Gonna start last thing first:
They differ in almost all meaningless ways. And since my entire point is about he respect and honor granted concerning the names...I find your "casting my entire point aside" quite hilarious. You conceded and didn't even realize it.
Here's the thing:
What you're arguing and what you're saying are apparently two different things.
Your meaning is, apparently, about respect and honor. Fine! We're agreed! Always have, no argument. If you just said this, there'd be no argument.
What you're arguing is that Naruto ripped off Bleach and that the name thing works the same between the two of them.
And noooooo, they really don't. They're pretty distinct in how they handle the names with Bleach giving them far more direct influence, and furthermore, the whole "importance of names thing," is an ancient concept that Bleach didn't make up.
It's really a lousy argument for ripping off. It's more like they're two different handlings of a very traditional concept.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Suck on your own words:"Nope, the biju are actually, literally the weapons. Zanpakuto are the power and the power can even exist after the zanpakuto's are sheathed in. (Aizen and his sword: they only have to see it once, the scarring on Grimmjow from Ichigo's getsuga tencsho, etc.). A shinigami can also specifically separate the power and the sword (Sajin and his bankai, Kuchiki and his bankai). The biji are very similar to a zanpaku-to because both are always used as weapons."
Except no, the biju are independent beings and the chakra can be used without them.
Having the effects remain isn't the same as having the power remain. Aizen cannot hypnotize without the sword. Ichigo cannot do getsuga tensho without his. Etc.. You can't use any of a zanpaku-to's powers without the sword. If they were done in the past, sure, you can take advantage of them, but you can't do new ones.
Ginkaku can transform without Kyuubi, Gaara can use sand without Shukaku, and all the jinchuuriki can use most of their signature powers without their biju, they just lose the tailed modes. You can use the powers to do new attacks at will.
You keep doing a strait word-swap, and it keeps not fitting.
"You can hear a zanpakuto's name if someone on the street says it. They have *no* known special properties."
Except we do know the special properties. Saying the name is required to activate shikai in all but one case (and that case where it was forced does have disadvantages as a result). And until you dominate the blade, you need to say the name every time you activate it.
Knowing the bijus name isn't known to be required for powers.
Well, then you didn't read the last chapter. Until you read the last chapter, you should not be discussing this topic. Until you know the following:knowing a biju's name and calling them by that name in a respectful manner gains you the biju's respect.
Sure, in the same way that calling a Captain their name respectfully gets respect.
Not in the sense of "you need it to activate certain powers."
Even total 100% biju control doesn't need the name, it can be done simply with the eyes. And it's not even needed to gain respect.
It is one possible way to gain respect. But so is "I'll do something about your hatred," or "I like you," or what have you.
If it is your own biju, it will grant you the ability to sync with it as you both must overcome the trial of "getting to know each other" which is exactly like the trial to get to know your zanpakuto"
Not really, you don't need to get to know the biju if you have certain powers, and you can gain even high-level abilities like total chakra mode without being friendly with your biju or having those special powers.
In Bleach, you need to get to know your zanpaku-to to activate shikai, which is in turn a prerequisite of bankai.
In Naruto, if you're strong enough and you can beat your own hatred, you can kick your biju to the curb and make fun of them constantly, never refer to their name, and have the next-to-highest level of biju control possible. If you have sharingan or wood, then you can get to the highest without.
You continually miss that point and blindly overlook that that is my main point.
I can't help but notice that none of the ways you keep word-swapping technically fit.
I'm not overlooking your main point, I'm pointing out your examples are simply wrong.
You keep saying they're exactly the same but they're not.
Actually, no, learning then name does not give you shikai. Examples include Ichigo and Kenpachi.
Ichigo learned Zangetsu's name when he got shikai, and it was how he got shikai.
Kenpachi is the only exception, his spiritual power forcing shikai. Even so, Zangetsu noticed that his blade and his own power clashed, unlike Zangetsu and Ichigo, as a result of this lack.
There are exceptions in Naruto: knowing Shukaku's name does not give you additional synchronization with that biju, either.
It's not an exception if it's every single case. The name has yet to give anyone any synchronization with a biju to our knowledge.
Knowing the name is merely a tool of politeness, it doesn't automatically unlock any power like with learning your zanpaku-to's name.
This, "knowing a biju's name and calling them by that name in a respectful manner gains you the biju's respect. If it is your own biju, it will grant you the ability to sync with it as you both must overcome the trial of "getting to know each other" which is exactly like the trial to get to know your zanpakuto"
Except we don't know of a single person where the name was a key component in gaining control of their biju. Not even Killerbee.
So if you want to make my point less than it is, keep pretending that I have meant this and only this the entire time: "ONLY KNOWING THE NAME GIVES YOU POWAH, GODAMNIT! RAAAGE!"
But here's the thing-
With Bleach, it does work that way.
"Knowing the name gives you powah," is explicitly how it works.
You starting this argument saying it's copying off Bleach... but if they work in two different ways, then that's not copying, is it?
It's not that I'm saying that's what you're saying. I'm saying, this is how it explicitly works in Bleach, and your argument is based on how it works in Bleach, so if it's not "Knowing the name gives you powah," in Naruto, then it's not based on Bleach.
Also, if you think knowing the name of your zanpkuto, alone, is what is granting them that power, you missed out on understanding what actually happens. I know you don't think that and you're pretending to have missed a major plot point in Bleach just to be right (even though my entire argument never hinged on such an idiotic point, anyway).
I'm pretty sure you missed a plot point.
You can't know a Zanpaku-to's name before you get shikai. You can't. The zanpaku-to can speak it and you won't hear it.
The moment you get that far in the relationship, the moment you learn the name is when you gain shikai. It is the key to the door that is shikai, in short.
Then, from that point forward until you learn bankai, the only way to activate shikai is to say it's name properly. If you fudge the name, it half-wakes up.
Thanks a bunch for finally getting my point. I suppose you are now conceding the point?This has been my point the entire time. This is part of a trial and process to become one with the "weapon".
Here's the thing: We are agreed on how it works in Naruto. That's why you're saying I'm 'conceding' here, but that's always what I've been saying too, it's not conceding, it's just agreeing where we've always agreed.
That's not how it works in Bleach.
Please go back and read the inner dialogue
I recommend you do too, and pay more attention to the names and the shikai section- Like how Zangetsu tried to tell Ichigo his name and fails.
Yes, respect and honor is involved. However the names pay a very specific role, they are distinct signs of the level which has been reached, which they are not in Naruto.
Then when you see the "innermind" is exactly like the "innermind" setup in Naruto...you'll see yet another parallel I've pointed out.
I'll point out that Naruto visited his inner mind, with the cage and stuff, waaaay long ago, and Naruto started first, so it didn't come from Bleach.
And on the same note: Naruto knowing Kurama's name and actually KNOWING Kurama's name are two different things. The name is the icing on the cake and will show us the progress of respect and honor between the two: just like a zanpakuto.
But, in Bleach, there is no such distinction. You can't 'know' your own zanpaku-to's name without KNOWING it.
This is not an error and this further proves how you're approaching this subject. You're the one forcing all the supposed contradictions. The only real difference is one has more direct influence on the power granted from "names" and the other has a more symbolic influence on the power granted from "names". Both are symbolic, both grant power.
That's a huge difference. One has a direct influence, a major one, the other doesn't.
"Respect" is just one of several ways of biju control in Naruto and not even one that many people use, 3 of the 4 acknowledged total masters of Biju didn't use it.