Omegaman - Just because something happened in real life doesn't mean it can't be redundant, that's simply stupid. Redundant means this -"Exceeding what is necessary or natural; superfluous.
Needlessly wordy or repetitive in expression: a student paper filled with redundant phrases."
This fits the passion like a glove, and no where does it say that because something may have happened in real life that it automatically can't be redundant. Please show me your reference for it being impossible for something to be redundant if it happened in real life. For I can't find anything that supports this.
And as Yerss pointed out, just because they changed the objects that were being used to torture him makes it no less redundant, the basic premise is still the same, Jesus being tortured. Whether it's by a crown of horns, a whip, or verbal abuse, the last 40 minutes was nothing more then Jesus being abused in some way or another.
You're right though, had the same basic elements been implemented in a horror movie I would have enjoyed it. Because they wouldn't have been used too try to guilt the audience into believing in the filmmakers view, but it would have been to add to the atmosphere of the horror film. Plus the scene probably wouldn't have lasted 45 minutes, if it did I would be bored by it's repetitiveness, just as I was with the Passions.
Oh and please, I know if I made a poll between TCM and The Passion that the passoin would come up on top. That's not news. It is, however, irrelevent. TCM is a 30 year old movie that is a cult classic that many people haven't seen or even heard of outside of the recent remake. The Passion is all over the news, it's all over the internet and is extremely popular right now. Of course The Passion would win in a popularity contest, I'm no fool. That means nothing, however. Popularity does not mean a movie is good. If the most popular movie of all time was known as the best movie of all time, then Titanic would be known as one of the best films of all time. It is not. And once all the hooplah over the passion dies down, so will peoples love for the film. I'll be interested to see if in 35 years The Passion will still have the kind of dedicated, and devoted fans like the original TCM will. I doubt it will though, people will forget about as soon as the next jesus movie is released that "honestly depicts the torture jesus christ went through" that is a success. People will eventually forget about the Passion and simply see it as what it is, a flavor of the week film that won't matter in teh future. Where as TCM is known as one of the most influential, important, and original horror films of all time, even too this day. Bottom line, popularity means nothing to anyone with a brain in their head.
You are wasting your breath , punker. backfire knows why he speaks so lowly of the movie but he wont admit it to us.You are talking to someone who is more entertained by the scences of young women and men being placed on meat hooks, cut up by chainsaws, tortured with hammers,eaten,etc than the scenes of an actual person who went through REAL torture that wasnt made up to entertain a sad audience. A real person who was tortured is BORING to him.
I will take your bet , backfire! If you think that TCM will go down in history as a more relivant and thought provoking film than THE Passion, you are just proving my point about your ability to judge a film!
This movie is being accepted and thought well of ,all over the world! To compare TCM to it is just stupid (to use your words bf). Although not one of my favs, Titantic was a well made movie and was entertaining, i would much rather be in the group of people who also think it was a good movie than to be in a group of "critics" who think the TCM is a more enjoyable & entertaining movie. While I do enjoy some horror movies, I do not make "heroes" of the killers in teenage slasher movies that there are just too many of! That type of behavior sickens me! Just as I was really sickened by a lot of the scenes in TCM, not because it was scary or gross for gores sake, but because the torture scenes went way too far,talk about being REDUNDANT! Anybody who saw the last torture scene of the surviving girl and not think that it went on for too long really has issues!
THE Passion had a meaning and purpose which was to show the suffering of one man who endured some of the most horrfic REAl torture ever inflicted and that he did it for people he knew and mostly for people he didnt know.
Please enlighten me, backfire...what meaning or purpose did TCM have?? I doubt even you can answer that and I am sure that if you manage to squeeze something out, it will be nonsense.
Face it The Passion will takes it lofty place in film history for a movie that spoke the truth, had a purpose, touch lives, made a difference,and broke records! WHile the TCM will keeps its lowly place of a gore fest shocker teenage slasher film that yes did give life to the scores of other gore crap that has been put out since its release. And we all know how proud a legacy that should be...come on, to give birth to a film genre that dipicts random acts of meanless vilolence like axe killings, cannibalism, chainsaw murders, placing girls on meat hooks, decapitations and many other sickening things that is really something to be proud of!! We all know what a great director Toby Hooper is just look at how well thought of he is...oh yeah thats right HE'S NOT!
Hate to break it too you omegaman, but the oringal TCM is already known as one of the most influential horror films of all time. Someone who claims to know as much about movies as you do should know this. It is sited by all sorts of horror directors, producers and writers (such as John Carpentor, Wes Craven, George Romero and Dario Argento) as a masterpiece in the genre, and is one of the most respected horror films of the past 40 years, right up there with Night of the Living Dead and Psycho. And I think their opinions is way more educated and valid then yours, as is mine.
It's easy to ignorantly assume that every movie that TCM spawned is crap. But that is, of course, untrue, and shows that you don't know much about the horror genre in general. But I won't hold it against you, most people who enjoy The Passion of the Crap and who actually were interested in the 45 minutes of boring, yawn inducing torture that served no purpose other then giving the religious folks another reason to preach to us about how great jesus christ is. Like we don't all already know the simple story of christ.
Anywho, Leatherface is far more a suitable hero then Jesus Christ any day. He was at least an interesting and unique character. Where as Jesus Christ was just a pansy who gave up and let people abuse him and beat him.
One particular statement you made caught my interest however....
"Just as I was really sickened by a lot of the scenes in TCM, not because it was scary or gross for gores sake, but because the torture scenes went way too far,talk about being REDUNDANT! Anybody who saw the last torture scene of the surviving girl and not think that it went on for too long really has issues!"
Heh, so a 7 minute torture scene was more redundant then a 45 minute torture scene? Yeah, typical illogical views of a religious sucker. Making me look better with every post my friend.
anyways, just because the passion had a tired and overly obvious message in it means nothing. Lots of movies have messages in them, and lots of those movies suck. The Passion was no exception, just because a film may have some simple message means absolutely nothing. Besides, it wasn't the film itself that had the message, but the story. Anyone could have made that film and it still would have had the same message that it contained, no big deal there.
I never claimed TCM had any sort of big message in it, I'm not pretentious enough to have to look deeply into every movie I watch to find some pointless message about something or another. The point of TCM however, as is with every good horror film, is to shock the viewer in some way or another. And it succeeded. When it was released it was the most shocking film ever made, don't take my word for it, find some of the people who saw it in the drive in and ask them how unique it was when it was released.
I know what you're going to say though. "but how can you say that it's ok for TCM to rely on shock value, but it's a negative aspect when The Passion does it?" To that I simply will reinforce the fact that TCM is a horror film, and the fact that The Passion is a biblical film, but relied on shock value is indeed a negativity. It should have relied on good storytelling and character development. Just because the main character was Jesus Christ, and everyone know his story is no reason to skimp out on one of the most important aspects of a good movie.
In the end, you have to keep in mind that the passion is simply a movie, like any other. It has actors, directors, writers, ect, and just because it involves jesus and was made to educate the viewer does not mean it shouldn't be judged the same as any other movie out there.
Oh, and you seem to know of some strange hidden agenda that I have for hating the passion, please enlighten me. Because for all I know I just dislike it because I was bored out of my wits during the film. Because it's not possible to simply dislike a bad movie anymore if it's about jesus christ, right? There has to be some horrible hidden agenda. Am I a servant of the devil? Do I hate the movie because I myself don't believe in christianity and therefor I feel I should hate on every religious movie out there? Please tell me, for I'd like to here this surely laughable reason for hating the film that you've mysteriously discovered that I don't even know.
Where as Jesus Christ was just a pansy who gave up and let people abuse him and beat him.
Are you not familiar with the term sacrifice? There's a huge difference. I mean, it's just fine to not believe in Jesus Christ or like the movie, but out of respect for everyone else, try and sound a little less unfavorable, especially if your reputation around here means anything.
Frankly, I'm extremely insulted, and that doesn't happen very often.
Also, there was nothing to "guilt" the audience into anything. Anyone who has read the Bible would see the exact same trials and tribulations in print. Visual evidence is going to put it into perspective moreso than words, granted, but Mel Gibson didn't write the Bible, he's just adapting the scene.
Yes, it will come as a graphic to some, but it's the ultimate testament to those who actually believe, and it puts the whole suffering into perspective. Showing the severity and extremity of the betrayal and subsequent sacrifice, and the selflessness.
To say it was a piece of "Christian Propaganda" is so inane and emptyheaded. Is there some statute that says that people can't share their divine inspirations?
You guys either like the movie, or don't. You're either a Christian or not. It just seems that people are a little too naive to grasp the concept of "less is more". There's no need to disect theology and the Bible itself just because you like a movie which is derived from the book.
It's as simple as I stated before. Just say you all don't like it, give some logical explanations as to why, and try and maintain some damn civility and respect in this thread, instead of chastising one another for your personal beliefs. Keep in mind it's just a movie, and that this is just a message board.
Lets not let our affiliations get in the way of conveying our opinions of a movie, since that is what is in question here, not the character himself.
🙂
(BTW, Yerss. Christianity is monotheism, believing in one or more God(s) is Polytheism. Big difference.)
Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
Are you not familiar with the term sacrifice? There's a huge difference. I mean, it's just fine to not believe in Jesus Christ or like the movie, but out of respect for everyone else, try and sound a little less unfavorable, especially if your reputation around here means anything.Frankly, I'm extremely insulted, and that doesn't happen very often.
Don't care about reputation.
One thing about the cash and then I'll shut up with it.
If Mel really did make the movie for his religious reasons, then let's see him donate the cash (minus the amount needed for production costs,payment of cast, and a little profit, etc.) to a worthy cause. Cuz if it's really not about the cash then he won't mind parting with most of it. He can give it to the Knights of Columbus, a nice Catholic organization.
Oh, and it didn't live up to THE hype. (not Atello's hype). To say that this movie wasn't completely played up and seen by tons of people because of the hype is ridiculous. (And it's now speculated that some of the hype was made up by Gibson's father, an advertising exec.)
I went into this movie with an open mind and was disappointed, plain and simple. It was boring and repetitive. And I'm sorry if I offend anyone in saying that, because that's not my aim, it's just my opinion. If I'm going to watch a movie about Jesus, I'd rather watch the ABC special put out a few years ago about him. I'm not interested solely in a good man's grueling death, though I know in the Christian doctrine it's imperatively important. I'm interested more in what he did with his life. (And please, noone say "his death WAS his life" because that's crap.)
Plus, the movie just left a bad taste in my mouth. I've yet to figure out why. Maybe it's because I feel in some way that Gibson was exploiting his religion for a paycheck, and that's my biggest pet peeve.
Originally posted by periera
One thing about the cash and then I'll shut up with it.
see, BF... you shouldn't wast your time typing lenghty replies... the ONLY thing you get back of these people is "eeeeew! you look at horror movies! you have no taste, so you can't even gasp this so wonderful movie!"
the best you can do, I think, is just to ignore them for a while so they get that besides their narrowminded way of thinking (every christian thing on earth is good, every other thing is bad. same goes for the people: christians are good, the rest are evil) people can have OTHER opinions and can actually find a fecking MOVIE redundant and just ...terrible.
and, apperently, no matter how many reasons you give here to why you dislike it, ... they will just keep giving the same answers: none, they just try and find something they dislike about you and start posting that repeatingly 🙄
little , little backfire.....You are the one who is making me look better with your own words! You call someone who endured the torture you called boring so that others could be saved, a patsy?? Then you go on to admit that you find the "character" and I hope you do know he is just a character(he's not real, little boy) Leatherface a "HERO"?? That speaks volumes for the kind of person you are!
As to my claim of your "hidden" agenda I think your patsy insult tells the whole story there!
AS for your claim of influence of TCM , yeah like I said , it spawned more gorefest crap with more chainsaw,axe,etc carrying madmen who have killed more people in horrible ways than the plague! Yeah, so this is a good thing?? Thats what this world really needs , huh? More movies that dipict the gruesome murders , rapes, tortures, decapitations, etc of innocent human beings to entertain the likes of backfire.
I am not saying that I dont watch , horror movies, I do . But where you and I obviously differ(thank the Lord) is that I dont "root" for the crazed killer with the chainsaw or axe! I do not make a hero out of some killer who kills women with chainsaws. I do NOT find that funny or thrilling like you do. Sure that movie(TCM) was shocking , but that is exactly what Toby Hooper intended to do with the scenes he put in it, he didnt go out and try to have the best actors or script(obviously by some of the lines), he went for shock value- isnt that what you are claiming of Mel Gibson??
Sure Gibson intended to shock, thats what so many other movies about Jesus didnt do, they DID NOT show what he actually went through! So THe Passion is the first one to do that, so that makes it "special" and "fresh"!
You and I are on 2 different pages( again I am thankful for that!) and we will never agree on this (until you see the truth), so lets leave it alone for now! I will still say that if you found this movie about an actual person enduring REAL torture for the sake of others(so that they might find LIFE) that speaks volumes about you as a person.
Yerss, don't ever speak for me, please.
I am probably just a big a fan of horror movie as Backfire is, and not once have I ever used personal preference in movies as a defense.
To be perfectly honest, you're no better than those people who are using the same defense, because in turn, you're just Godbashing left and right. Essentially, when you throw out your stereotypical views of Christians and how they feel about "The Passion", you are just as bad as everyone else. Narrowminded is not hearing people out, and both parties are guilty as charged, except for me.
That said, you're not as innocent. Also, if you have a problem with peoples post, use that "Report to Moderators" button at the bottom, instead of playing one yourself. It's a lot more effective, and alot less annoying. I don't know why Kes hasn't suggested this to you.