Boromir [merged]

Started by shadowy_blue10 pages

That's all true, but the problem is, people most of the time generalizes that Denethor is purely evil and nothing but a cold, cruel, and unworthy person (let's put being a "father" and a "husband" aside) without their own reasons. People hate him just because they "have to" and other people do, and that's the way the movie portrayed him. Denethor is regarded as a villain in the book, and these qualities have been exaggerated in the film to the point where it seems impossible for us to like the guy. (This is one of the moments when I regret that the movies were made and when I'm annoyed by the non-book readers who don't have any clue what they're going on about. I know it's unfair and I shouldn't really blame anyone but I can't help the way I feel, the purist in me can't remain idle everytime)

Oh well, I can't do anything with it anymore, I think I'm among the "book-Denethor is BETTER" crowd (same case about Legolas). I was very likely that person sitting behind you in the theater who made all those little disgusted sighs whenever he was in front of the camera. I have no problem with John Noble, he's excellent, I just hate Denethor's characterization. For me, this is worse than the Faramir-changing personality issue. At least, in Faramir's case, even though his personality was changed, people still feel sympathy for him. But not with this guy. People actually saw him as an idiot and they actually laughed when he died.

Ooo yeah! *high fives shadowy*

*high five*

😄

*cough* I've been too depressed with this issue. 😛 Let's get back to Boromir. 😄 Kit, as you are the moderator, can we also talk about any other things concerning Boromir or just his death?

You can talk about Boromir, how valiant he was.

i just wrote the longest little essay on what would have happened if Faramir had joined the fellowship instead of Boramir, but accidentally hit 'new topic' instead of 'add reply' so the last 30 minutes of typing and thinking has just gone to waste, but you all really would have liked it, maybe i'll type it up again soon...

right now, i need to go and kick someone or break something!!!

it might help if you humor me and act all impressed!!!

aww sory bar....plz type again

Yeah. I want to read it too. 😄 Boromir and Faramir are my favorite characters and reading an essay about them will never be very bad at all. 😄 Please consider typing it again. 😄

Btw, Boromir's death in FOTR is such a incredibly well composed piece of a movie sequence, so that I am speachless when I see it again and again and again. It would be cool to see Boromir fight in Minas Tirith, but most of all see him and Faramir fight together when Osgiliath is retaken from the dark forces. (sequence from TTT:EE when Boromir and Faramir and Denethor are seen together for the first time in the LOTR trilogy)

and the last

It would be awesome. 🙂

long live BOROMIR!

oh wait....umm...never mind...

Just to keep this thread going, I want to talk about the valiance and coincidence and prophetic dream that came to our none other than Boromir, and of course, Faramir. 😄

Bar, I don't want to snatch your idea, but your idea fascinated me considering that the Gondor brothers are my favorite characters so I actually thought about it. Don't be mad. 😄

Supposing that the dreams that came to Boromir and Faramir about Isildur's bane came from "The Powers", don't you think that Faramir was the one who was meant to go to Imladris since he dreamt about the dream several times while Boromir have only dreamt about it once?

*woahhh!! don't attack me just yet* 😛

But, I've also thought about it, and I realized a certain thing. If Faramir was really meant to go, then Boromir wouldn't have dreamt the same dream at all, right? 😄 No matter how many times it was.

If Faramir was the one sent to Imladris and eventually be one of the Nine Walkers, Faramir would be unlikely to cause the Breaking of the Fellowship and without it it's possible that Frodo would not have found the courage to try to leave alone. We know that the Breaking of the Fellowship was the best thing that could have happened. If it had not then Aragorn and Faramir would have likely gone to Gondor. Gimli and the Hobbits (maybe Legolas too) would have gone with Frodo to Mordor. The latter group would not be ideal in terms of stealth, would have been unlikely to snare Gollum and therefore would not have found the secret way into Mordor. That may have left them unable to get there or they would have had to pass far to the East and come in by the back route. This would have taken so long that Sauron would have likely won in the interim.

Also no Hobbits would come to Fangorn, Rohan would have probably fallen since Aragorn, etc. aren't there to place back their hope. Rohan would not have come to the aid of Gondor, instead Saruman would have headed that way too. If not to Rivendell. The Army of the Dead would not have liberated Southern Gondor and the troops so released would have come to Pelennor. Basically, Gondor would have likely fell even quicker and even if the Ring had been destroyed it would have been too late.

So, having Faramir go with the Fellowship just wouldn't have worked. The Fellowship had to break. Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli had to be at Helm's Deep. They had to go on the Paths of the Dead. Merry had to be with Theoden and Eowyn. Pippin had to be in Minas Tirith with Denethor and Faramir. Frodo and Sam had to be with Gollum, in Mordor. Everyone had to be at the Black Gate to divert Sauron's Eye, otherwise Frodo and Sam wouldn't have made it to Mt. Doom.

So yeah, 😄 It's just the right thing that Boromir was the one to be the member of the Fellowship, and for the good of all, he had to die at the end. I'm not saying that it's good that he died, but it's the best thing for the Fellowship and for the whole quest to work. Someone has to sacrifice.

Now, I was wondering, if Boromir was meant to go to Rivendell, how come Faramir had to have those dreams too? I had read the book again and realized something. Recall that when Frodo and Faramir meet in Ithilien, it turns out to be very important that Faramir had that dream:

"Are the riddling words known to you that Boromir brought to Rivendell?" Frodo replied.

Seek for the Sword that was Broken.
In Imladris it Dwells.

"The words are known indeed," said Faramir in astonishment. "It is some token of your truth that you also know them."

This is a key moment in Frodo and Sam's efforts to convince Faramir that they are not enemies. If Faramir had not had the dream, one can imagine that things might have ended much worse. So the reason for Faramir to have had the dream was probably not so that he would go to Imladris. And it's pretty clear that Faramir, rather than Boromir, is the brother you would want the hobbits to meet in Ithilien, especially during the situation they were in. 😉

😄

shadowy blue your mind amazes me

Yep kinda scares me sometimes......

whoa.....why can't i think like s-b??....

Because imperfect men like us cannot grasp the same amount of wisdom that women can for the Goddess Athena was oh so very mean.

good work shadowy blue!!! you saved me from some laborious retyping...

you covered much of what I originally had typed BUT you forget that after Gandalf returned... he went to Rohan first. which is why he knows whats happening there when he reunites with the others. so although the fellowship would most likley not seperate as aresult of Frodos boromir-induced paranoia, I do not think that Gandalf would have allowed Edoras to be taken. So a detour through Raohan was inevitable as is Aragorns trip throufg the paths of the dead!!!

on the upside Bor. would have better protected osgilliath or at least Minas Tirith, and Denathor would have had more of a grip as the palantir may of afected him but his eldest son was a scource of confidence and faith.

of course having his less favored son bring the king would have really pissed him of to no end! 🙂

lol i would love to have a photo of his face

faramir: hey dad, you know how you hate me...well look what i found.....THE KING!

denethor: ...

Faramir: Nyah nyah! *dances around the great hall* I'll be steward and I don't gotta fight no more, dun dun, uh huh uh huh.

denethor: not if i can help it....look son go and die at osgiliath

faramir: ok *goes and fights* charge!!!

gondor soldiers: oh when the orcs (pippin voice over: ooohh hwhhen the orrrcs bayby) get killed alot (gggetttt KILLED ALOOT OH YEAH)

*swoooosh*

*thwack*

faramir: shit *falls*

denthor: all those years of neglect and now he is dead i love him......i know we must have a BBQ!

gandalf: *thwack bang whollop kill him with my staff*

pippin: i smell burning....*sees* NOOOOOOOOO!

gandalf: heeeree i come to save the daaaayyyyyyy!

denethor: i would have gotten away with it too...if it wasnt for that meddling maia! *jumps* *falls*

orc number 247074036 group YDG : *looks up* whats that it *gets crushed by falling fireman*