Originally posted by Q99
Well, he's actually been beaten by Naruto, then stood up to in conversation, then found someone he hated more than Naruto (by a lot), then had Naruto say he didn't hate him.I don't think thawing a *little* is unreasonable in the circumstances.
BTW, I've got a new theory on Madara's acquirement of Senju cells:
He needed Senju cells in order to have full control over Kyuubi.
Naruto's main body away from 4th division may have been a good thing.
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
I find it kinda lame how it seems like Naruto's Talk no Jutsu is sorta having an effect on Kyuubi.
Thinking about it...
Hiruzen was such a *****.
Hiruzen: Now, 3rd Raikage, I'm a little annoyed about that whole Kushina incident. I think you should be punished somehow.
3rd Raikage: No, **** you.
Hiruzen: Well darn.
Hiruzen: Well A, unlike your father, I know you won't be like your dad. You'll receive punishment for kidnapping Hinata honorably right?
A: No, **** you. And give me Hiashi's body.
Hiruzen: Well darn.
Hiruzen: Danzo, I think you should stop Root. Giving us a bad image.
Danzo: **** you Sarutobi. I will not stop Root, even if you make it against the law. What cha gonna do about it biatch?
Hiruzen: Well I guess I can't do anything...
Danzo: Damn right. And we're killing the Uchiha. I want their eyeballs.
Hiruzen: But, peace should be-
Danzo: Hiruzen, I'm gonna say this once. **** peace and **** you. Order the Uchiha dead.
Hiruzen: Well darn.
😬
Eh, we don't know what the fallout was of the incidents, or the situation. There could've been fighting following the Kushina one for all we know.
In both kidnapping cases, Cloud lost ninja. Definitely the latter one where the guy they lost was rather high-ranking and likely rather strong, and it would've been rather easy to spin it as the Leaf taking advantage of talks to assassinate a Cloud higher-up and gain an edge.
And the Danzo one... the Uchiha really *were* plotting revolt, and it wasn't just Danzo pushing that.
I know. But all I know about Hiruzen are his failings as a leader. He couldn't stop Danzo from continuing Root, failed to make peace with the Uchiha apparently, and it really didn't matter if the Cloud lost ninja. They got away with attempted kidnapping and Konoha had to give up a ninja. WTF Saru?
I mean, I hear a lot of complaining about Tsunade but at least she had a backbone. She'd have kicked A's ass if she were in Sarutobi's situation.
Did they have a stronger military at the time? Only reason I ask is because Yamato said something that indicated Konoha could have won.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-18115-13/naruto/chapter-457.html
And Yamato has some balls to say that to A's face. Damn man.
It would seem that Yamato was saying that Kumo still existed as a military power because all-out war was avoided though Konoha avoiding it via appeasement. Which proves the point that Konoha was being Kumo's b*tch in that situation.
Seems legit.
But we could also say that Hiruzen was not willing to risk so many lives over a claim that most Kumo would say was a lie on Konoha's part (the actual reason Konoha avoided war). Kumo could claim arbitrary actions of death against their ambasador and Konoha could claim that truth...but no one would get the correct answer and know it was true from either side...resulting in another war right after one had ended.
Seems like the most strategic way to save the most Konoha lives, imo...even IF it seems like a "b*tch" move. And Konoha got the last laugh because Kumo didn't get the Hyuga military head: they got its slopppy seconds, instead. Take THAT Kumo. 🙂
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I know. But all I know about Hiruzen are his failings as a leader. He couldn't stop Danzo from continuing Root, failed to make peace with the Uchiha apparently, and it really didn't matter if the Cloud lost ninja. They got away with attempted kidnapping and Konoha had to give up a ninja. WTF Saru?
They didn't just lose any ninja, they lost a very major one.
And the resulting war likely would've been very bloody at the least. Even if they won, they'd lose a good deal of strength.
Hm, I wonder if they got good terms in the treaty itself...
Ratings- one, think I should put Izuna up at S+ for being as strong as MS Madara?
Two, I'm thinking of putting complete Susano'o Sasuke (that is, not EMS, but Danzo fight Sasuke), at S+. Sure, it was only for the length of a single fight, but it was notably stronger than his incomplete mode, and it was noted in the anime versus forum that like that he'd beat almost all of the Akatsuki for the majority.
Originally posted by Q99
Ratings- one, think I should put Izuna up at S+ for being as strong as MS Madara?Two, I'm thinking of putting complete Susano'o Sasuke (that is, not EMS, but Danzo fight Sasuke), at S+. Sure, it was only for the length of a single fight, but it was notably stronger than his incomplete mode, and it was noted in the anime versus forum that like that he'd beat almost all of the Akatsuki for the majority.
Izuna is probably closer to S.
Madara, before EMS, should not be that powerful. Most of everything he did was EMS or Rinnigan.
Originally posted by Q99
The difference between MS and EMS seems mostly to be the lack of blindness/running out.Current Madara is SS, not S+, mind you. This'd be Izuna matching a Madara who still has strong chakra and skills and MS, but not several of the uber jutsu he showed.
Madara, before using EMS, was S or S+.
Then he busted out his EMS and started pwning.
Then he busted out his Rinnigan and proved he was God.