Originally posted by wakkawakkawakkakishi has to make the juubi look impressive, he can't have madara showing it's dumb ass up again.
Which reminds me that there's a terrible amount of CIS going on in this war. Once the Juubi was let loose couldn't Madara start using sleepy flowers and dropping meteors.
Naruto's about to get the other half of the kyuubi's power
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Which reminds me that there's a terrible amount of CIS going on in this war. Once the Juubi was let loose couldn't Madara start using sleepy flowers and dropping meteors.
Naruto could counter a lot of that, and remember that Madara's spending effort to control the Juubi (and Tobi was too for awhile). I'm pretty sure they commented that taking control of it isn't effortless.
Originally posted by Q99
Naruto could counter a lot of that, and remember that Madara's spending effort to control the Juubi (and Tobi was too for awhile). I'm pretty sure they commented that taking control of it isn't effortless.
He couldn't counter Madara's stuff right now considering he's almost out of chakra. And since Madara's not actively controlling the Juubi I don't see why sleepy flowers or Susanoo clones aren't an option.
Originally posted by Q99Spoiler:
Also, apparently you can use jutsu out of your element! It just sucks unless you have literally thousands and thousands of ninja doing it.
That was actually explained in the anime years ago (and possibly the manga, too). Remember Kakuzu's fight?
Ninja's have always been able to use ninjutsus out of their element, they just were not very strong.
Originally posted by AuraAngelHinata and Kiba get a lot more screen time than Shino though. Poor guy has almost zero showings. And was probably the second strongest genin at the start of the show, if not the strongest.
You know I really like Team 10 but **** if they don't hog the screen time like bastards. Team Guy is okay since they kinda got their own manga but god does Team 8 suffer for it. Those characters are pathetically underdeveloped by comparison. Shame cause I like Kiba.
Originally posted by marwash22Sure she has, imagine the ability a psychic linked Team Asuma has? Shikmaru wouldn't need to ever talk, just instant plan and have Ino and Chouji already on it.
her dad (who is better than her) was doing it before... she never had a reason to display the ability until now.
Originally posted by Demonic PhoenixAnd just a tiny bit stronger than Juubi-host Sage.
Madara's probably a lot stronger than a Juubi-less Sage of the Six Paths. vinLol, all she needs now is Telekinesis and Density Shifting, and she'd be a weak-ass Martian.
She's already got shapeshifting, and hasn't there been a tk type ability? I can't remember. 😆
Originally posted by Kentoit doesn't appear that she (or her father) is able to move while using the tech. I don't think that's a good tech to use in battle... she'd have to hide somewhere and let Chouji and Shika go at it alone, which would kill the InoShikaCho combo.
Sure she has, imagine the ability a psychic linked Team Asuma has? Shikmaru wouldn't need to ever talk, just instant plan and have Ino and Chouji already on it.
Originally posted by dadudemon
That was actually explained in the anime years ago (and possibly the manga, too). Remember Kakuzu's fight?
In the Kakuzu fight, people were *shocked* he could do so many, and he could do so because he had the hearts of ninja with those affinities.
Ninja's have always been able to use ninjutsus out of their element, they just were not very strong. [/B]
Ninja normally have 1 or 2 or, very rarely, 3 elements unless they're cheating (extra hearts or rinnegan), with additional ones taking a lot of practice. Even Kage class shinobi seem to top out at 3.
Using 'em outside the element, even if weak, isn't something we've seen before.
Originally posted by Q99
Using 'em outside the element, even if weak, isn't something we've seen before.
I disagree. I think we've all seen it. It has always been "you can usually master 1 or 2...jonin usually have 2". But it has never been, "you cannot use any from any element besides your affinities."
The fight with kakuzu solidified that notion. They were shocked because the attacks from each element were very powerful...not that he was using different elements. Everyone can use different elements but you cannot master them all without eye-ball blessings or forbidden jutsus.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I disagree. I think we've all seen it. It has always been "you can usually master 1 or 2...jonin usually have 2". But it has never been, "you cannot use any from any element besides your affinities."
We have never seen someone use an element outside their affinities, is my point.
I mean, it makes sense that if they're crap, you don't use them, but we haven't seen them before and it's never been clearly mentioned before.
Marwash
way back in part-1, Gama (without knowing anything about Naruto) told him to use a fire jutsu during the Gaara fight... it think that indicates that anyone can use any nature.
Or that or he just thought Naruto might.
also, they're called affinities for reason, you're born with a bias to an element, but not cut off from the rest.
Well, technically speaking, only one is your 'affinity'. We did know you could learn additional (which are normally at lesser level). We didn't know there were 'anyone can do it' level element jutsu.
Originally posted by Q99Well, technically speaking, only one is your 'affinity'. We did know you could learn additional (which are normally at lesser level). We didn't know there were 'anyone can do it' level element jutsu.
It wasn't stated outright, but it could be deduced. We already knew that a ninja could use elemental ninjutsu that he/she did not have an affinity for. It needed practice. The more practice and chakra they put into a jutsu/element, the better they'd be at it.
Jutsus have ranks and they are graded based on how difficult they are to perform. Shikamaru called the tech a 'simple jutsu' so it would likely be genin/chuunin level jutsu. It should not be too hard for a Chuunin or Jonin to perform elemental jutsu of that level. All that changes is that the move would suck.
My two cents.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
It wasn't stated outright, but it could be deduced. We already knew that a ninja could use elemental ninjutsu that he/she did not have an affinity for. It needed practice. The more practice and chakra they put into a jutsu/element, the better they'd be at it.Jutsus have ranks and they are graded based on how difficult they are to perform. Shikamaru called the tech a 'simple jutsu' so it would likely be genin/chuunin level jutsu. It should not be too hard for a Chuunin or Jonin to perform elemental jutsu of that level. All that changes is that the move would suck.
My two cents.
Those happen to be my two cents, as well. It is possible, if a person had a long enough life-span, to have master-level elemental jutsus of all 5 affinities. Naruto could possibly pull that off with his shadow clone training.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
It wasn't stated outright, but it could be deduced. We already knew that a ninja could use elemental ninjutsu that he/she did not have an affinity for. It needed practice. The more practice and chakra they put into a jutsu/element, the better they'd be at it.
But even the best ninja we know, even old ones, normally have two, and those with multiple tend to be noticeably better at some than others, so it very much seems to be a diminishing return thing. Like, you're best at your affinity, probably can get pretty good at a second area, generally pretty naff at a third although a few luck out...
I'd guess that regardless of it being 'possible,' since chakra affinity seems highly genetic, by the four almost anyone is probably going to be down to genin/cadet stuff.
Jutsus have ranks and they are graded based on how difficult they are to perform. Shikamaru called the tech a 'simple jutsu' so it would likely be genin/chuunin level jutsu. It should not be too hard for a Chuunin or Jonin to perform elemental jutsu of that level. All that changes is that the move would suck.
Genin/chunin level? Cadet level, more like. Most of the people they're having do it are genin, and most of them don't have any nature release jutsu of any power. Even chunin and jonin, won't have the skills in an element they haven't trained for, and some S-class ninja only have chunin level stuff in their second element (Kisame, for example, only has the earth-swim jutsu and that's it).
This is a very crappy jutsu amplified thousands of times over.
Thing is if ninja couldn't use EVERY element...Sharingan would be useless as it copies any jutsu a person uses, and lets the user of a sharingan use that jutsu, That's why Kakashi is the 1000 jutsu master. And Sarutobi is said to know every jutsu in konoha that isn't bloodline. Kakuzu main thing was he had affinity for each element wasn't it? Kakashi himself has used Earth, Water, and Lightning. And his water jutsu was as good as someone whose affinity was most likely water.
Thing is if ninja couldn't use EVERY element...Sharingan would be useless as it copies any jutsu a person uses, and lets the user of a sharingan use that jutsu,
It'd limit them to jutsu of their elements, generic jutsu, genjutsu, taijutsu, and such, which is still a lot.
And I will point out... Itachi? Only used two elements ever. Sasuke? Only used two elements ever. Madara? Aside from his implanted jutsu, only fire. Kakashi's the only known sharingan user with more than two, and I think in three elements + genjutsu + generic jutsu you could get to a thousand (assuming it's an actual thousand and thousand is not just a stand in for a generic big number).
That's one of the primary arguments against being able to pick up jutsu outside 1-2 (and rarely 3) elements: Even the Sharingan users who have an explicit jutsu-learning trick only have good elemental chakra for 1-3 elements.
Kakashi himself has used Earth, Water, and Lightning. And his water jutsu was as good as someone whose affinity was most likely water.
Yes, but his earth jutsu are smaller and less impressive than either. For Kakashi, I'd say he has an affinity for Lightning, is also really good at molding water, and ok-ish at earth.
Originally posted by Q99
But even the best ninja we know, even old ones, normally have two, and those with multiple tend to be noticeably better at some than others, so it very much seems to be a diminishing return thing. Like, you're best at your affinity, probably can get pretty good at a second area, generally pretty naff at a third although a few luck out...I'd guess that regardless of it being 'possible,' since chakra affinity seems highly genetic, by the four almost anyone is probably going to be down to genin/cadet stuff.
Yeah, I'd agree with it being a diminishing return. But that still does not completely negate the idea that a ninja can never use elemental jutsu they have no affinity for.
The mere fact that a ninja can master an element that he/she has no genetic affinity for, implies that they could have instead picked an entirely different element, and mastered it instead of the one they chose; means that no element is technically out of their reach.
It probably gets difficult for them once they are older and they're used to creating one/two/three elements. Getting in a fourth/fifth one is nearly impossible, but easy low-level jutsu should still be within their reach since they know how to mould chakra.
And I doubt there's a (genetic) relationship that determines which element outside of their affinity a ninja would have an easier time mastering. Fire is not related to Lightning (Sasuke), but Water trumps Fire (Itachi).
Originally posted by Q99
Genin/chunin level? Cadet level, more like. Most of the people they're having do it are genin, and most of them don't have any nature release jutsu of any power.
Is this stated somewhere?
Also take note of the fact that all of these ninja had to first learn the proper sequence of seals. Seals aid in moulding chakra.
Originally posted by Q99
Even chunin and jonin, won't have the skills in an element they haven't trained for, and some S-class ninja only have chunin level stuff in their second element (Kisame, for example, only has the earth-swim jutsu and that's it).This is a very crappy jutsu amplified thousands of times over.
Yes.
Well yeah, that is what Shikamaru wanted. Using quantity over quality.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Those happen to be my two cents, as well. It is possible, if a person had a long enough life-span, to have master-level elemental jutsus of all 5 affinities. Naruto could possibly pull that off with his shadow clone training.
Which is probably why Orochimaru wants to live forever, and a Sharingan. He knows it's impossible to master 5 elements within a natural lifetime. You need aids.
Also, my 2 cents are worth more than your 2 cents. biscuits