Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I choose to see it as their chakra being reincarnated, not the dudes themselves. Sasuke is notably different from Madara, and Hagoromo notes Naruto's unique qualities that his predecessors did not have.
Indeed. And that's probably also why Hashirama was the stronger from the start rather than having to catch up like the original or Naruto did.
Not completely pointless, we did find out that Kagura had a Byakugan and that Hagoromo's brother disappeared into obscurity just as quickly as he came: what was the point of mentioning the Sage's brother again? Also finding out that the Sage was talking to Sasuke too was pretty neat.
So not unnecessary but really poorly placed in the plot.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Not completely pointless, we did find out that Kagura had a Byakugan and that Hagoromo's brother disappeared into obscurity just as quickly as he came: what was the point of mentioning the Sage's brother again? Also finding out that the Sage was talking to Sasuke too was pretty neat.
Yea, I find this stuff pretty interesting.
Kagura being the most-power is surprising, but her having the Byakugan gives me a pretty clear idea of the Sage's brother's role- he'd be the predecessor of the Hyuga!
Sage- Senju and Uchiha, inheriting body and sharingan respectively
Sage bro- Hyuga, inheriting byakugan.
So not unnecessary but really poorly placed in the plot.
It's like the end-of-part-1 fight, so many flashbacks!
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Not completely pointless, we did find out that Kagura had a Byakugan and that Hagoromo's brother disappeared into obscurity just as quickly as he came: what was the point of mentioning the Sage's brother again? Also finding out that the Sage was talking to Sasuke too was pretty neat.So not unnecessary but really poorly placed in the plot.
Not knowing any of this wouldn't have hurt the manga in the less, this is all background story forced into the plot. I felt that Harishama's presence in the manga was kind of unrelated with everything, but I told myself that Madara was the main villain, so it was sort-of acceptable. This in the other hand, cannot be justified.
This is just information, not developpement. Neither Sasuke nor Naruto are winning anything from discussing with "guy from the past". At best the flashback falls back in the world-building category, but not in any meaningful, interesting way, things almost become cheaper after they are explained through the reincarnation angle.
It's unnecessary and it almost hurts the overall plot. Misplacedness is just a part of the problem. Kishi is too enamored with his backstory to drop it when it's healthy.
Which is ridiculous, because he's more than happy to let the same 5 idiots have a slap-fight for over a 100 chapters, yet the guy who is literally about to die and is performing his magnum opus can't be allowed to exit stage left uninterrupted.
This bullshit with the Sage could have been introduced when Kakashi was spamming kamui for the 8000th time. And I call it bullshit because I agree with Bentley that this "You are the One" speech doesn't really serve any function toward progressing the story beyond preventing claims of an asspull later when Naruto Heart of the Cards Machinas Madara to death with some chosen one plot device shenanigans. That's it, though. Neither Naruto nor Sasuke have any real character development left to do, so the only thing this knowledge is going to do is unlock their Jesus-Power.
Meanwhile, this Chosen One nonsense is being juxtaposed with the God of Hard-Work and Humble Origins sacrificing himself to ultimately achieve nothing, since he's fighting someone who can only be beaten by Jesus-Power.
Meh.
I still say this chapter was better than last week whereas here he have something that's kind of interesting to know while last week just told us stuff we could've guessed already. With that said that still doesn't excuse Kishi for cutting out Gai's fight so "Aang can talk to Roku".
I know the anime has had some subpar animation quality in recent years but I hope that whenever it gets to this part they can dedicate an episode to Gai beating up Madara.
Originally posted by Tzeentchbasically
this Chosen One nonsense is being juxtaposed with the God of Hard-Work and Humble Origins sacrificing himself to ultimately achieve nothing, since he's fighting someone who can only be beaten by Jesus-Power.Meh.
gai's imminant death seems like a complete waste at this point
#nejiwasright
Originally posted by psycho gundam
basicallygai's imminant death seems like a complete waste at this point
#nejiwasright
Si. The characters are aware that it will be a waste though and are merely doing what they can do succeed in whatever way possible.
From a narrative perspective it would be ludicrous for Guy to defeat Madara so no one, not even the 8 year olds reading the manga, will be surprised when he loses. And trust me when I say it was the same for Lee losing in the Chunin Exams.
Now would it have been better to give Guy a new opponent so this wouldn't be so obvious an outcome? Perhaps. But then Guy is sacrificing himself against a lackey since Kishi wouldn't, rightly, allow Guy to kill a big name like say Obito.
As it stands I'm fine with the outcome since it means a human like Guy can compete with a veritable god and do better than any of the Kage, the Bijuu, or even the Chosen One pre-Obito's help.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Si. The characters are aware that it will be a waste though and are merely doing what they can do succeed in whatever way possible.From a narrative perspective it would be ludicrous for Guy to defeat Madara so no one, not even the 8 year olds reading the manga, will be surprised when he loses. And trust me when I say it was the same for Lee losing in the Chunin Exams.
Now would it have been better to give Guy a new opponent so this wouldn't be so obvious an outcome? Perhaps. But then Guy is sacrificing himself against a lackey since Kishi wouldn't, rightly, allow Guy to kill a big name like say Obito.
As it stands I'm fine with the outcome since it means a human like Guy can compete with a veritable god and do better than any of the Kage, the Bijuu, or even the Chosen One pre-Obito's help.
Well I for one am still pretty pissed about what's happening not only because of the obvious, but because we actually missed part of Gai's blaze of glory so that "De Chosen 1(or two)" could talk about stuff that everyone here could've pretty much guessed.
It would be ridiculous it Gai actually won but at least Lee got to live through his encounter. Gai doesn't appear to have that luxury. Also he didn't have to beat a big name but couldn't Kishi had him at least beat up a biju or punch or try to take on the Juubi in vain: the effect would be the same though it would be slightly less of a waste than it is here.
Like I said it would've been better if we actually saw Gai beat up said veritable god.
Originally posted by Q99
At the same time, I think Kishi feels that nonstop action for too long will reduce the impact, so he puts in these breaks.
This has been a long-standing point of yours and I tend to agree with you, here.
I always enjoy flashbacks that answer the unanswered questions and resolve plotholes.
Even if a flasback served no purpose, at all, and was just some slap-stick comedy, I still enjoy them. When the manga is complete, we'll all go back and read the flasbhacks and enjoy them: even the pointless ones. For a nicely written manga, like Naruto, it is the entire journey and the destination, not just the places we stop by and visit every now and again.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I'd wish Kishi would stop that pattern for just once during a big event and follow through the whole fight.For me it was the placement of the flashback rather than the content that is still upsetting me. Furthermore its stuff we've all pretty much could figure out.
Though I do not agree with you, I can definitely understand your perspective and I see your frustrations as being justified. Afterall, you're reading this to be entertained and the story seems to be going against the direction you would feel the most entertained.