The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Well a normal katon and an Amaterasu will burn you. I wouldn't say they are very similar at all though. Scale, execution, chakra needed to preform it, etc.

Faulty comparison.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Except the only person missing an eye revived by Rinne Tensei is Kakashi, who didn't get his normal eye back. I have no problem believing Rinne Tensei heals the wounds that initially killed the body I suppose but the similarities end there. For me anyway.

Don't forget the hundreds of severed limbs and body parts that would have happend from the crushing.

Counter this: both seem to revive the person at the last state they were in as they were alive.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Well, Nagato was revived before the eyes were taken out of his body anyway. Itachi would have been a better example. Secondly, DNA wouldn't really work like that. In fiction land, having even a miniscule amount of DNA allows one to clone dinosaurs and shit. Having the DNA of Itachi would come with the genetic makeup of the Sharingan for example. In fact, this actually proves Nagato's Rinnegan can't be Madara's. If they were transplanted eyes, there wouldn't be in record of them in DNA, unless it was gotten specifically from those eyes. And in that case, it would merely revive Madara...Dun dun dun!

You're telling ME this stuff? I'm the one that brought it up as major PIS. There is no proper apology for it.

The only way to explain it: it works like magic and has a sentience of its own. Similar to Harry Potter magic.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Granted, there are a few things that mess this up. Hanzo was revived with the poison sac, Madara sems to have gotten revived with Senju cells(though in this case, Kabuto specified that he did do something different for his Edo Tensei) and such. However, Kakuzu doesn't appear to have been revived with his transplanted hearts, getting the eye from Danzo would revive Shisui and not Danzo himself, etc.

Note: Seals seem to be revived with the soul, which is why Kimimaro and Hizashi still have them.

This should prove how arbitrary the resurrection techs are. They are full of PIS.

Regardless, Izuna was revived with his eyes by Madara shortly before his death. 🙂

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I was under the impression he got this mixed up because he was expecting to be revived by Rinne Tensei, not because he knew the difference. Madara should have said "Coffin? WTF!? They got it wrong!"

That is exactly my point. He KNOWS The difference, however. And quite clearly. He speaks of the original intentions of the ET, as well.

He has the Rinnigan and speaks of it like it was his plan to be revived, that way, by Nagato all along.

Since he knows about both, there's no reason to assume being resurrected does anything but just resurrect you into your perfect frame with Kishimoto arbitrarily deciding what is revived and what isn't.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Faulty comparison.

Sure it is.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Don't forget the hundreds of severed limbs and body parts that would have happend from the crushing.

Counter this: both seem to revive the person at the last state they were in as they were alive.

I didn't see them get revived though.

Sasori was revived with a completely normal body, which he had not had in years.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You're telling ME this stuff? I'm the one that brought it up as major PIS. There is no proper apology for it.

Si. Because you seemed to think Nagato should not have been revived with Rinnegan due to lack of DNA. Any DNA from Nagato's body however, would posses the blue prints for the Rinnegan.

Originally posted by dadudemon
This should prove how arbitrary the resurrection techs are. They are full of PIS.

Regardless, Izuna was revived with his eyes by Madara shortly before his death. 🙂

It certainly shows that Edo Tensei works differently than Rinne Tensei.

Sure, and Akamaru is really Tobi. There is no legitimate reason to believe this at the moment.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That is exactly my point. He KNOWS The difference, however. And quite clearly. He speaks of the original intentions of the ET, as well.

He has the Rinnigan and speaks of it like it was his plan to be revived, that way, by Nagato all along.

Since he knows about both, there's no reason to assume being resurrected does anything but just resurrect you into your perfect frame with Kishimoto arbitrarily deciding what is revived and what isn't.

Indeed, he knows the difference. But, here is a thought: No one took his eyes out his eye sockets after he died. We're assuming someone did without evidence. It's possible someone did but then, where is his Rinnegan?

Assuming Madara died with his eyes, he would probably expect to be revived with the eyes. Which would explain why he thought nothing of him having his eyes or not when revived.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Sure it is.

We know for a fact the both resurrection techs restore people's bodies to their proper frame. That's the only point of contention. It's a fact. It cannot be contended. We can move along instead of making faulty comparisons.

Your original intent was to show "derp! They are both fire and made from chakra! rawr!" I will not entertain that line of reasoning because it does nothing to change the postion already established.

If Madara resurrected Izuna...Izuna's eyes would be intact.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I didn't see them get revived though.

Sasori was revived with a completely normal body, which he had not had in years.

And you provided the poison sack example, too.

Problem?

And there's no need to see them get revived, first hand. If someone is blown to bits...and then is "revived" and is whole, you do not need to directly see them blown to bits.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Si. Because you seemed to think Nagato should not have been revived with Rinnegan due to lack of DNA. Any DNA from Nagato's body however, would posses the blue prints for the Rinnegan.

No. That's not how it works.

It works arbitrarily with DNA only being a lame red herring that Kishimoto created. And, no, I'm not joking.

None of Nagato's DNA would have had the necessary DNA to recreate the Rinnigan because those eyes were not Nagato's: they were Madara's.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
It certainly shows that Edo Tensei works differently than Rinne Tensei.

No it doesn't.

It shows that they both work the same.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Indeed, he knows the difference. But, here is a thought: No one took his eyes out his eye sockets after he died. We're assuming someone did without evidence. It's possible someone did but then, where is his Rinnegan?

You don't remember? Tobi put them into Nagato.

Nagato was refereed to by Madara as the one to resurrect Madara (he was quicly corrected, however...but that was the plan by Madara and possibly Tobi)

Madara's eyes are in the possession of Tobi and one is in Tobi's left eye-socket.

There's no need for direct evidence if you use a tad bit of logic. You don't even have to make any assumptions, with this: it's all there.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Assuming Madara died with his eyes, he would probably expect to be revived with the eyes. Which would explain why he thought nothing of him having his eyes or not when revived.

That makes no sense. He planned for Nagato to do it.

If he died with his eyes, but planned for Nagato to have them and revive him...then why your point make even a little sense?

We end up with two pairs of rinnigan, regardless of whether it was Rinni resurrection or ET. The result is the same. This is why your criticism is invalid: the eyes are restored regardless of the resurrection technique used.

In fact, there's more reason to believe that Rinni resurrection ONLY restores the physical body to it's last best frame than the ET.

Meaning, there's more reason to believe that Izuna was resurrected WITH his own eyes than there is to believe he was resurrected without his eyes.

You do remember what the original discussion, was, right?

Originally posted by dadudemon
It works arbitrarily with DNA only being a lame red herring that Kishimoto created. And, no, I'm not joking.

None of Nagato's DNA would have had the necessary DNA to recreate the Rinnigan because those eyes were not Nagato's: they were Madara's.

Zeroed in on the important statements.

This is going against what is shown and stated in the manga. You are wrong.

If Nagato did not have the DNA for the Rinnegan, he would not have been revived with it. If they were Madara's eyes, their DNA is with Madara, not Nagato. Both summoned bodies have been shown using the Rinnegan so yes, I assume the DNA for this particular dojutsu was in both of them. It goes along with the explanation for how ET works.

As for how Nagato got the Rinnegan, I do not know how Tobi gave it to him except apparently he did. Nagato was revived with them though, so the only way it could have been transplanted was if Tobi somehow made the Rinnegan integral to Nagato's DNA structure.

Which is a stretch mind you.

And....done.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
This is going against what is shown and stated in the manga. You are wrong.

No. Kishimoto is wrong.

There is no DNA of their eyes in other parts of their body. That DNA would be different DNA because it is not their original body part.

Same thing happens if you get a liver transplant. It still has the other person's DNA. Kishimoto ****ed up. Plain and simple.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
If Nagato did not have the DNA for the Rinnegan, he would not have been revived with it.

Wrong: he was revived with the eyes despite the fact that that is NOT his DNA: the eyes are Madara's not Nagato's. They were implanted by Tobi.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
If they were Madara's eyes, their DNA is with Madara, not Nagato. Both summoned bodies have been shown using the Rinnegan so yes, I assume the DNA for this particular dojutsu was in both of them. It goes along with the explanation for how ET works.

But it's wrong. Kishimoto ****ed up.

You cannot use the DNA as your avenue of resurrection since the DNA of implanted eyes would not be the same as the host. He would have had to resurrect both and then take the eyes from the resurrected body and put it in the other. Kishi did not think that through when he decided to use DNA as his avenue.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
As for how Nagato got the Rinnegan, I do not know how Tobi gave it to him except apparently he did. Nagato was revived with them though, so the only way it could have been transplanted was if Tobi somehow made the Rinnegan integral to Nagato's DNA structure.

So you've never heard of a transplant? We can do those. All they do in Naruto is take out the old eyes and put in the new ones...then heal the eye socket to the new eyeball. Rejection due to immune system response be damned like it would be in the real world...but there's no DNA change.

If there was, then why does taking your brother's eyes unlock them into EMS? That would mean that you have to have some sort of different ion for the respective bodies to recognize and active the ultimate KG: the EMS. So there is a maintained differentiation occurring with transplanted eyes.

However, we know compatibility is an issue with the eyes: else Nagato be specifically selected and used by Madara and Tobi?

See what I mean about Kishimoto trying to have his cake and eat it too? He just f*cked up, majorly, in his explanation. He tried to make it less like magic and more like science but ended up destroying his cred with the science part through his contradictions.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Which is a stretch mind you.

And....done.

Your butthole his being stretched. 313

Oh please. They come back with cloths and weapons as well. That's not in their DNA. This is no worse.

So I've been reading through older chapters of the manga, around when Gaara was a villain, and couldn't help but think that in some ways the art was actually better back then than it is now.

Do other people notice this, or is it just me?

It was grittier. Much more cleaned up now than before.

Both have their advantages.

He has simplified it over time as he's gotten "better", that way, he can spend less time drawing it.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Oh please. They come back with cloths and weapons as well. That's not in their DNA. This is no worse.

They have sword DNA.

Originally posted by Q99
They have sword DNA.

😆

Wasn't it you and I who originally argued about this?

Originally posted by dadudemon

Your last statement does not make much sense.

Your latter statement is: "Izuna being in that casket would not necessarily have to be true". If the latter is true, and the former is not...then you end up with these two statements:

1. Izuna is not Tobi.

2. Izuna being in the casket is not true.

So both statements end up being false.

Did you intend to create that?

I think what you meant was this.

1. Izuna is not Tobi.

2. Izuna is in the Casket.

In that version, that makes sense because, yes, Izuna is dead and Izuna is not Tobi.

Essplain, comrad. Essplain it to me. 😄

No, what I meant was that if Izuna is Tobi, him being in a coffin does not have to be true.

But now that you mention it, I'm wondering why exactly I typed down that last statement and why I did so that way. I don't think I typed 'latter' when I meant to type 'former' (and vice versa), or 'true' when I meant to say 'false' as that would have been redundant, but that's the only reason I can think of right now.

Regardless, what I was saying was that Izuna could be Tobi, and that Izuna did not have to be dead.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel

As for how Nagato got the Rinnegan, I do not know how Tobi gave it to him except apparently he did. Nagato was revived with them though, so the only way it could have been transplanted was if Tobi somehow made the Rinnegan integral to Nagato's DNA structure.

Nagato is Madara's...son/clone/heir...

vin 313

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
No, what I meant was that if Izuna is Tobi, him being in a coffin does not have to be true.

That doesn't make sense since we saw the flashback of him in the coffin. It wasn't a statement but a flashback of him actually being in a coffin. Flashbacks are the ultimate canon: no one to make shit up about it.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
But now that you mention it, I'm wondering why exactly I typed down that last statement and why I did so that way. I don't think I typed 'latter' when I meant to type 'former' (and vice versa), or 'true' when I meant to say 'false' as that would have been redundant, but that's the only reason I can think of right now.

Regardless, what I was saying was that Izuna could be Tobi, and that Izuna did not have to be dead.

Meh. Doesn't matter at this point.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That doesn't make sense since we saw the flashback of him in the coffin. It wasn't a statement but a flashback of him actually being in a coffin. Flashbacks are the ultimate canon: no one to make shit up about it.

Madara did lie about the Kyuubi though...or rather forgot to mention that he was the one who caused it to attack Konoha. Besides if that flashback really is true then that would mean that he either is the real Madara(not likely at this point), Izuna, or someone who saw Izuna die.

Man this whol Madara thing is weird 🙁

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Madara did lie about the Kyuubi though...or rather forgot to mention that he was the one who caused it to attack Konoha. Besides if that flashback really is true then that would mean that he either is the real Madara(not likely at this point), Izuna, or someone who saw Izuna die.

Man this whol Madara thing is weird 🙁

The actual flashbacks, however, are real. It is the words about what we see that can be wrong...

Izuna was dead in a coffin. We know he died. Madara can make up stuff about everything concerning that...

Originally posted by King Kandy
Oh please. They come back with cloths and weapons as well. That's not in their DNA. This is no worse.

Originally posted by dadudemon
The actual flashbacks, however, are real. It is the words about what we see that can be wrong...

Izuna was dead in a coffin. We know he died. Madara can make up stuff about everything concerning that...

Alright I've got you 😄

I wonder if it's been brought up ever but I wonder exactly how Izuna died: cause last time I checked, losing your eyes wasn't really a fatal injury unless unattended.

So...did Madara just steal his brothers eyes and let him bleed to death? Was he already dying such as the case with Obito? Seriously I want to know.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Its either that or they come back weaponless and naked. This way its more epic.

Nah. The nay ked part sounds better/epic.

Naruto: But you're still you, and you're just one guy!

Tobi: Well actually at the moment I'm about seven dumbass.

I liked this chapter. Tobi is getting really interesting, and I love all his crazy eyes and head tilting.

So Tobi is no one?

Lies. He's someone. He's probably Madara. He might be some sort of long living Shadow Clone: The utimate Shadow Clone. (Not the same as the Mummykage's split clone). Since Madara offered to take off his mask...we will get to see who Madara is and then we get to see Kakashi's face...wait...I mean we get to see B and Naruto captured by Tobi.

Can't have a Moon's eye plan without B and Naruto's beasts. I thought it was funny when B was saying "yeeeaaaah boooyyyyyy" but cut off mid "oyyyy" at Madara's comeback. Good stuff. It will be funnier in the Anime.