The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by Astner
No one's saying that conversations necessarily have to be bad, what they're pointing out is that the dialogue is bad.

Considering most of the comments seem to be dismissing talk no jutsu more than anything they actually said in the chapter it would appear that the talking in and of itself is the problem.

Mind there are some dialogue choices to poke fun at. Namely Naruto "forgiving" the man who killed his family. Of course since Naruto actually says Obito has to face punishment for being such a pussy that isn't an argument that could be made well.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't see why that particularly matters.

Not sure if the pedophilia undertones are intentional with Obito's character.

shut up

I didn't think it was horrible. I wish they would have saved the talking for this moment and not screwed us out of the fight though.

I'm still hurting from never seeing Kakashi's rampage and the incredibly gay Uchiha brothers vs Kabuto. This just about through me overboard.

Originally posted by Damborgson
I didn't think it was horrible. I wish they would have saved the talking for this moment and not screwed us out of the fight though.

I'm still hurting from never seeing Kakashi's rampage and the incredibly gay Uchiha brothers vs Kabuto. This just about through me overboard.

Agreed. 👆

Yeah the Kabuto fight is still way worse. That was such an asspull an it ruined what could have been an amazing fight.

How likely is it that we're gonna see Izanami anytime soon?

Naruto's most feared jutsu has come out again, but will it be enough to stop the almighty Sage of the Six Paths part 2?

Originally posted by Astner
No one's saying that conversations necessarily have to be bad, what they're pointing out is that the dialogue is bad.

Can you give an example?

Also, is it the content, or the word choice? Because it might be the specific translation that's at fault- I have seen people at other forums go, "Wow, now I can actually believe Naruto as Hokage," based on this one, but they could be reading a different version than you. There's two main translators and one of 'em is significantly worse than the other IMO.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
This arc is getting dragged on for way too long. It's been 2 years since Obito was revealed to be the Tobi. And pretty much everyone was kind of expecting Naruto to successfully give the Talk No Jutsu, so I was thinking that Kishimoto would pull off something not so predictable, but nope. That just disappointed the hell out of me when I read it, even more-so than the whole thing with Nagato during Pein's invasion.

See, I don't feel this is a reasonably complaint. It is a major theme of the series. You may want it to be something else, but this was set up for literally years.

If it was just resolved in a fight, that'd be bad writing because it'd be counter-theme and discarding what's been built up.

There are many legitimate complains one can have, but "I wish it was a different type of story," says very little about the quality of a story, and disliking a story for not suddenly changing type 80% of the way through is more a problem with your expectations than anything else.

Like it or not, Obito was a bad villain who was only motivated to follow Madara's plans because of his childhood crush dying.

Because circumstances were so bad his best friend had to kill the person he was in love with while his 'invincible' teacher was no-where to be seen.

Or in other words, because he saw a world that was entirely too messed up. And then he observed stuff like Pain and the first Akatsuki, and things were just as messed up there, and hearing Madara's story...

He has pretty legit reason to consider the world extremely messed up. Namely, it really is.

but they're not nearly as good as, say, Berserk.

Berserk is an entirely different genre.

Originally posted by Q99
See, I don't feel this is a reasonably complaint. It is a major theme of the series. You may want it to be something else, but this was set up for literally years.

It's somewhat of a valid complain if you consider Naruto used to be better than this, and now it has been reduced to this. That said, considering how low some parts of the manga have been soaring in the last few years, I think it's entirely acceptable to see this kind of outcome.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it has "nothing to do" with the quality of the story though.

Yeah Naruto never used to talk no jutsu people to his side at the last minute. Everyone in Part 1 was too cool for that.

Originally posted by Q99
Berserk is an entirely different genre.

...and a much better manga and much better at story telling and much better at tragedy and much more interesting and much more mature.

313

Originally posted by Bentley
It's somewhat of a valid complain if you consider Naruto used to be better than this, and now it has been reduced to this. That said, considering how low some parts of the manga have been soaring in the last few years, I think it's entirely acceptable to see this kind of outcome.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it has "nothing to do" with the quality of the story though.

Expand on what you mean, here. What do you mean "used to be better than this"? Just to be clear of my intentions, I am not asking so I can argue with you, I am asking because I am interested in a more verbose and descriptive opinion on this particular topic. I promise not to argue or anything like that. I just really really want you to flesh out your point. Maybe you'll convince me to come to "your side."

Originally posted by dadudemon
...and a much better manga and much better at story telling and much better at tragedy and much more interesting and much more mature.

More mature? More tragic? Of course, it's a different genre aimed at an entirely different demographic.

And conversely, Naruto is a much more fun manga, because 'fun' isn't Berserk's point.

You're still very much talking apples and oranges here. They aren't even aimed in the same direction.

<-Didn't like Berserk.

<-Likes Naruto

Which is not to say I don't like mature gruesome things. Just didn't care for Berserk. Mind you I can appreciate the significance of Berserk.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Yeah Naruto never used to talk no jutsu people to his side at the last minute. Everyone in Part 1 was too cool for that.

Right. There have been an ongoing theme about the redemption of some antagonists such as Zabuza and Haku, to Neji to Gaara and the sand siblings and so on.

Talk no jutsu occurred during or after truly epic fights in part one. The philosophical differences were combated after some great fight scenes. And even then, it's not a sudden "Holy shit you're right, wtf am I doing let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya!!!" it's a change that takes time.

It seems more real and less forced in part one than the 3 second change of heart. Obito has spent like a couple decades trying to genjutsu the world and now in a single chapter he may have regrets based on a talk with Naruto? Gaara's simple apology to Temari was a lot more emotionally impactful then this chapter.

Originally posted by Based

It seems more real and less forced in part one than the 3 second change of heart. Obito has spent like a couple decades trying to genjutsu the world and now in a single chapter he may have regrets based on a talk with Naruto? Gaara's simple apology to Temari was a lot more emotionally impactful then this chapter.

I think you've got that backwards, this is anything but a three second change of heart... if a change of heart is even what it is. This is obviously not the dramatic conclusion itself, but the set up question to the conclusion.

Naruto's been going back and forth with Obito for a long time now, there has been far more development put into this one than any prior one. He's engaged Obito in not just one but multiple epic battles, and spent a lot of effort trying to find out what his deal is. Obito-as-Tobi has had an interest in Naruto at *least* as far back as when Yamato temporarily tied him up around the time of the second Sasuke confrontation (back when Sakura was making her mistake).

If you've just picked this chapter up suddenly, after reading only the last one or two, sure, it may come out of no-where, but this is an extremely set up conversation. Not even just on the them-talking-to-each-other side, but also in Naruto gradually gaining the maturity in order to present a good argument.

Originally posted by Q99
More mature? More tragic? Of course, it's a different genre aimed at an entirely different demographic.

And conversely, Naruto is a much more fun manga, because 'fun' isn't Berserk's point.

You're still very much talking apples and oranges here. They aren't even aimed in the same direction.

I do not disagree that they are different mangas aimed at different age demographics.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
<-Didn't like Berserk.

<-Likes Naruto

Which is not to say I don't like mature gruesome things. Just didn't care for Berserk. Mind you I can appreciate the significance of Berserk.

You're one cool mother****er so you have to have at least one flaw. uhuh

Originally posted by Based
Right. There have been an ongoing theme about the redemption of some antagonists such as Zabuza and Haku, to Neji to Gaara and the sand siblings and so on.

Talk no jutsu occurred during or after truly epic fights in part one. The philosophical differences were combated after some great fight scenes. And even then, it's not a sudden "Holy shit you're right, wtf am I doing let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya!!!" it's a change that takes time.

It seems more real and less forced in part one than the 3 second change of heart. Obito has spent like a couple decades trying to genjutsu the world and now in a single chapter he may have regrets based on a talk with Naruto? Gaara's simple apology to Temari was a lot more emotionally impactful then this chapter.

I...was being sarcastic.

Gaara's change, as sweet and nice as it was, did happen after 3 seconds lol. Naruto has had to put way more work into fixing Obito than Gaara.

Actually this might make for something interesting the more I think on it. Rate Naruto's talk no jutsu's from most tolerable to least.

Lets...see to answer Aura's question I would rank the talk no justu in the following from most tolerable to least.

1. Zabuza
2. Neji
3. Kurama...he did have to fight him first
4. Gaara
5. Tsunade...kind of
6. Obito(ongoing)
7. Nagato(this shit almost ruined an entire arc)

feel free to disagre

Only the seccessful ones, from most tolerable to least.

1. Kurama
2. Zabuza
3. Gaara
4. Neji
5. Itachi
6. Sai
7. Chiyo
8. Konan
9. Nagato (it did run the entire arc for me. DB style bs where everything the villain did had pretty much no lasting consequence)
10. Obito

Originally posted by Q99
I think you've got that backwards, this is anything but a three second change of heart... if a change of heart is even what it is. This is obviously not the dramatic conclusion itself, but the set up question to the conclusion.

Naruto's been going back and forth with Obito for a long time now, there has been far more development put into this one than any prior one. He's engaged Obito in not just one but multiple epic battles, and spent a lot of effort trying to find out what his deal is. Obito-as-Tobi has had an interest in Naruto at *least* as far back as when Yamato temporarily tied him up around the time of the second Sasuke confrontation (back when Sakura was making her mistake).

If you've just picked this chapter up suddenly, after reading only the last one or two, sure, it may come out of no-where, but this is an extremely set up conversation. Not even just on the them-talking-to-each-other side, but also in Naruto gradually gaining the maturity in order to present a good argument.

Obito's been being set up for this since his reveal.

(I was mostly just looking for an excuse to bust out that sweet Asami pic btw)

Yeah, pretty much everybody knew it was inevitable soon as Obito was revealed.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Obito's been being set up for this since his reveal.

(I was mostly just looking for an excuse to bust out that sweet Asami pic btw)

That is an excellent use of that picture, though: ain't no shame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!