Originally posted by King Kandy
Five-minute Izanagi? It's the dimensional warp of Madara's that lasts five minutes, he only used Izanagi long enough to survive the explosions, at the cost of an eye.
The explosions were 10 minutes long. He can only stay intangible for 5 minutes. For the other 5 minutes, he was vulnerable.
When Izanagi is activated, they're immune to damage. It had to last at least 5 minutes for Madara to survive the explosions. I say 'at least' since Madara seems to remove the part of his mask covering the second Sharingan long before the 5 minute limit has hit.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
He has more strings though!Indeed, love Kirin. Too bad its appearance got out haxxed by another technique, that is not as kewl. Could Kamui protect against Kirin, or based on hax? It might be able to protect against Kirin, but that's assuming Kakashi is as fast as Itachi was when using Susano'o. Kamui is one of the most hax moves in the series.
Still, I think Izanagi has become the most haxxed more ever in the Naruto verse.
Nothing tops Double Lariat though. Nothing!!!
Not invisible strings though. 131
I agree.
Yeah, it is pretty hax. I think it is only CIS that stops him from just using Kamui on a person's head.
He suffers pretty badly from each use of Kamui though.
Izanagi is undoubtedly the most hax move in the series. Susano'o w/ Yata Shield & Totsuka Sword could probably be about as hax as Izanagi though.
Afternoon Tiger, Great Missile Shark Technique (which would suck out the chakra from Raikage's & Killerbee's cloaks, provided the technique was already out), controlled Kyuubi chakra mode & Susano'o are all more hax. estahuh
Originally posted by Q99
Her knowledge of most Akatsuki is going to be pretty significant, being high in the command structure.
Still wouldn't be nearly as much as her knowledge of Madara. Itachi is the only one I think Konan would have significant knowledge about, seeing as Madara knew so much about Itachi.
The other members of Akatsuki rarely met up, and when they did, it was only to seal a Bijuu. I also doubt they revealed their most powerful techs to any other member.
Originally posted by NemeBro
2. Kisame. 🙂
2. You mean the guy that pwned Kirabi and survived Afternoon Tiger?
The Chasm technique is her only significant shot at winning against Kisame with Samehada. I doubt she'd get a chance to use it, given how chakra intensive it seems to be, and what Kisame specializes in.
Originally posted by NemeBro
And do what?People like to forget that Hidan has no advanced healing, just immortality, kind of a shitty deal.
He does have some I think. Stuff like burns or being stabbed in the chest do squat to him and don't have lasting effect. Even being hit by Kakuzu's blasts doesn't really injure him.
Just not to the point where missing limbs and such aren't a problem.
marwash22
List the Kage level ninja she can defeat.List the Kage level ninja he can defeat.
Lesse, there's only a few of the Akatsuki that I think she couldn't beat a reasonable chunk of the time. Deidara, Sasori, Hidan, all should have trouble with chasm levels of paper even if it's just using paper-blades (and even without the billions of tags, exploding clones and such are still a threat). I think she could beat Gai.
Gai can beat Kakashi pretty often 🙂 Hebi Sasuke. And I think he could take Gaara. Deidara if he got close in or Afternoon Tiger'd him off his bird or dragon.
Not saying that these ninja couldn't beat them reasonably often too, these aren't one-sided, but a significant proportion of wins goes to those two.
I'm be hard pressed to think of many/any non-Kage level fighters who'd have a good chance against either too.
Originally posted by Q99
Don't forget that against the iron sands, the only thing that kept them alive at one point was the sacrifice of the chakra-shield puppets, and then against the hundred puppets the fact Chiyo had 10 of her own (an S-class technique) helped a ton, 8-to-1 odds for them (in which neither avoid being cut), or 100:1 for a single combatant in their place.Poison gas, large smushy objects that had to be knocked out of the way to get to him, countless tiny sharp iron sand points, there was a lot to evade and between the two of them their defense is honestly quite impressive, Sakura's better at dodging than taijutsu, and the lady may be old but puppetry hardly requires the muscle of youth.
Also, Sasuke, Raikage? Sword, armbands. All metal, directly controllable by Iron Sands.
I think you're underestimating how much of a threat he'd be to them. Mostly due to the Kage puppet, and the raise thin edge the poison puts them at.
And none of the puppets or sand moved even remotely fast enough to keep up with those ultra fast ninja that I mentioned. Not even in the same league. Sasori's abilities work against just about any ninja except those that excel at speed. That's why he's so dangerous. No eye techniques would work against him, either. That's part of his dangerousness. It's just that he's glaringly weak against really fast ninja.
As for the kage ninja...that all means nothing when Sasuke can easily see the only point that is biological inside the puppet. The fight would be over in less than a second as his lightening sword would almost instantly pierce the capsule.
Also...raikage? lol...that fight would be over even faster with one swift punch, quickly destroying the entire puppet into thousands of little pieces and quickly destroying the capsule. That's before amping up to Bijuu levels.
Originally posted by amnesia
Can naruto make a shadow clone and turn it into a woman and have sex with it?
That's not sex, that's masturbation.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Taijutsu is actually a poor option. If you're packing high class ninjutsu, it's preferable to use that against Sasori than getting close to the poisoned weapons. It just so happened that Sakura and Chiyo's best bet was taijutsu.
Which neither of them excelled at. You just proved my point and agreed with me, by the way.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Gai could beat him but he might receive a scratch, making the victory hollow. Lee could not beat him. Sasuke and Itachi would beat him, though not due to superior taijutsu. They just pack hax genjutsu and ninjutsu. Kimimaro....Not sure. Poison gas could get him and Sasori need only wait until he dies anyway. Kakashi probably would not beat Sasori with just his taijutsu. He might not even win if he weren't willing to use Kamui. And Raikage could beat Sasori more than likely.
So, lemme get this straight, Guy, who is so much absurdly faster than Chiyo and Sakura, magically gets scratched when both Sakura and Chiyo almost made it out without a poison scratch? Do you see why your logic fails?
Also, no, their hax genjutsu would not work at all. No eyes and no direct contact with organic portion of the body.
Kimimaro would easily win. Sasori, with his iron sand, didn't even come close to being as powerful as pre-time skip Gaara, so there's no comparison to a kimimaro that pushed Gaara to the brink.
You're correct, Kakashi would beat Sasori with a combo of uber speed and a lightening blade to the capsule. How did you think it would go down? 😬
Originally posted by NemeBro
Raikage could beat Sasori because it's very likely his Raiton shield would simply not allow him to be pieced by any of his weapons, and he is more than fast enough to dodge any that would.Lee would have died.
Also, ddm, you are not giving Chiyo near enough credit, even as old as she was, she was a very powerful ninja.
Gai could have beaten him, probably, yeah.
Kimimaro would be fubarred lol.
Lee would have wtfpwned simply due to his speed and power.
I gave Chiyo as much credit as she deserved. She's great...but would fall to any fast taijutsu user.
Also, how would Kimimaro go down when he can produce a shield stronger than steal? How can he get poisoned if he poison doesn't reach him? Also, a sick Kimimaro (one that was so weak and debilitated that he could not move but he willed himself to move...something that surpasses anything Naruto's will of fire feats, in my opinion) was the one we saw, not the full health version that could single-handedly defeat the sound four. Also, Oro said that Kimimaro's taijutsu combined with his Shikotsumyaku (sp?) is the best taijutsu ability.
And none of the puppets or sand moved even remotely fast enough to keep up with those ultra fast ninja that I mentioned. Not even in the same league.
I disagree that higher speed is going to keep them safe though. 100 Puppets or iron sand is going to work against most fast ninja too.
Even with advantages like Chiyo specifically being able to read Sasori's movements (they used the same style after all), using puppets for defense, and Sakura having a lot of time to get used to his style herself until she could start reading it, team Chiyo/Sakura got pegged multiple times, at three separate stages during the fight (Iron Sands Needle Sphere was not avoided by Sakura, Sasori's main body got her through the chest, and the 100 puppets got both of them even with the interferance of 10 other puppets), and during the Iron Sand portion against some of the attacks they could only block with the chakra shields of The Parents puppets, dodging wasn't enough. Only once is needed.
Can the super-fast ninja get wins? Sure, mostly the strongest ones. But will they win for sure? Eh. Sasori was more than fast enough to get his normal win condition a good chunk of the time, he got like a half-dozen or so kill-shots on his opponents and they had super powerful puppets guarding them too.
Sakura and Chiyo's speed was not why they lived after all, it only took Sasori a little more effort to peg them anyway.
I gave Chiyo as much credit as she deserved. She's great...but would fall to any fast taijutsu user.
Remember those shockwave-making iron spears she blocked, the speed which she can deploy puppets is very fast.
Actually, she's not all that physically slow herself, remember the brief clash when she thought Kakashi was the White Fang.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Which neither of them excelled at. You just proved my point and agreed with me, by the way.So, lemme get this straight, Guy, who is so much absurdly faster than Chiyo and Sakura, magically gets scratched when both Sakura and Chiyo almost made it out without a poison scratch? Do you see why your logic fails?
Also, no, their hax genjutsu would not work at all. No eyes and no direct contact with organic portion of the body.
Kimimaro would easily win. Sasori, with his iron sand, didn't even come close to being as powerful as pre-time skip Gaara, so there's no comparison to a kimimaro that pushed Gaara to the brink.
You're correct, Kakashi would beat Sasori with a combo of uber speed and a lightening blade to the capsule. How did you think it would go down? 😬
Then allow me to modify my statement: Chiyo's Puppet Ninjutsu combined with Sakura's strength was their best bet. You're statement is still incorrect as both Neji and Hinata are better taijutsu users than Sakura, and neither one could beat Sasori.
Sakura was scratched because the attack covered a large area. Chiyo was scratched because of a surprise attack. Neither instance really takes their speed into account. Guy would win of course with the Gates open, but base Guy loses in my opinion.
Sasori see's a lot for a person with no eyes. 😛
Kimimaro has advantages I'll give you, but it's not impossible to kill him. Sasori does have gas that would poison him and an insane amount of numbers.
You're overrating speed I'm afraid. Kakashi still has numbers to contend with, and a chakra supply that's quite small. And again, one scratch is all it takes. 100 Puppets is a lot to dodge.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Then allow me to modify my statement: Chiyo's Puppet [b]Ninjutsu combined with Sakura's strength was their best bet. You're statement is still incorrect as both Neji and Hinata are better taijutsu users than Sakura, and neither one could beat Sasori. [/B]
I disagree. Neji could easily destroy the puppets all by himself. 🙂
How can Neji be taken down if nothing can touch him? 😉
Not to mention Neji's speed and taijutsu proficiency are every bit as good if not better than Lee's. Then there's the problem of Neji being able to see, right from the beginning, where the only organic entity is form Sasori. It's be a rather one sided fight: wouldn't be a good match-up as that's like the perfect counter to Sasori. I can't think of a more perfect counter to Sasori (minus Pain and his uber shit..and Madara.)
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Sakura was scratched because the attack covered a large area. Chiyo was scratched because of a surprise attack. Neither instance really takes their speed into account. Guy would win of course with the Gates open, but base Guy loses in my opinion.
Nah. Base guy is more than fast enough to take out Sasori. Puppet masters are really weak even the only S-class one known as Sasori.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Sasori see's a lot for a person with no eyes. 😛
Glad my wording was, "No eyes and no direct contact with organic portion of the body."
Think about it and it will set in. Nah, I'll just tell you to save you wasting both our times: "no direct contact with the organic portion of his body."
If you can prove that there is an organic line connecting every single eye to the core, go ahead. Since that's absurdly stupid to assume that...
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Kimimaro has advantages I'll give you, but it's not impossible to kill him. Sasori does have gas that would poison him and an insane amount of numbers.
So he's going to penetrate the armor with his wood puppets and metal blades before Kimi just dashes right up and stabs through everything...you know....before Sasori releases all of his puppets and gas...and everything.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
You're overrating speed I'm afraid. Kakashi still has numbers to contend with, and a chakra supply that's quite small. And again, one scratch is all it takes. 100 Puppets is a lot to dodge.
Kakashi is going to sit around while Sasori releases all of his puppets, huh? Odd. That's out of character for Kakshi. hmm
Originally posted by Q99
I disagree that higher speed is going to keep them safe though. 100 Puppets or iron sand is going to work against most fast ninja too.Even with advantages like Chiyo specifically being able to read Sasori's movements (they used the same style after all), using puppets for defense, and Sakura having a lot of time to get used to his style herself until she could start reading it, team Chiyo/Sakura got pegged multiple times, at three separate stages during the fight (Iron Sands Needle Sphere was not avoided by Sakura, Sasori's main body got her through the chest, and the 100 puppets got both of them even with the interferance of 10 other puppets), and during the Iron Sand portion against some of the attacks they could only block with the chakra shields of The Parents puppets, dodging wasn't enough. Only once is needed.
Can the super-fast ninja get wins? Sure, mostly the strongest ones. But will they win for sure? Eh. Sasori was more than fast enough to get his normal win condition a good chunk of the time, he got like a half-dozen or so kill-shots on his opponents and they had super powerful puppets guarding them too.
Sakura and Chiyo's speed was not why they lived after all, it only took Sasori a little more effort to peg them anyway.
Remember those shockwave-making iron spears she blocked, the speed which she can deploy puppets is very fast.
Actually, she's not all that physically slow herself, remember the brief clash when she thought Kakashi was the White Fang.
Pretty much everything you said is null when you consider the time Sasori takes to release his puppets. It's not instant.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Pretty much everything you said is null when you consider the time Sasori takes to release his puppets. It's not instant.
Except he starts in an armored puppet and his main puppet body is pretty fast and well armed too, and we saw Chiyo summon puppets in response to attacks very quickly (blocking mid-air kunai fast).
Most of the time he was on the offensive and had plenty of space to deploy them casually, but they're no slower than any other summon.
Also if he was facing a truly powerful foe he'd summon something major right at the start when they first meet each other and they're still at some distance. He wouldn't try and rely on Hiruko when facing a Kage or Gai.
---
Hm, you know who'd really beat him? Tsunade. Safe from poison, stabbing doesn't matter too much, pound anything he throws out of the way.
TheAuraAngel
Sakura was scratched because the attack covered a large area. Chiyo was scratched because of a surprise attack. Neither instance really takes their speed into account.
Don't forget when Sasori's main body impaled Sakura with his rope-spear at a distance, or when Chiyo got cut by the hundred puppets despite being screened by her puppets.
There was also the time Sasori wrapped Sakura with ropes while she was in the poison cloud.
The pair had a lot of defenses aside from speed in their arsenal and Sasori had a lot of area-effect attacks, so someone being faster doesn't necessarily mean they'll be able to avoid all the attacks.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I disagree. Neji could easily destroy the puppets all by himself. 🙂How can Neji be taken down if nothing can touch him? 😉
Not to mention Neji's speed and taijutsu proficiency are every bit as good if not better than Lee's. Then there's the problem of Neji being able to see, right from the beginning, where the only organic entity is form Sasori. It's be a rather one sided fight: wouldn't be a good match-up as that's like the perfect counter to Sasori. I can't think of a more perfect counter to Sasori (minus Pain and his uber shit..and Madara.)
Nah. Base guy is more than fast enough to take out Sasori. Puppet masters are really weak even the only S-class one known as Sasori.
Glad my wording was, "No eyes and no direct contact with organic portion of the body."
Think about it and it will set in. Nah, I'll just tell you to save you wasting both our times: "no direct contact with the organic portion of his body."
If you can prove that there is an organic line connecting every single eye to the core, go ahead. Since that's absurdly stupid to assume that...
So he's going to penetrate the armor with his wood puppets and metal blades before Kimi just dashes right up and stabs through everything...you know....before Sasori releases all of his puppets and gas...and everything.
Kakashi is going to sit around while Sasori releases all of his puppets, huh? Odd. That's out of character for Kakshi. hmm
Neji lacks sufficient strength feats to suggest he could even break Hiruko.
How can Gaara be hurt if he can't be touched? Oh wait, he was. Sasori could simply wail on him with a barrage of puppets until stamina gives way. Or do that in combination with the poison gas bombs.
Considering I don't believe Lee>Sasori, that's a moot point. And not right from the beginning, as again, Sasori starts the fight in Hiruko. And a more perfect counter would be Itachi/Sasuke via Susano'o.
Keep wanking the speed factor and I'll just counter with an insane amount of numbers. Sasori starts the fight in Hiruko, giving him more than enough time to see what Guy's fighting style is. Guy does destroy Hiruko though, after not too long a time.
If there was no contact at all with the organic part of his body, the Puppet Body could not move. If the eyes are not real, it means Sasori sees through chakra strings in the body. Either way, quite susceptible to genjutsu.
Hiruko exists. If Kimimaro proved such a threat from the get go, Sasori would be ready to launch the 3rd Kazekage the moment Hiruko was destroyed. Underestimating the analysis put into Naruto combat aren't we? Usually both competitors are going to analyze their opponents before a real brawl takes place.
Kakashi waiting to see what the enemy does is out of character? No. Not at all. In fact, I can't recall when Kakashi isn't analyzing his opponents before fighting them.
Originally posted by dadudemonOnly Chiyo was fast enough to briefly fight Kakashi in Taijutsu, who in all likelihood is better than Lee.
Lee would have wtfpwned simply due to his speed and power.I gave Chiyo as much credit as she deserved. She's great...but would fall to any fast taijutsu user.
Also, how would Kimimaro go down when he can produce a shield stronger than steal? How can he get poisoned if he poison doesn't reach him? Also, a sick Kimimaro (one that was so weak and debilitated that he could not move but he willed himself to move...something that surpasses anything Naruto's will of fire feats, in my opinion) was the one we saw, not the full health version that could single-handedly defeat the sound four. Also, Oro said that Kimimaro's taijutsu combined with his Shikotsumyaku (sp?) is the best taijutsu ability.
Read above. You're underrating puppet users, especially in regards to fighting Taijutsu specialists. Sakon and Ukon were the best Taijutsu fighters of the Sound Four and the fastest of them (Not counting Kim, obviously), Kankuro pwned them. Chiyo can control her puppets at a very high speed, that is the only real reason Sakura survived.
The shield does not cover his entire body to my recollection, and it takes but a scratch. The Third Kazekage puppet alone would pwn Kimimaro. Also, Kim's strength while healthy is not known. And **** what Pedomaru says, he always overrates his boytoys.
Sakura and Chiyo are the weakest duo in the Naruto verse when it comes to roundabout tatics against ninja's that specialize in actual taijutsu + ninjutsu power scaling.
Hidan and Kakuzu could defeat them
Sasuke, Suigetsu and Juugo could defeat them
Gai and Kakashi can beat them.
Naruto and Jiraya could beat them
And Q99 I do hope you know that Sakura's and Chiyo reading Sasori's movements is something all ninjas can do right. Hell reading and anticipating movements are something genins learn in the academy.
Funny because tehnically Sakura and Chiyo are the weakest duo; veternan + novice= normal ninja.
They would die against Kakuzu but Hidan is the slowest Akatsuki member so they should have some hope.
Three of the Hebi isn't really fair in a tag team match
Sakura and Chiyo do not deserve to be in their presence
Really?
Sakura had become a specialist in dodging to the point where evading attacks in heated situations was child's play. On that note she would've even got a chance to fight the puppets had it not been for Chiyo.
Originally posted by killermover
Sakura and Chiyo are the weakest duo in the Naruto verse when it comes to roundabout tatics against ninja's that specialize in actual taijutsu + ninjutsu power scaling.Hidan and Kakuzu could defeat them
Sasuke, Suigetsu and Juugo could defeat them
Gai and Kakashi can beat them.
Naruto and Jiraya could beat them
And Q99 I do hope you know that Sakura's and Chiyo reading Sasori's movements is something all ninjas can do right. Hell reading and anticipating movements are something genins learn in the academy.
Everyone you named could beat Hinata effortlessly in 1 on 1 scenario. u mad? haermm
Originally posted by killermover
Sakura and Chiyo are the weakest duo in the Naruto verse when it comes to roundabout tatics against ninja's that specialize in actual taijutsu + ninjutsu power scaling.Hidan and Kakuzu could defeat them
Sasuke, Suigetsu and Juugo could defeat them
Gai and Kakashi can beat them.
Naruto and Jiraya could beat them
And Q99 I do hope you know that Sakura's and Chiyo reading Sasori's movements is something all ninjas can do right. Hell reading and anticipating movements are something genins learn in the academy.
Hebi Sasuke would beat Chiyo & Sakura by himself (same goes for Jiraiya, Post-SM Training Naruto, Gai, Kakuzu & Kakashi). What makes you think he needs the help of Juugo or Suigetsu?
Anticipating the movement of a ninja like Sasori is not something that could be taught to and learnt by a simple Genin.
Sakura is above most other high-level ninja in the series when it comes to reading an opponent's movement and fighting style, because her fighting style depends on it.
Originally posted by killermover
Sakura and Chiyo are the weakest duo in the Naruto verse when it comes to roundabout tatics against ninja's that specialize in actual taijutsu + ninjutsu power scaling.Hidan and Kakuzu could defeat them
Sasuke, Suigetsu and Juugo could defeat them
Gai and Kakashi can beat them.
Naruto and Jiraya could beat them
And Q99 I do hope you know that Sakura's and Chiyo reading Sasori's movements is something all ninjas can do right. Hell reading and anticipating movements are something genins learn in the academy.
You realize that the 2 of them only knew each other for like a day or two, and all the other pairs knew each other and worked with them for longer than that right?
Correction: Kakuzu beats them because he is so overpowered. Hidan is beheaded quite easily.
Correction: Sasuke takes on all 4 with laughable ease. Hax powers in play again.
This pairing does win, easily. Though I'm not sure what wakka means by his statement. Chiyo probably has more credibility to her name and is more important to her village than both of them. Well, Kakashi might have more since he was nominated for Hokage but whatever. She's still powerful and influential.
Correction: Either solos. Hax powers for one, actual skill for the other.
Chiyo could read his movements because she too was a puppet master. Sakura on the other hand, was studying Sasori's fingers. Tayuya admits that it was impressive that Shikamaru figured out the weakness to her technique by doing that, and at the time he was a Chunin. It was impressive, especially since Sakura has no sharingan hax.
Also, Hinata is still outclassed by her infinitely more skilled sister and cousin. Not to mention, her and Kurenai vs any of the pairs you mentioned wouldn't last as long as Sakura and Chiyo. 😉
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Correction: Either solos. Hax powers for one, actual skill for the other.Also, Hinata is still outclassed by her infinitely more skilled sister and cousin. Not to mention, her and Kurenai vs any of the pairs you mentioned wouldn't last as long as Sakura and Chiyo. 😉
Naruto Post-Sage Mode Training has hax powers in Sage Mode or Kyuubi-chakra mode. Any version before that does not have hax powers; not unless those two somehow anger him to the point whereby Kyuubi comes out.
~ Bringing up Hinata like that could be seen as flaming, but meh, I like it.