dealing out justice and protecting the citizenry that obey it.