Originally posted by dadudemon1. Well yeah most likely she is, but overall, she is inferior by alot.
Weakest as in how the japanese describe weak and strong in their manga and anime, yes. Strongest in terms of physcial strength, though.We know the Pein's are fast enough to to kill Jiraiya in Sage mode. To think Jiraiya is slow is to err, greatly.
I don't remember this. Where did this happen? Was it when Itachi first visited Konoha in the Manga? (Where Kakashi got the 72 hours of torture.)
No, Sasuke fully kept up with that speed. I don't remember him slacking behind at all.
Indeedily. He was a wee bit drained after taking that one down.
I would give strength to Kirabi because he took that crap from Jugo like it was nothing. I think that the Sasuke fight where Kirabi was keeping up with Sasuke was simply PIS in Sasuke's disfavor in order to keep Kirabi from looking weak to the reader in anyway shape or form.. Either that or Kirabi is indeed uber fast.
I would say that Kirabi is powerful, but not like Itachi. Itachi has something going for him that Kirabi doesn't. He's a tactical genius and just simply a genius. He basically planned out the fight with Sasuke. He was also weak before tha tfight started and he had already planned out two outcomes for the fight. (Give Sasuke his eye powers, or post-pone their fight for another day.)
Afraid is a strong term. More like Itachi had to talk his dumbass partner out of a fight with one man that would end up with all of them dying.
I disagree. I'm pretty sure we've seen the limit. I mean, what else is there? Jutsus?
True...but......can we really see anything more serious? He went full 8-tails.
2. They kinda cheap-shot him though...Which resulted in the loss of his arm, not to mention all the bodies ganged up on him and surrounded him.
3. Yeah, Kakashi remarked about not seeing him using his jutsus and shit or something.
4. Well I put it like that because Itachi was not trying to kill Sasuke, so I am giving Itachi the benefit of the doubt.
5. Yeah, he remarked he was "a bit tired" I believe. Still impressive, considering Orochimaru who was only getting weakened near the end of the fight couldn't do shit to Four Tailed Naruto.
6. Why would it be PIS? Kirabi has had no previous speed feats but that one, and he was shown to be able to overwhelm Sasuke with ease. And did so with a sword style which should not only be physically impossible, but even if you could do it your speed should be greatly hindered.
7. I can agree with that, and based on what we have seen Itachi is definately more versatile. But Kirabi has never been in a fight where he had to be serious.
8. Which was also debunked.
9. ...Yeah. In his human form, we haven't seen shit, and all he did in his Eight Tailed Form was fire a blast of deathly doom.
10. I am mostly referring to human.
Oh, and not all jutsus require a hand sign, take the substitution jutsu, no hand signs, and what Kirabi did was somewhat similar.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. Well yeah most likely she is, but overall, she is inferior by alot.
I agree that she is weak sauce for a hokage. But, she saved most to almost all of the Konoha villagers, something no other Hokage could have done if Pain attacked...except for the 4th (because of his space time jutsu.) The 4th probably could have defeated Pein before he started his havoc.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
2. They kinda cheap-shot him though...Which resulted in the loss of his arm, not to mention all the bodies ganged up on him and surrounded him.
I agree. It was kind of lame that the writer had Jiraiya die like that.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
3. Yeah, Kakashi remarked about not seeing him using his jutsus and shit or something.
Okay. I see what you're talking about now. That's because Itachi uses just a finger twitch instead of hand signs. It wasn't because Itachi was that much faster than Kakashi. Kakashi just didn't notice, even with Sharingan, that that is how Itachi was activating hit Genjutsu.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
4. Well I put it like that because Itachi was not trying to kill Sasuke, so I am giving Itachi the benefit of the doubt.
Itachi did go all out. He used his most uber moves. He went so far that he killed himself. How is that not going all out? I mean, really, what could he have done anymore to have defeated Sasuke?
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
5. Yeah, he remarked he was "a bit tired" I believe. Still impressive, considering Orochimaru who was only getting weakened near the end of the fight couldn't do shit to Four Tailed Naruto.
I agree. However, I would say that four tails Naruto is stronger than the fully released four tails Jinchurriki.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
6. Why would it be PIS? Kirabi has had no previous speed feats but that one, and he was shown to be able to overwhelm Sasuke with ease. And did so with a sword style which should not only be physically impossible, but even if you could do it your speed should be greatly hindered.
Sasuke practically "flash stepped" to Naruto when Sakura and Naruto met him for the first time post time skip. That's just one of many reasons that I don't care to go on about.
Also, my post contained something else that it looks like you missed.
I also said, "Either that or Kirabi is indeed uber fast."
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
7. I can agree with that, and based on what we have seen Itachi is definately more versatile. But Kirabi has never been in a fight where he had to be serious.
hmm
K. I'll give you that. We really haven't seen Kirabi go all out in his regular human form.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
8. Which was also debunked.
You're right. It's not in the Manga. Only in the anime. I think?
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
9. ...Yeah. In his human form, we haven't seen shit, and all he did in his Eight Tailed Form was fire a blast of deathly doom..
But...I mean, really...what do the demons do other than just being really big and fire huge blasts of energy?
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
10. I am mostly referring to human.
Cool.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Oh, and not all jutsus require a hand sign, take the substitution jutsu, no hand signs, and what Kirabi did was somewhat similar.
But...that...wasn't a substitution jutsu. It's possible that it WAS a jutsu and he is so skilled that he figured out to just flick his fingers like Itachi.
Doubtful.
Originally posted by dadudemon1. I would wager that the 1st could possibly beat Pain as well, not as fast as the Fourth, but meh. And prolly the Third.
I agree that she is weak sauce for a hokage. But, she saved most to almost all of the Konoha villagers, something no other Hokage could have done if Pain attacked...except for the 4th (because of his space time jutsu.) The 4th probably could have defeated Pein before he started his havoc.I agree. It was kind of lame that the writer had Jiraiya die like that.
Okay. I see what you're talking about now. That's because Itachi uses just a finger twitch instead of hand signs. It wasn't because Itachi was that much faster than Kakashi. Kakashi just didn't notice, even with Sharingan, that that is how Itachi was activating hit Genjutsu.
Itachi did go all out. He used his most uber moves. He went so far that he killed himself. How is that not going all out? I mean, really, what could he have done anymore to have defeated Sasuke?
I agree. However, I would say that four tails Naruto is stronger than the fully released four tails Jinchurriki.
Sasuke practically "flash stepped" to Naruto when Sakura and Naruto met him for the first time post time skip. That's just one of many reasons that I don't care to go on about.
Also, my post contained something else that it looks like you missed.
I also said, "Either that or Kirabi is indeed uber fast."
hmm
K. I'll give you that. We really haven't seen Kirabi go all out in his regular human form.
You're right. It's not in the Manga. Only in the anime. I think?
But...I mean, really...what do the demons do other than just being really big and fire huge blasts of energy?
Cool.
But...that...wasn't a substitution jutsu. It's possible that it WAS a jutsu and he is so skilled that he figured out to just flick his fingers like Itachi.
Doubtful.
2. Yeah.
3. Not just that, but even other jutsus such as the water jutsus he used. He also was considerably faster in movement than Kakashi.
4. Tried to actually kill Sasuke? He not once attempted to really kill him, not to mention he was weakened from disease.
5. Well all we know about Four Tailed Host is that it was able to use multiple chakra type fusions(like Haku's ability to make ice), which is considered a rare and powerful ability.
6. ...He was only 50 feet away at best. Something that in Naruto is not so uncommon. And I saw it, just ignored it, but that's what I think, there can always be a character better at something, I mean, Madara travels at the speed of light. 😐
7. Yae
8. Yeah, I believe so. Itachi just considered it to be unnecessary.
9. Truth.
10. Not all jutsus require a hand-sign at all, hell, Kakashi can use Chidori without a hand sign now, in fact, the more skilled the ninja, the less required hand signs, for example, it took 42 hand signs for Kakashi and Zabuza to use the Water Dragon Jutsu, for the Second Hokage, it takes two.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. I would wager that the 1st could possibly beat Pain as well, not as fast as the Fourth, but meh. And prolly the Third.
I'm not sure about the first. I don't know enough about him.
Maye the third in his prime. He is..just...bad ass.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
3. Not just that, but even other jutsus such as the water jutsus he used. He also was considerably faster in movement than Kakashi.
Wait...wut?
Wasn't that just "superior" sharingan play? Also, wasn't that an anime only thing?
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
4. Tried to actually kill Sasuke? He not once attempted to really kill him, not to mention he was weakened from disease.
I can agree that he didn't go all out at trying to kill Sasuke, but he certainly tried the entire fight to kill him.
So, tell me how Amaterasu wasn't an intention to kill?
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/16-17/
I honestly can't think of a better way to "one-shot" someone.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
5. Well all we know about Four Tailed Host is that it was able to use multiple chakra type fusions(like Haku's ability to make ice), which is considered a rare and powerful ability.
Indeed.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
6. ...He was only 50 feet away at best. Something that in Naruto is not so uncommon. And I saw it, just ignored it, but that's what I think, there can always be a character better at something, I mean, Madara travels at the speed of light. 😐
Indeed.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
10. Not all jutsus require a hand-sign at all, hell, Kakashi can use Chidori without a hand sign now, in fact, the more skilled the ninja, the less required hand signs, for example, it took 42 hand signs for Kakashi and Zabuza to use the Water Dragon Jutsu, for the Second Hokage, it takes two.
Really? For real?
Are you sure it isn't just a mistake? Is it confirmed that the 3rd was so awesome that he could reduce it down to practically nothing or is that just a plot hole the writer wrote himself into?
If that's true, then that adds a whole new dimension to Naruto that I didn't know about before. This makes it "cooler" for me. Seriously.
Originally posted by dadudemon1. Well he did defeat Madara and the Kyuubi, when Madara was in his prime. Madara currently, even though he is not what he once was, is still a very powerful ninja.
I'm not sure about the first. I don't know enough about him.Maye the third in his prime. He is..just...bad ass.
Wait...wut?
Wasn't that just "superior" sharingan play? Also, wasn't that an anime only thing?
I can agree that he didn't go all out at trying to kill Sasuke, but he certainly tried the entire fight to kill him.
So, tell me how Amaterasu wasn't an intention to kill?
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/16-17/
I honestly can't think of a better way to "one-shot" someone.
Indeed.
Indeed.
Really? For real?
Are you sure it isn't just a mistake? Is it confirmed that the 3rd was so awesome that he could reduce it down to practically nothing or is that just a plot hole the writer wrote himself into?
If that's true, then that adds a whole new dimension to Naruto that I didn't know about before. This makes it "cooler" for me. Seriously.
Well this is fairly speculated, he was able to fare very well against Oro and his cheapo dead summoning powers, and Enma, t3h monkey, remarked that even then his current state was miserable compared to his prime.
2. Might have been anime only. Can't remember. And Sharingan does not make you faster.
3. Because you have control over Amaterasu's flames and their intensity, Itachi planned the fight like he said, he planned to lose.
4. Nope, Chidori normally requires hand seals, though Kakashi no longer needs to use them, and the Water Dragon Jutsu apparently has been shortened to a mere four hand seals apparently. And I said the Second foo!
Also, look at Madara, what he does is essentially the same thing as Yondaime in terms of movement, only Madara has mastered time/space jutsus to a level where he no longer needs hand signs.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. Well he did defeat Madara and the Kyuubi, when Madara was in his prime. Madara currently, even though he is not what he once was, is still a very powerful ninja.Well this is fairly speculated, he was able to fare very well against Oro and his cheapo dead summoning powers, and Enma, t3h monkey, remarked that even then his current state was miserable compared to his prime.
I know this...but, do we really know enough about his powers? We know he could do the wood thing. Probably much better than...I forget his name, that one guy who gives the "I am Satan" stare to Naruto when he won't listen.
That's a good point, though. But, he could control the Bijuu...so wasn't it cheating?
What powers does he have other than the wood jutsu? I don't think we know enough. We do know the third pretty well, though.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
2. Might have been anime only. Can't remember. And Sharingan does not make you faster.
I wasn't referring to being faster or slower. I was literally referring to Itatchi's Sharingan being more advanced/superior to Kakashi's.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
3. Because you have control over Amaterasu's flames and their intensity, Itachi planned the fight like he said, he planned to lose.
It looks pretty damned itense everytime it's used. He also aimed it right at Sasuke. He also didn't "turn" it off like Sasuke did. So that is a "not applicable" on all your points.
Itachi didin't plan to lose. He predicted two outcomes. Beat Sasuke and possibly kill him, or see that his brother was strong enough and give his little brother those eye techniques.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
4. Nope, Chidori normally requires hand seals, though Kakashi no longer needs to use them, and the Water Dragon Jutsu apparently has been shortened to a mere four hand seals apparently.
But is this just bad/lazy writing or is it cannon? In other words, is it offical that the more powerful the user, the less hand seals are required?
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Also, look at Madara, what he does is essentially the same thing as Yondaime in terms of movement, only Madara has mastered time/space jutsus to a level where he no longer needs hand signs.
One is an eye techinque, the other is a jutsu(trick).
Originally posted by Kento
Wait people still think Itachi was trying to kill Sasuke? After Itachi killed himself to get rid of Oro and the Cursed Mark, and gave something to Naruto in case Sasuke didn't do as planned after his death, and after he gave Sasuke all his power, and tried to keep Sasuke away from Madara?
Yes.
😐
People still do.
Originally posted by dadudemon1. Well we saw him actually fighting Madara and the Kyuubi with huge scale wood jutsus, ones that were on a scale which is greater than any Yamato has done, and was attacking the Kyuubi with them, wrapping its leg, hell, the wood jutsu if I remember right was actually bigger than Kyuubi.
I know this...but, do we really know enough about his powers? We know he could do the wood thing. Probably much better than...I forget his name, that one guy who gives the "I am Satan" stare to Naruto when he won't listen.That's a good point, though. But, he could control the Bijuu...so wasn't it cheating?
What powers does he have other than the wood jutsu? I don't think we know enough. We do know the third pretty well, though.
I wasn't referring to being faster or slower. I was literally referring to Itatchi's Sharingan being more advanced/superior to Kakashi's.
It looks pretty damned itense everytime it's used. He also aimed it right at Sasuke. He also didn't "turn" it off like Sasuke did. So that is a "not applicable" on all your points.
Itachi didin't plan to lose. He predicted two outcomes. Beat Sasuke and possibly kill him, or see that his brother was strong enough and give his little brother those eye techniques.
But is this just bad/lazy writing or is it cannon? In other words, is it offical that the more powerful the user, the less hand seals are required?
One is an eye techinque, the other is a jutsu(trick).
Well so could Madara, so really I am not sure what to say about this.
You are right, we don't know enough, the First's power is fairly obscure, hence why I said he possibly could do this.
2. I thought that their basic Sharingan abilities were about equal at that point?
3. You can control the flames, Amaterasu is not like an on/off switch.
...I'm sorry, but the idea that Itachi was trying to kill him is stupid. As revealed by Madara, EVERYTHING Itachi has done up to this point has been for the sake of Sasuke, his brother, he valued his brother's life above all else, the rest of his clan, his whole village. That's why he let Sasuke live. The reason he set Sasuke's eyes to use Amaterasu if he saw Madara's Sharingan was because he wanted to keep Sasuke from Madara, to protect him. This is not even arguable, it is not opinion, it is fact.
4. Well considering Itachi can do Genjutsus by pointing...And I am pretty sure it was stated that after his stomp from Itachi, Kakashi trained his hand sign speed to be better equipped to face Itachi next time they fought.
5. So?
Originally posted by King KandyAnd Itachi's talk with Naruto. And Itachi giving Sasuke all his powers, and Zetsu saying Itachi isn't doing his best. Itachi could have killed him so many times during that encounter had he wanted to yet didn't.
Because pretty much we only have Madara's word. There was probably a reason Itachi didn't want Sasuke around Madara.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
2. I thought that their basic Sharingan abilities were about equal at that point?
No. Itachi can do that one weird Genjutsu thing with the eyes. Remember when Itachi and Sasuke kept going, "AHA! It is I who got you." "AHA! No no, it is I who got YOU!" "AHA! I was just tricking you the first time into thinking that I thought I had you so that I could get you after you thought you got me because I thought I had gotten you. AHA!"
Yeah, that eye technique is not something Kakashi can do, which is why he was pwned by Itachi for "72 hours".
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
3. You can control the flames, Amaterasu is not like an on/off switch....I'm sorry, but the idea that Itachi was trying to kill him is stupid. As revealed by Madara, EVERYTHING Itachi has done up to this point has been for the sake of Sasuke, his brother, he valued his brother's life above all else, the rest of his clan, his whole village. That's why he let Sasuke live. The reason he set Sasuke's eyes to use Amaterasu if he saw Madara's Sharingan was because he wanted to keep Sasuke from Madara, to protect him. This is not even arguable, it is not opinion, it is fact.
See my above post to Kento pants on that.
And, you're basing that on Madara's words to Sasuke, which could turn out to be a lie.
Doesn't it seem likely that Madara told Sasuke that to get Sasuke all excited so he would go back and destroy Konoha for him?
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
4. Well considering Itachi can do Genjutsus by pointing...And I am pretty sure it was stated that after his stomp from Itachi, Kakashi trained his hand sign speed to be better equipped to face Itachi next time they fought.
I don't remember that.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
5. So?
So? You don't recognize the difference?
That means that one is a blood line limit, the other was discovered and employed through hard work.
Originally posted by Kento
And Itachi's talk with Naruto. And Itachi giving Sasuke all his powers, and Zetsu saying Itachi isn't doing his best. Itachi could have killed him so many times during that encounter had he wanted to yet didn't.
Speaking of Zetsu, why the hell didn't he try to help Itachi? I literally can't think of any reason for why he let Itachi die and Sasuke to get away (since he didn't know whatever it was Itachi had planned.)
Originally posted by King KandyIf he was trying to kill Sasuke to take his eyes..why would he do what he did with Naruto? Madara has nothing to do with it. If Itachi had planned on taking his eyes..then why didn't he just do it at anytime since Sasuke didn't have MS. Then there is the fact that it's suppose to be a MS transplant that awakens the EMS..which against Sasuke doesn't have so taking his eyes would be pointless anyway. Itachi's not killing his brother ever when he could have countless times before and during that battle, Sasuke's memory he forgot when his sharingan was 'first' awakened, and the Naruto thing pretty much make Madara's story more truth than anything. There isn't anything to disprove Madara's story about Itachi....the rest of his story I don't fully buy though.
No duh Itachi wasn't doing his best. The guy was sick and dying. Anyway, there's no question he wasn't going for the kill... even if you don't believe Madara, he still needed Sasuke to be alive to get his eyes. The real question is whether he intended to lose the fight.Speaking of Zetsu, why the hell didn't he try to help Itachi? I literally can't think of any reason for why he let Itachi die and Sasuke to get away (since he didn't know whatever it was Itachi had planned.)
Maybe Zetsu just isn't a fighter..or maybe Madara told him not to interfere since Madara obviously knew about it.