Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Who said anything about using the CS? I suppose he could have but it's not shown. Just like how Naruto summoned Gamabunta without drawing on the Kyuubi's chakra onscreen. Mind you, I believe he took chakra from the White Snake but it's not that it matters. I can always say Deidara is fallible and Sasuke wasn't out of chakra.
So Sasuke using his cursed seal passed a certain point does not allow Orochimaru to take over/be summoned?
By the way, the only thing the white snake power gives is massive regeneration. It has never been shown or implied to grant chakra. the opposite is true: it drains chakra. That would be the stupidest thing Sasuke could have done: use a move that drains a massive amount of chakra.
Also, the overuse of the cursed seal allows Oro to take over. This is mutually exclusive to the white snake healing jutsu.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Well yeah. You know why he was too so I don't see the reasoning in bringing it up. Unless your saying that Sasuke being injured proves he didn't draw on the White Snakes chakra. To which my reply would be, it went into something other than healing.
I told you the reasoning: Naruto has a tailed beast in his body for drawing out stupid amounts of chakra even when he runs out. He proved he can force this control against Neji.
My reply about the white-snake/cursed seal argument is this: he would have been shown using it had he done so.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Not like Naruto was healed in the slightest when he summoned Gamabunta against Gaara,
Because he transferred that chakra straight into the summon just like he did when thrown into that canyon.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
even though you're arguing that he pulled the chakra from the Kyuubi to summon him.
Unlike Sasuke, there's a very good reason and a previously established mode of operation for why Naruto could do a summon while out of his own personal chakra.
Sasuke has none.
Originally posted by dadudemon
So Sasuke using his cursed seal passed a certain point does not allow Orochimaru to take over/be summoned?
If you were Orochimaru, would you pick that time to come out into the open? 🙂
Originally posted by dadudemon
My reply about the white-snake/cursed seal argument is this: he would have been shown using it had he done so.
My counter argument is: No, he would not have been shown using it.
Mind you, there is evidence to support him not being out of chakra. And just tired.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Unlike Sasuke, there's a very good reason and a previously established mode of operation for why Naruto could do a summon while out of his own personal chakra.Sasuke has none.
And there is a logical reason why Orochimaru would cooperate with Sasuke instead of choosing that time to take control over his body if he tried to force out more chakra. 😮
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
If you were Orochimaru, would you pick that time to come out into the open? 🙂
Where did you get this information that Oro has a choice in the matter?
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
My counter argument is: No, he would not have been shown using it.
Incorrect: in any instance Sasuke uses the cursed seal OR white snake, he is shown using it. It is to show the reader...that...get this...he is using it.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Mind you, there is evidence to support him not being out of chakra. And just tired.
Just tired and "out of chakra" are mutually inclusive. Ninja chakra usage 101.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And there is a logical reason why Orochimaru would cooperate with Sasuke instead of choosing that time to take control over his body if he tried to force out more chakra. 😮
And there is no logical reason to conclude that this was even part of the mode of operation from the beginning.
And there is a logical reason why Oro would come through at that time: to simply exist.
Edit - So your replies are all dodges. Instead, focusing on everything but what the actual topic is about.
Namely, Naruto has a factual reason for supporting why he can summon gamabunta and Sasuke has no support or logical reason for why he can summon Manda, use a high level genjtutsu on him, get inside Gamabunta's mouth, and survive a nuclear level blast at near ground zero all while being noticably exhausted and having a third party S-Class ninja comment on Sasuke being out of chakra.
Just admit it: you ****ed up in your support for trying to explain this situation. It's not supportable under any logical means. You only force yourself into baseless and unsupported corners.
Originally posted by NemeBro
When he is tripping over and unable to stand because he is really low on chakra.
Apparently, when Sasuke is low on chakra, he trips over and cannot stand. When he's completely out of chakra and has Orochimaru ripped out of his ass, he can run and jump.
😐
Originally posted by Nephthys
I honestly can't think of many worst examples except maybe in childrens stories.
Killerbee not having his legs cut off by Zetsu-Kisame.
That was infinitely worse than Sasuke pulling off a Summon and a Genjutsu in milliseconds while injured.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Sasuke has no support or logical reason for why he can summon Manda, use a high level genjtutsu on him, get inside Gamabunta's mouth, and survive a nuclear level blast at near ground zero all while being noticably exhausted
PIS as far as I am concerned.
Originally posted by dadudemon
having a third party S-Class ninja comment on Sasuke being out of chakra.
CIS.
Not even worth taking with a grain of salt.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Where did you get this information that Oro has a choice in the matter?
Logic. 😮
Originally posted by dadudemon
Incorrect: in any instance Sasuke uses the cursed seal OR white snake, he is shown using it. It is to show the reader...that...get this...he is using it.
And any instance in which Naruto has used the Kyuubi's chakra, it has also been shown. Given that during the fight with Gaara, he summoned Gamabunta without showing any Kyuubi chakra on screen, he must not have done so.
Originally posted by dadudemon
And there is a logical reason why Oro would come through at that time: to simply exist.
And then subsequently be killed by the explosion.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Namely, Naruto has a factual reason for supporting why he can summon gamabunta and Sasuke has no support or logical reason for why he can summon Manda, use a high level genjtutsu on him, get inside Gamabunta's mouth, and survive a nuclear level blast at near ground zero all while being noticably exhausted and having a third party S-Class ninja comment on Sasuke being out of chakra.
Not really. Naruto can apparently use the chakra of things sealed inside him offscreen, Sasuke can't. This is essentially your argument. And Deidara is fallible.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Just admit it: you ****ed up in your support for trying to explain this situation. It's not supportable under any logical means. You only force yourself into baseless and unsupported corners.
Not really again.
If you want to say Sasuke pulled all that chakra out of his ass, I can say Naruto did as well. If you want to say Naruto has a means of drawing out extra chakra through something inside him, I can say so does Sasuke. If you want to say Sasuke never did so onscreen proves he didn't do so, I can say Naruto didn't do it onscreen either. If you want to say the White Snake doesn't work like a Bijuu, I can show you scenes where it acts very similar to the Kyuubi. If you want to argue that Orochimaru has no choice, I would argue that since Orochimaru is every bit as sentient as the Bijuu, he can choose when he wants to help his host. If you want to argue that Orochimaru would come out anyway, I would point out that he'd die from the explosion.
So yeah...since this is pretty much how the argument would take place, I'm pretty much done. If you want to continue, maybe DP would feel like entertaining this. Personally, I'm gonna go watch The Princess Bride.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
When he's completely out of chakra and has Orochimaru ripped out of his ass, he can run and jump.😐
Only if he forces cursed seal usage after out of chakra.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
PIS as far as I am concerned.
That's right, b*tch. uhuh
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
CIS.
Not even worth taking with a grain of salt.
Nah. Not even close. It was spot-on accurate.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And any instance in which Naruto has used the Kyuubi's chakra, it has also been shown. Given that during the fight with Gaara, he summoned Gamabunta without showing any Kyuubi chakra on screen, he must not have done so.
I thought it was shown that Naruto even when not out of chakra can only summon Gamabunta by drawing on the Kyuubi chakra. After that you don't really need to explicitly show it.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Only if he forces cursed seal usage after out of chakra.Nah. Not even close. It was spot-on accurate.
Not really. He himself confirmed that he was out of chakra, and then ran up a structure to use Kirin.
Nah. Not even close. It was an assumption made with no chakra detection techniques, i.e. inaccurate.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh that. That isn't worse at all.
Yeah it is. It was an asspull that made all Naruto asspulls look like good writing.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenixyou mean like how kisame was replaced by a clone all of a sudden? talk about ass-pull. the questions that could spawn are endless, one for example: why didn't zetsu just amass a kisame army?
yeah it is. It was an asspull that made all Naruto asspulls look like good writing.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenixyou edited
Dear god this shitstorm is getting pointless now.
concession accepted
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yeah it is. It was an asspull that made all Naruto asspulls look like good writing.
If you say so. The difference is that it actually makes sense and the reason behind it is quite well explored and becomes quite influential. Sasuke just got out of that situation because he had to. But its worse because it doesn't logically work.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
you mean like how kisame was replaced by a clone all of a sudden? talk about ass-pull. the questions that could spawn are endless, one for example: why didn't zetsu just amass a kisame army?you edited
concession accepted
That, and Killerbee not having his ass cut off, which was actually an asspull. kruemelmonsteryn0
NO U.
Originally posted by Nephthys
If you say so. The difference is that it actually makes sense and the reason behind it is quite well explored and becomes quite influential. Sasuke just got out of that situation because he had to. But its worse because it doesn't logically work.
Quite well explored and influential later on in the story. Meh, I'll give you that. It made sense and was logical? Not really.
But to you, Sasuke's asspull was obviously worse because he's Sasuke.
Anyway screw this shit, I'm out. Take that as a concession if you want. You're still wrong on the lack of chakra anyway.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
That, and Killerbee not having his ass cut off, which was actually an asspull. kruemelmonsteryn0NO U.
That's a "dadudemon" joke.
Not that I mind but generally, sane people try to avoid my type of humor.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Anyway screw this shit, I'm out. Take that as a concession if you want. You're still wrong on the lack of chakra anyway.
I do not take it as a concession. Sasuke was running low on chakra based on the techs he used and his future chakra level showings. Unless you want to argue that his chakra stores got less since that fight, I think you're inclined to side with us.
If you want to say that Sasuke stored up some chakra a la Tsunade, I will buy that but only if you provide something very close to definitive proof. It doesn't have to say it explicitly, but it needs to be very darn close to saying, "Sasuke has a pool of chakra stored up in his body like Tsunade's genesis rebirth tech." I know someone is going to bring up cursed seal...but that's not going to fly since we did not see him start to use it before or after the event.