The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
O RLY?

Normal. Used by his left eye.

Enton. Controlled by his right eye.

Since Itachi was using the eye that made Amaterasu instead of his other eye, he was using Katon.

Then again, if the anime is to be believed, Sasuke was using his left eye against Gaara. So IDK, maybe it is Enton normally. Wiki says otherwise and I do consider it to be Enton when it is being shaped.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Again, look at the scan I posted, he uses the regular left eye. The right eye can manipulate enton but in this case, he is using regular Amaterasu, left eye, and calling it an enton. I'd say wiki is wrong (big surprise).

lulz.

Well, I was thinking that, at one point, Kishi had it wrong. That, or he's flip flopped on what he wants to be what.

Despite having read the manga, watched the anime, and your arguments with AA, I still am not sure which is properly which. 😐

I think its pretty simple. Fire releases control fire, blaze releases control blaze. What is "blaze"? I think it is the correct term for amaterasu fire. While it seems Angel would have it be the "property of controlling amaterasu".

If the databook refers to it as Katon, there really is no argument to be made. The Wiki uses the databook en mass so that justifies my using it.

And as for the scene, I really can't tell for 1 if Sasuke's eye is opened. And if it is, he can always be using Enton to attack. But it doesn't matter because he explicitly says he was using Enton to guard, i.e using the Right Eye to manipulate it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, advantage would be Wind. 🙂

Disadvantaged would be Earth.

Nulled due to canceling each other out? That's not an "advantage", that's nullification.

But you're saying it "Only blocks one element." I.e. it performs better against that element than other attacks.

You've yet to provide evidence that it'd do less well against, say, fire attacks. You've just said 'lightning can block lightning,' and then went on to assume it won't block other jutsu, even though we have seen it do so on multiple occasions.

Originally posted by Q99
But you're saying it "Only blocks one element." I.e. it performs better against that element than other attacks.

You've yet to provide evidence that it'd do less well against, say, fire attacks. You've just said 'lightning can block lightning,' and then went on to assume it won't block other jutsu, even though we have seen it do so on multiple occasions.

Just accept the fact that I'm right. You know you want to. 😖hifty:

That said, the armor likely has weaknesses when concentration is divided considering the design. My guess anyway. That or maybe Sasuke just put more power into the attack. Or combination. Whatever.

Oh, and I've seen someone touch A with their bare fist while he was in the shroud.

Last panel. 😖hifty:

Turning it down is something that it does make sense for him to do.

---
This is one that should be sorted out sooner or later, what are the odds of A *not* being hit by a non-lightning attack? 🙂

Though I must say, if it doesn't protect against other attacks, A'd be much lower in S than I thought. I've been considering him to be speed, power, and defense in one. If his only defense against most things is speed, sure he's dangerous, but he's not as overpowering as the combo of "you'll almost never hit and if you do, you're still screwed unless you have a ton of power of your own in the hit."

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
If the databook refers to it as Katon, there really is no argument to be made. The Wiki uses the databook en mass so that justifies my using it.

And as for the scene, I really can't tell for 1 if Sasuke's eye is opened. And if it is, he can always be using Enton to attack. But it doesn't matter because he explicitly says he was using Enton to guard, i.e using the Right Eye to manipulate it.

Nope. I'm saying my answer allows for the databook to be correct along with the manga. Whenever Sasuke does advance shape manipulation with his right eye to do things like guarding himself, it is Enton. When it is normal, it is used by his left eye and is Katon.

Mind telling me why it matters if it's Katon or Enton? 😮

all i remember of explicit shape manipulation was the anti-raikage shenanigans, and his dragon thing he tried on itachi which is in the same vain as naruto's rasen shuriken jutsu and other characters like danzou who use chackra molding to make weapon shapes.

Originally posted by Q99
But you're saying it "Only blocks one element." I.e. it performs better against that element than other attacks.

It may perform better against earth but I doubt that: enough earth should easily penetrate that armor that is obviously weak.

Originally posted by Q99
You've yet to provide evidence that it'd do less well against, say, fire attacks. You've just said 'lightning can block lightning,' and then went on to assume it won't block other jutsu, even though we have seen it do so on multiple occasions.

You have yet to provide evidence that it would perform better against, say...fire attacks. Tought pill to swallow, isn't it? 😄

We have not seen his armor block anything else. 🙂

In fact, a Kunai that was NOT infused with chakra was going to be used against it. Badda-boom: your answer about how "strong" the armor is.

Originally posted by dadudemon

You have yet to provide evidence that it would perform better against, say...fire attacks. Tought pill to swallow, isn't it? 😄

I'm not saying it'd perform better, I'm saying it'd perform the same unless shown otherwise.

I.e. how two non-advantaged/disadvantaged elements normally interact.

I don't buy that it's armor that's good against only one or two elements and that useless against the rest and non-elemental chakra.

In fact, a Kunai that was NOT infused with chakra was going to be used against it. Badda-boom: your answer about how "strong" the armor is.

No, it's really not. The kunai didn't hit.

Attempting an attack doesn't prove weakness.

Originally posted by Q99
I'm not saying it'd perform better, I'm saying it'd perform the same unless shown otherwise.

I.e. how two non-advantaged/disadvantaged elements normally interact.

I don't buy that it's armor that's good against only one or two elements and that useless against the rest and non-elemental chakra.

I did not say it "only blocks one element" I said that using lightning against it was one of the worst things he could have used against it except MAYBE an earth attack. That was supported by numerous examples throughout this thread. Let's not get off track.

Originally posted by Q99
No, it's really not. The kunai didn't hit.

Attempting an attack doesn't prove weakness.

Then you must support the claim that it would have failed.

My evidence that it would have succeeded is that it was Minato and his analytical skills on the fly are among the best AND fastest if not the best and fastest in Naruto. This is on top of B clearly defending A. If it would not have affected A at all..why did B defend against it?

My Assertion: supported.
Your assertion: unssupported and unspportable.

You can say that A was not commenting on Sasuke's attack being particularly useless against his lightning shield. That's fine. I agree that I am most likely wrong on that point but still maintain that it's possible I'm right.

Everything else I've brought up about these points you have not and cannot argue against.

Let's recap:

A could have been easily sliced/killed by Minato allowing us to conclude that non-chakra infused weapons can easily get through that shroud (at least level 1).

The shroud nullifies at least some portion of lightning attacks based off of the fact that "equal" jutsus seem to cancel each other out completely. Sasuke's barely got through because the majority (I say "majority" because that same tech easily cuts through tons of shit in near an instant) of that attack's attack power was nulled.
The shroud can be gotten through with just regular flesh, as well. This nullification of lightning based jutsus has been particularly proven multiple times in the manga. Conclusions to the contrary are simply WRONG without even the smallest question.

You want to say that the shroud would have nulled other attacks just the same if not better. That's not supported and cannot be supported.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Nope. I'm saying my answer allows for the databook to be correct along with the manga. Whenever Sasuke does advance shape manipulation with his right eye to do things like guarding himself, it is Enton. When it is normal, it is used by his left eye and is Katon.

Mind telling me why it matters if it's Katon or Enton? 😮

Originally posted by King Kandy
But he did no shape manipulation at all in the scan I showed, and still called it Enton.

He said he guarded with it. Amaterasu is not a defensive technique naturally, so he used shape manipulation to guard himself.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
He said he guarded with it. Amaterasu is not a defensive technique naturally, so he used shape manipulation to guard himself.

Faulty translation actually. He states that Gaara's Absolute Defence was still as good as ever, as it could guard against an Enton.

It makes no sense for Sasuke to praise Gaara's Absolute Defence, if he himself is guarding with an Enton.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Faulty translation actually. He states that Gaara's Absolute Defence was still as good as ever, as it could guard against an Enton.

It makes no sense for Sasuke to praise Gaara's Absolute Defence, if he himself is guarding with an Enton.

Hmmm

Well in that case it may normally be Enton and not Katon. I still don't know why that matters. 😮

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Hmmm

Well in that case it may normally be Enton and not Katon. I still don't know why that matters. 😮

Dunno. Think it has something to do with your original point about how Itachi's Amaterasu overwhelmed Sasuke's Goukyaku.

A better debate would be whether or not Sasuke's Enton: Kagutsuchi would have saved him from A's Guillotine Drop. 313

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
A better debate would be whether or not Sasuke's Enton: Kagutsuchi would have saved him from A's Guillotine Drop. 313

Well it certainly would have injured/killed A to go through with the attack....Sasuke would probably have died though since I don't think Enton is solid enough to keep A from connecting.

Hmm, was just thinking; could the technique jiraiya is talking about here, actually have been the biju blast ("real" rasengan)?

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v41/c370/10.html

Likewise, I always assumed this was some kind of explosion; only now do I realize the art depicts the chibaku tensei:

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v41/c374/11.html