World of Warcraft

Originally posted by DarkC
They have 15 seconds after Freedom wears up to kill you, in which time they can easily do that.

Your stuns are moot, they are easily capable of negating your use of that.

Then they're as you said: idiots.

Every mage, no matter what class they are up against, puts Slow up right off the bat (unless it's a stealthed) if it's a one on one duel, forcing the Paladin - in this case - to blow his Freedom right off the bat.

Judgement of Justice doesn't do anything against arcane mages - unless they're mounted. Even with your Pursuit of Justice you'd waste a big chunk of the Freedom just trying to catch up to them if they start out at max range.

Then after Freedom is up, they just reslow you and just spam instant-casts until you're dead.

Nope, just Repentance.

Pay attention.

The only new paladin buff that everyone else commonly hates is your attack-while-immune bubble.

Theory's only a part of it - the rest comes down to cooldowns, and skill.

-it would take the mage more time to kill me than it would for me to kill him

-dont know how my stuns are allegedly 'moot'...cuz I can dump around 5k damage in the time it takes for them to recognize the stun and attempt to negate it

-yes.. and all idiot mages seem to be falling under the overconfident godmode that you're speaking of

-do you forget that I have cleanse?

-Honestly.. theres no real point judging anything else or I would.. judge wisdom got nerfed to 1% base mana and -50% proc rate.. and judge light only gives back around 300 to 500 hp.. which is spit in the wind at this point in time

-"Trinket" + "I accounted for the above already" = allegedly saving all cooldowns and trinket to "Pwn" me.. I'm obviously paying attention

-Attack while immune bubble has been there since wow's release... I dont get why its so different and suddenly irritating for you (and supposedly everyone else) at the current time

-Like I said, theorycraft... you've already assumed / Theorized the mage starts at max range, and that I'm immediately at a disadvantage... welcome to theorycraft 101

Originally posted by DarkC
Arcane mage with cooldowns (right now) >>>>>>>>>>>> Ret Pally with cooldowns, end of story.

fixed

Originally posted by DarkC
No other classes get this. No other classes come even close.

You have a very significant amount of time to do whatever you want - attack, heal, whatever - while you are completely immune to everything and anything your opponent can possibly do to you for that duration.

Whoever doesn't think that mechanic of the bubble isn't extremely overpowered is an idiot.

I save my Trinket for the Hammer, and Berserker Rage (It's usable in all Stances now as of 3.0.1) for Repentance.

With the global cooldown for Paladin abilites, ret pallies I face one-on-one never get a crit-bonus on their Judgement of Command.

Ever.

Plus, if you Hammer me, all it does is feed me even more rage (and give me a 10-second HoT of about 1300), allowing me to disarm you even faster after the initial Reflect.

No other class gets a lot of "overpowered" abilities some classes have

Its just an "oh shit" button which is easy to counter, do you stand next to the paladin while he bubbles? if so

l2p

if it was so "overpowered" i wonder why its in the game for so long

You cant battle with text guys, you have to fight eachother

And yes you must be playing some shitty paladins cause warrior cant do shit to a pally at 70, never has even pre 3.0

warrior are a joke to mages and paladins, and also

1v1 fights are pointless

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-it would take the mage more time to kill me than it would for me to kill him

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-dont know how my stuns are allegedly 'moot'...cuz I can dump around 5k damage in the time it takes for them to recognize the stun and attempt to negate it

Either you are playing mages with reflexes that aren't worth shit, have terrible lag or you're completely bluffing - as I mentioned earlier while playing as a warrior, as soon as I hear the sound of the Hammer of Justice I mash trinket (it's on a mouse button very close to my thumb) or if I see the Repentance debuff I mash Berserker Rage. They never catch me with the crit bonus on a Judgement of Command, because I have a whole 1.5s to act until the Global Cooldown allows you to Judge.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-yes.. and all idiot mages seem to be falling under the overconfident godmode that you're speaking of

Seriously, BGs are totally different.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-do you forget that I have cleanse?

Yeah, not much of a plan.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-"Trinket" + "I accounted for the above already" = allegedly saving all cooldowns and trinket to "Pwn" me.. I'm obviously paying attention

As mentioned before, stop assuming that BGing counts for everything.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-Attack while immune bubble has been there since wow's release... I dont get why its so different and suddenly irritating for you (and supposedly everyone else) at the current time

Before, Paladins had the option to either heal himself while bubble was active or keep their foe in combat by cancelling out of it. Now they can do either and both at the same time.

Never before in WoW history has there been a move that allowed ANY class complete immunity while offering complete omnipotence with their skills. Not only is it there, it lasts a whopping 20 seconds. The only downside is that your attacks are slowed a little, but judging from your instant casts, that shouldn't even matter.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-Like I said, theorycraft... you've already assumed / Theorized the mage starts at max range, and that I'm immediately at a disadvantage... welcome to theorycraft 101

If you're starting a duel with a mage, the very first thing they do before they accept, or before they challenge, is to make sure you're at range. If you run towards them, they just run away and start mashing their Slow button.

Seriously, when was the last time you went outside and duelled a non-suck arcane mage?

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
No other class gets a lot of "overpowered" abilities some classes have

This is a game where things are supposed to be fair. At least vs. a mage they can't just go completely immune on me and start shitting his instant casts everywhere. My point is, I still have a chance. But vs. a Paladin, I can't do anything except take it.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
Its just an "oh shit" button which is easy to counter, do you stand next to the paladin while he bubbles? if so

l2p

1.) Every retadin has Pursuit of Justice. Even if I use Boar's Speed or the Increased Speed Meta gem, that still isn't enough to get away. They'll be able to catch up with me even if I attempt to run.

2.) Turning my back to a retadin is stupid. I can't dodge, parry, or block if I'm facing the wrong way. At least I can mitigate some of the damage if I'm facing them.

3.) Some classes have an ability that they save for when the Paladin bubbles. Rogues Vanish, Mages run away and Invisible. At least they can negate the use of the bubble offensively. What about warriors? What do I get? As a warrior I have absolutely nothing I can do but to just hide behind a shield and take it best as I can. If you actually expect me to somehow run away when you bubble, or if warriors you face do that, then they must seriously suck. You can't run from a Paladin if you're a warrior. You don't have any speed-enhancing elements to your class unless it's with gems or enchants, and even that's not nearly enough. That's usually when I save Shield Wall, I can't do anything except just take it and mitigate as much damage as I can.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
if it was so "overpowered" i wonder why its in the game for so long

"Some time"? Try since it first came out, morons.

Even if some move is ridiculously overpowered, as you can see here, even if Blizzard KNOWS it's unbalanced, they likely won't care a lot of the time, they'll just tell people to live with it.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
And yes you must be playing some shitty paladins cause warrior cant do shit to a pally at 70, never has even pre 3.0

Here's a simple question for you: Do the warriors you're facing ever go and stay in Defensive Stance, or do they just stick with a 2H the entire time?

If the latter, then they're all scrubs who can't play worth shit. All of them.

You see, I can't beat a retadin unless I go Defensive on them. I only ever come out of Defensive and use a two hander to Bladestorm when I have an opening.

With Revenge getting buffed, a hit with a 1H'er from Revenge hits about the same as a Mortal Strike with a 2Her in battle stance, which might explain how I saw that some T5/T6 prot-specced warriors were able to completely rip retadins new assholes whenever they attempted to duel. After the first 3k shield slam crit it's kind of funny to watch them panic and bubble.

I've also had some retadins, after duelling me, ask me how I was critting them for about 2k - repeatedly - when I had a shield on and in Defensive Stance. I just link Unrelenting Assault and Revenge for them.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
warrior are a joke to mages and paladins

Regrettably, 95% of warriors I see are quite unskilled, even the ones that are better geared than I am. Then again, Posidon taught me how to duel a mage as a warrior, and I've been doing fine against them ever since. Most fights I still lose, but I put up a very decent fight out of it (usually bring them to maybe 10%)

Originally posted by Mairuzu
1v1 fights are pointless

Originally posted by DarkC
They never catch me with the crit bonus on a Judgement of Command, because I have a whole 1.5s to act until the Global Cooldown allows you to Judge.

Yeah, not much of a plan.

No, don't even go there.

Before, Paladins had the option to either heal himself while bubble was active or keep their foe in combat by cancelling out of it. Now they can do either and both at the same time.

Never before in WoW history has there been a move that allowed ANY class complete immunity while offering complete omnipotence with their skills. Not only is it there, it lasts a whopping 20 seconds. The only downside is that your attacks are slowed a little, but judging from your instant casts, that shouldn't even matter.

Seriously, when was the last time you went outside and duelled a non-suck arcane mage?

Thats nice.. I dont Judge Command however.. so way to fail at thinking you know what ret is about

Cleanse is certainly not a plan.. its a tool..and I hadn't stated otherwise.... assume less, listen more

SINCE RELEASE (hell...BEFORE release(and to add, it was in warcraft 3 long before it even made it into wow)), bubble has been there.. what the hell are you talking about never before in wow history?... jesus christ... and it doesnt last 20 seconds either... and 100% extra time added to your swing timer is indeed a lot of slow

the only argument of yours that holds water about bubble is the ability to perform instant actions while within it...

I have never, ever, ever, had to make a choice between keeping someone in combat or cancelling my bubble.. you must be confusing divine shield and divine protection..

I fight them in arena.. why do I have to go outside of iron forge?... also.. duels fail on the grounds of range restriction

i.e. hunters are unable to utilize their full potential at the risk of "fleeing from (so and so) in a duel"

imma gank you all with my rogue lawl

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
Thats nice.. I dont Judge Command however.. so way to fail at thinking you know what ret is about

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
Cleanse is certainly not a plan.. its a tool..and I hadn't stated otherwise.... assume less, listen more

He'd be still far enough away from you that he'd still manage to throw in instant casts.

Fail strategy.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
SINCE RELEASE (hell...BEFORE release(and to add, it was in warcraft 3 long before it even made it into wow)), bubble has been there..

what the hell are you talking about never before in wow history?... jesus christ... and it doesnt last 20 seconds either... and 100% extra time added to your swing timer is indeed a lot of slow

Second, your swing timer simply doubles. Your white damage is greatly decreased - it isn't as if you're helpless in the DPS department. It isn't as if you can't attack at all. You can still Judge and Crusader Strike. The doubled swing timer is just about the ONLY excuse that Blizzard has for allowing such an absurd mechanic into WoW.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
the only argument of yours that holds water about bubble is the ability to perform instant actions while within it...

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
I have never, ever, ever, had to make a choice between keeping someone in combat or cancelling my bubble.. you must be confusing divine shield and divine protection..

No, before it didn't allow you to do anything offensively. Before 3.0.1, the only thing you did was heal after the bubble was popped. The only thing that allowed you to attack at all while "bubbled" was the former Blessing of Protection. The strategy with most other classes when the bubble was popped was to get out of combat and bandage/eat/drink.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
I fight them in arena.. why do I have to go outside of iron forge?... also.. duels fail on the grounds of range restriction

i.e. hunters are unable to utilize their full potential at the risk of "fleeing from (so and so) in a duel"

First, if you're saying that in arena you're actually able to get right up close to an arcane mage before they cast slow on you (which is what you're baldly implying here) this kind of really confirms my theory of you fighting severely retarded mages.

Second, hunters can easily kite around in circles if they wished. The duelspace isn't restricted to a narrow corridor in which the only directions are forward and back.

1v1 is srs bsnsssssss

Originally posted by DarkC
And what Seal do you judge vs a warrior?

You running after the mage spamming Cleanse to get rid of Slow is a plan, which is what you were implying - if Slow is dispelled or wears off, mage puts it right back on. Rule of Thumb.

He'd be still far enough away from you that he'd still manage to throw in instant casts.

Fail strategy.

Well, first of all, if you had bothered to read the context of what I was saying, you'd understand that certain aspects of the bubble (as mentioned before, complete omnipotence with complete immunity) were recent and were the ones I was referring to. Again, keep up.

Second, your swing timer simply doubles. Your white damage is greatly decreased - it isn't as if you're helpless in the DPS department. It isn't as if you can't attack at all. You can still Judge and Crusader Strike. The doubled swing timer is just about the ONLY excuse that Blizzard has for allowing such an absurd mechanic into WoW.

And cast any spell, anything. All that happens is that your normal attacks are twice as slow, which isn't a devastating loss.

I've been talking about the one that gives you immunity while still allowing you to do whatever the hell you want. I'm pretty sure you know which one I'm talking about.

No, before it didn't allow you to do anything offensively. Before 3.0.1, the only thing you did was heal after the bubble was popped. The only thing that allowed you to attack at all while "bubbled" was the former Blessing of Protection. The strategy with most other classes when the bubble was popped was to get out of combat and bandage/eat/drink.

...what?

First, if you're saying that in arena you're actually able to get right up close to an arcane mage before they cast slow on you (which is what you're baldly implying here) this kind of really confirms my theory of you fighting severely retarded mages.

Second, hunters can easily kite around in circles if they wished. The duelspace isn't restricted to a narrow corridor in which the only directions are forward and back.

-Don't worry what I judge.. it trashes people, thats all you need to know

-Cleanse would be a last-stand tool should freedom happen to falter.. in which case I dont just pop freedom over everything, as you assume, which is why I realise you've been fighting nothing but fail ret pallies

-Keep up with what?... your complaints with bubble are some of the oldest and misinformed shit I've ever heard in my entire time playing this game.. DIVINE SHIELD.. has always allowed attacking / healing / and spell casting, from within Immunity... DIVINE PROTECTION, is the bubble you get at like level 10 and only bother using til like level 18 or so, and thats the one that prevents you from performing "Physical Actions", and is therefor the one you're "yearning for the days of "old"(i.e. days that never existed) for...

-Blessing of Protection has never allowed physical attacks from within its confines... keep up on your tooltip reading if you're going to tell ME what paladins do.. thanks

-If they're retarded, so be it.. I mean hell if YOU can manage to kill paladins as a fail warrior, I'm certain anything can happen

-Having to kite in circles severely cripples the true essence of kiting, thus severely crippling their true power... Duel = Fail.. they only serve to give a ballpark figure of things.. nothing more

Do you only play warrior and gripe about paladins (who's skill tooltips you obviously never bother reading before you complain about them)?... cuz thats what its coming across as

Originally posted by BackFire
imma gank you all with my rogue lawl

And and. I think we need a new KMC guild. 😐

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-Don't worry what I judge.. it trashes people, thats all you need to know

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-Cleanse would be a last-stand tool should freedom happen to falter.. in which case I dont just pop freedom over everything, as you assume, which is why I realise you've been fighting nothing but fail ret pallies

Once a retadin's Blessing of Freedom is up (it can even be Spellstealed by the more clever mages as I have seen) they're essentially just meat for an Arcane mage with all cooldowns.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-Keep up with what?... your complaints with bubble are some of the oldest and misinformed shit I've ever heard in my entire time playing this game.. DIVINE SHIELD.. has always allowed attacking / healing / and spell casting, from within Immunity...

Do you only play warrior and gripe about paladins (who's skill tooltips you obviously never bother reading before you complain about them)?... cuz thats what its coming across as

Again, stick to the point and don't attempt to sidetrack what I'm getting at here.

You say that the do-anything-you-want-while-immune bubble has existed since WoW first came out. This doesn't make sense on a few levels. You need to explain two things:

1.) I've played the game since beta release, and never have I seen a Paladin attack while bubbled unless it was a BoP. In all the duels I've been in and all the pre-BC PvP videos I've seen, the retadins done nothing but heal while bubbled, and why they seem to need to always cancel their bubble to resume attacking. Until 3.0, that is.

2.) Why the numerous complaints about this aspect of the bubble have only sprung up recently, since the patch came out.

I have a retadin friend on my old server (Nymmasring - Medivh) who I have had my fair share of duels with outside Orgrimmar, never once pre 3.0 have I seen him pop a bubble outside of BoP that allowed him to attack whiel bubbled. He was stuck with healing, when he threw down something like a consecrate or a Hammer of Justice, away went bubble.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
DIVINE PROTECTION, is the bubble you get at like level 10 and only bother using til like level 18 or so, and thats the one that prevents you from performing "Physical Actions", and is therefor the one you're "yearning for the days of "old"(i.e. days that never existed) for...

-Blessing of Protection has never allowed physical attacks from within its confines... keep up on your tooltip reading if you're going to tell ME what paladins do.. thanks

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-If they're retarded, so be it.. I mean hell if YOU can manage to kill paladins as a fail warrior, I'm certain anything can happen

Despite the obvious trolling, I'll choose to ignore it for the sake of argument.

As I said before, 90% of all warriors I see are scrubs, sometimes scrubs with better gear than I have. I beat retadins becuase I play differently, sometimes it surprises them.

I'll ask you the same question that I did to Mairuzu - do the warriors you fight stick to using a 2Her when they're fighting you, or do they go defensive stance?

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-Having to kite in circles severely cripples the true essence of kiting, thus severely crippling their true power... Duel = Fail.. they only serve to give a ballpark figure of things.. nothing more

Any other notion of it is ridiculous. Every melee class has its way to catch up with kiters now, thus negating your "essence of kiting" nonsense . It doesn't matter if it's in a circle or not, because it's just the same - one class running away from another while still attacking. Not running in a straight line doesn't restrict it at all.

Originally posted by Cherrÿ
HA. Your maces don't do shit to me anymore, foo.

And and. I think we need a new KMC guild. 😐

My new daggers rape faces now.

Originally posted by BackFire
My new daggers rape faces now.

Season 2 ones. They suck. But dagger specs are much improved.

Originally posted by DarkC
Ah, typical evasiveness.

No, I just happen to have an IRL friend who had 2000+ rated teams with his mage at the end of season 3 - in short, he is a mage who actually knows what he's doing, even against 4/5 Brutal retadins like Elfmaster.

Once a retadin's Blessing of Freedom is up (it can even be Spellstealed by the more clever mages as I have seen) they're essentially just meat for an Arcane mage with all cooldowns.

Keep up with the one I'm referring to. You're trying to be coy for some silly reason - I'm talking about the bubble that allows omnipotence while immune, there's only one, yet you insist on poring through them all as if it actually meant something.

Again, stick to the point and don't attempt to sidetrack what I'm getting at here.

You say that the do-anything-you-want-while-immune bubble has existed since WoW first came out. This doesn't make sense on a few levels. You need to explain two things:

1.) I've played the game since beta release, and never have I seen a Paladin attack while bubbled unless it was a BoP. In all the duels I've been in and all the pre-BC PvP videos I've seen, the retadins done nothing but heal while bubbled, and why they seem to need to always cancel their bubble to resume attacking. Until 3.0, that is.

2.) Why the numerous complaints about this aspect of the bubble have only sprung up recently, since the patch came out.

I have a retadin friend on my old server (Nymmasring - Medivh) who I have had my fair share of duels with outside Orgrimmar, never once pre 3.0 have I seen him pop a bubble outside of BoP that allowed him to attack whiel bubbled. He was stuck with healing, when he threw down something like a consecrate or a Hammer of Justice, away went bubble.

Noise.

I have to say that's a record, no one else I've debated with has sunk so low as to resort to personal insults so fast. Do you see me calling you a fail retadin? No.

Despite the obvious trolling, I'll choose to ignore it for the sake of argument.

As I said before, 90% of all warriors I see are scrubs, sometimes scrubs with better gear than I have. I beat retadins becuase I play differently, sometimes it surprises them.

I'll ask you the same question that I did to Mairuzu - do the warriors you fight stick to using a 2Her when they're fighting you, or do they go defensive stance?

Simply because it's not in a binary direction? Don't give me that "true essence of kiting" garbage, kiting is kiting.

Any other notion of it is ridiculous. Every melee class has its way to catch up with kiters now, thus negating your "essence of kiting" nonsense . It doesn't matter if it's in a circle or not, because it's just the same - one class running away from another while still attacking. Not running in a straight line doesn't restrict it at all.

-I've already told Mairuzu what seal I use and judge.. so if you didnt care to read.. please take your own advice about reading posts

-Divine shield has been there since beta.. and you've always been able to attack while in it.. keep up with what?.. that I actually read my damned tooltips?.. god...

-again.. you've never ever ever been able to attack while blessing of protection'ed.. only cast spells.. same thing with "divine Protection" except DP cannot be placed on friendly targets

-I guess the dummies were still using divine protection instead of divine shield? how the hell should I know? A lot of the stuff paladins were capable of were only realised by very few people that were willing to try with it even though it was labeled unplayable

-No no... the complaint that was most recent.. was the ability to pop avenging wrath + divine shield simultaneously.. thats all, and it was fixed with the re-addition of forbearance to avenging wrath...

-You arent even debating with me.. so dont give yourself such a high status.. you've insulted me and my ability to pvp.. you've just done it indirectly.. I choose not to beat around the bush... I feel insulted, so shall you

-Straight line means you cannot ever catch up.. if they travel in a circular motion you can psyche them out and cut them off.. same as any FPS.. simple shit.. go fight a hunter that kites you clear across nagrand.. and then fight another that just runs around in circles and see that you'll have a higher chance of winning with the latter

Edit : Heres your bubble video -PRE BC-

YouTube video

You can parade your words such as "binary" to describe a direction.. but your failure to understand the simple things that I've stated is really aggrovating.. now that you've seen that attacking while bubbled was COMPLETELY possible before 3.0... I shall bury this "debate" (LAFF).. because it sucks

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
Season 2 ones. They suck. But dagger specs are much improved.

Maybe for levelling in WOTLK.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-Divine shield has been there since beta.. and you've always been able to attack while in it.. keep up with what?.. that I actually read my damned tooltips?.. god...-again.. you've never ever ever been able to attack while blessing of protection'ed.. only cast spells.. same thing with "divine Protection" except DP cannot be placed on friendly targets

-I guess the dummies were still using divine protection instead of divine shield? how the hell should I know? A lot of the stuff paladins were capable of were only realised by very few people that were willing to try with it even though it was labeled unplayable

If you want, find me a pre-BC retadin video or something that had them attacking and using their abilities while Shielded, then I will believe you.

Even if you're right, that doesn't explain how I only took notice of this bubble after, coincedentally, 3.0 came out.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-No no... the complaint that was most recent.. was the ability to pop avenging wrath + divine shield simultaneously.. thats all, and it was fixed with the re-addition of forbearance to avenging wrath...

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-You arent even debating with me.. so dont give yourself such a high status..

Might want to think about what you say next time before casting out random insults.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
you've insulted me and my ability to pvp.. you've just done it indirectly.. I choose not to beat around the bush... I feel insulted, so shall you

By telling you that from what the strategies you have suggested that you have apparently not yet faced a mage who knows what he is doing?

By telling you my warrior's strategy vs retadins and why it works even against good retadins?

By telling you that a retadin will be unable to beat an arcane mage, if both are skilled, geared, and have all their cooldowns?

Not falling for this one, sorry. It doesn't matter to me whether you're insulted (again, I don't understand where I've insulted you as a player personally) or not, but if you make such an absurd and foolish accusation like this, then you may as well just quit now.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-Straight line means you cannot ever catch up.. if they travel in a circular motion you can psyche them out and cut them off.. same as any FPS.. simple shit.. go fight a hunter that kites you clear across nagrand.. and then fight another that just runs around in circles and see that you'll have a higher chance of winning with the latter

Quite the opposite is true actually. Once the hunter starts kiting, he or she is in control no matter what direction they go to. Kiting in circles is the same as kiting while in a straight line in the end, it's just a slight change in direction now and then that doesn't affect the hunter's kiting potential at all.

The melee trying to catch up with the hunter kiting them isn't going to pull any dekes or jukes. They're trying to catch up to the hunter as soon as possible, which means travelling after them period. It's hard to predict which way they're going to turn. If you veer in a direction that you think they're going to take they'll just go the opposite way. They react to you - not the other way around.

If anything, kiting in a straight line is worse for the hunter to do. At least from a warriors point of view, I don't have to worry about any direction she's going to turn. My warrior's been kited in PvP since the first time he stepped into a BG, so I would know.

Also, the frost AoE trap is most useful using circular kiting.

Originally posted by DarkC

If you want, find me a pre-BC retadin video or something that had them attacking and using their abilities while Shielded, then I will believe you.

I've insulted your personal ability to PvP how?

If anything, kiting in a straight line is worse for the hunter to do. At least from a warriors point of view, I don't have to worry about any direction she's going to turn. My warrior's been kited in PvP since the first time he stepped into a BG, so I would know.

Also, the frost AoE trap is most useful using circular kiting.

-Already did, scroll up.. kthx

-You've clearly stated that no matter what I do, that theres no way that I can defeat an arcane mage, and if I do that they're dumb, regardless of my personal skill level... insult

-With traps on a 30s cooldown, the hunter having a max ~40yd range(?)... he would not need to run in a circle

So I see that its okay for you to put the mage at max range with me, but not in a general hypothetical situation?.. again.. indirect slander

To boot, you've stated that bubble is sooo overpowered.. but you brag about killing ret paladins all day long?.. c'mon now

I've defeated a protection warrior, in defensive stance ...he was very good and it was close.. but a loss is a loss

Anyways.. this is fruitless because you're not going to give me the benefit of the doubt.. like I'm just gonna run around 2-shotting noobs and brag about it.. you dont even believe when I literally spell the tooltip out for you, and still insist that something is there that never was... like.. what kind of debate is this?.. its a friggin mess.. spam your ridiculous argumentative terminology elsewhere.. I'm not impressed

-Edited (because I'm not wasting another slot to say this)-

Originally posted by DarkC
discussing?

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
You can parade your words such as "binary" to describe a direction.. but your failure to understand the simple things that I've stated is really aggrovating..

Also doesn't make much sense, because I've never seen retadins attack while bubbled, only heal. Ever.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
now that you've seen that attacking while bubbled was COMPLETELY possible before 3.0... I shall bury this "debate" (LAFF).. because it sucks

And disregard the whole mage vs retadin segment, which was what we were originally discussing?

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
--You've clearly stated that no matter what I do, that theres no way that I can defeat an arcane mage, and if I do that they're dumb, regardless of my personal skill level... insult

Even if you were exceptional, vs an exceptional mage with similar gear to yours you would still lose.

Some classes will never, ever win against others under normal circumstances if they were being played by similarly skilled players, for example, hunter vs druid. Druid always wins.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
Telling people "It's like this and nothing you can do will change it, ever." is not a discussion.. and I hope you know this.

That's where the whole debate stemmed off from.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
-With traps on a 30s cooldown, the hunter having a max ~40yd range(?)... he would not need to run in a circle

Are you referring to my mention of the AoE frost aura?

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
So I see that its okay for you to put the mage at max range with me, but not in a general hypothetical situation?.. again.. indirect slander

If you were somehow able to get right up melee range on an arcane mage one on one and get the jump on them without the mage noticing you and Slowing you, they either:

1.)Were surprised or distracted by someone else.
2.)Were unmounted and you were mounted.
3.)Suck.

How does any of the above offend your personal PvP skill? Those circumstances are completely independent of whether you were the best on the server or just another scrub.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
To boot, you've stated that bubble is sooo overpowered.. but you brag about killing ret paladins all day long?.. c'mon now

I can kill them because in Defensive I just shield block and spam Revenge and Reflect, and they just cannot do nearly the amount of damage that I do in return. I reflect most of their Judgements, shout their AP down, and they can't do nearly as much damage as I do to them. That's about when they usually blow bubble.

Sometimes I get lucky with a placed Shield Slam dispel (dispelling an Blessing of Freedom or Might) too, that helps.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
I've defeated a protection warrior, in defensive stance ...he was very good and it was close.. but a loss is a loss

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
Anyways.. this is fruitless because you're not going to give me the benefit of the doubt.. like I'm just gonna run around 2-shotting noobs and brag about it..

I said I doubt that they were skilled in the first place. Seriously, why do you not get this by now...

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
you dont even believe when I literally spell the tooltip out for you, and still insist that something is there that never was... like..

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
what kind of debate is this?.. its a friggin mess..

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
spam your ridiculous argumentative terminology elsewhere.. I'm not impressed

Yeah, you really have no grounds to say something like that at all.

GG.