Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Not when you think your opinion is better than others, and must be approved by you first.
Ah but CM a belief that you have to be intelligent if you are fast just doesn't work. I know my times tables there if someone says 7 x 6 etc I can answer far quicker than someone more intelligent than me who does not know their tables as I react to the question more rapidly. A Flash that can think at the speed of light doesn't have to know his times-tables or be smart to answer quicker than me as he can add 7 x 6 together faster than my taught response can react.
This is what Creshok is arguing in my opinion and its unwinnable. light travels 33, 000, 000 metres in a second. The action potential and NCV Nerve conduction velocity in a human nerve whilst varying depending on the thickness of the myelin sheath and the second messenger is 10 of millions of times slower. Wally could potentially think a whole a whole months thoughts in a second. Interesting less seconds exist in a year than metres travelled by light in a second roughly 31, 400, 000 seconds rounded down. Flash really can do a lot of thinking he doesn't have to be intelligent, his fast.
Very fast. Although nothing compared to the fastest characters in comics the Warpsmiths from Miracleman who could be anywhere instantly. They didn't think as fast or move as fast as flash though they just controlled spacetime.
Originally posted by Kuntz
Ah but CM a belief that you have to be intelligent if you are fast just doesn't work. I know my times tables there if someone says 7 x 6 etc I can answer far quicker than someone more intelligent than me who does not know their tables as I react to the question more rapidly. A Flash that can think at the speed of light doesn't have to know his times-tables or be smart to answer quicker than me as he can add 7 x 6 together faster than my taught response can react.
Agreed here, peter is more intelligent, though he cannot "think" as fast, flash can simply get the advantage for that reason, his mind is more complex, but faster, I agree with you here.
My previous post was sarcasm, not aimed at you,lol.
Originally posted by Kuntz
This is what Creshok is arguing in my opinion and its unwinnable. light travels 33, 000, 000 metres in a second. The action potential and NCV Nerve conduction velocity in a human nerve whilst varying depending on the thickness of the myelin sheath and the second messenger is 10 of millions of times slower. Wally could potentially think a whole a whole months thoughts in a second. Interesting less seconds exist in a year than metres travelled by light in a second roughly 31, 400, 000 seconds rounded down. Flash really can do a lot of thinking he doesn't have to be intelligent, his fast.
Agreed
Originally posted by Kuntz
Very fast. Although nothing compared to the fastest characters in comics the Warpsmiths from Miracleman who could be anywhere instantly. They didn't think as fast or move as fast as flash though they just controlled spacetime.
Agreed,lol. I wasn't talking about you.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Agreed here, peter is more intelligent, though he cannot "think" as fast, flash can simply get the advantage for that reason, his mind is more complex, but faster, I agree with you here.My previous post was sarcasm, not aimed at you,lol.
Agreed
Agreed,lol. I wasn't talking about you.
I know it wasn't aimed at me and Parker is more intelligent than 99.9% of human heroes including Wally. Wally isn't thick though. He did accountancy
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I'm glad you realize how intelligent parker is, and aren't trying to pawn him off as a dumb kid.
Parker is a genius, he always should be prtrayed that way. I respect as a gharacter more than almost any other. He has when done well, been the best drawn and most heroic charactere of all. Like Supes he always wants to do the right thing, unlike Supes he doesn't have the power of a God so he can't always follow through. He always tries though. Nothing changes that.
🙂
Originally posted by Kuntz
Parker is a genius, he always should be prtrayed that way. I respect as a gharacter more than almost any other. He has when done well, been the best drawn and most heroic charactere of all. Like Supes he always wants to do the right thing, unlike Supes he doesn't have the power of a God so he can't always follow through. He always tries though. Nothing changes that.🙂
And he has frustrations like normal people, which makes him easy to relate to.
Yes, when done right, peter should be handing it to many guys, but people downplay him in crossovers and stuff to give a new guy a shot, or to cater to fanboys.
This is why so many people are upset about him not using webshooters in the movie and stuff...
Originally posted by CorderaMitchellYou don't have to know what you're doing in order to do something.
But they still don't know they're playing chess, hence my point that thinking faster can still be effective, even if you don't "consciously" comprehend things.
Thats a ridiculous argument. So paper can't hold ink because it doesn't know that its holding ink.
Ink can't come in different colors because it doesn't know that it is coming in different colors.
Chess computers can't play chess because they don't know they're playing chess.
Wires can't transmit electricity because they don't know they're transmitting electricity.
It's a ridiculous argument.
The chess computers play chess because that's what they are programmed to do. My computer can't play chess as well as Deep Blue because it's not programmed to.
If Wally never learned quantum physics he'd never be able to solve problems that require it, not matter how fast he thinks. Because he will never come up with the right answer because he wouldn't know how to come up with the answer.
It doesn't matter how fast you arrive at a conclusion, if that conclusion is wrong.
If Flash doesn't know how to do something, thinking fast will only have him arrive at the wrong conclusion faster.
Originally posted by Creshosk
You don't have to know what you're doing in order to do something.Thats a ridiculous argument. So paper can't hold ink because it doesn't know that its holding ink.
Ink can't come in different colors because it doesn't know that it is coming in different colors.
Chess computers can't play chess because they don't know they're playing chess.
Wires can't transmit electricity because they don't know they're transmitting electricity.
It's a ridiculous argument.
The chess computers play chess because that's what they are programmed to do. My computer can't play chess as well as Deep Blue because it's not programmed to.
If Wally never learned quantum physics he'd never be able to solve problems that require it, not matter how fast he thinks. Because he will never come up with the right answer because he wouldn't know how to come up with the answer.
It doesn't matter how fast you arrive at a conclusion, if that conclusion is wrong.
If Flash doesn't know how to do something, thinking fast will only have him arrive at the wrong conclusion faster.
Some of what your saying is right in some parts you've missed the point of the previous posts completely. bored now.
-Kuntz 🙂
Originally posted by Creshosk
You don't have to know what you're doing in order to do something.Thats a ridiculous argument. So paper can't hold ink because it doesn't know that its holding ink.
Ink can't come in different colors because it doesn't know that it is coming in different colors.
Chess computers can't play chess because they don't know they're playing chess.
Wires can't transmit electricity because they don't know they're transmitting electricity.
It's a ridiculous argument.
The chess computers play chess because that's what they are programmed to do. My computer can't play chess as well as Deep Blue because it's not programmed to.
If Wally never learned quantum physics he'd never be able to solve problems that require it, not matter how fast he thinks. Because he will never come up with the right answer because he wouldn't know how to come up with the answer.
It doesn't matter how fast you arrive at a conclusion, if that conclusion is wrong.
If Flash doesn't know how to do something, thinking fast will only have him arrive at the wrong conclusion faster.
Wow. Well said.
Originally posted by KuntzThe original point was:
Yes in parts but its not what the original point was about, which is probabilities and processing speed 😂
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
If Flash thinks at near lightspeed, why does he act so stupid in the JLA comics? He's always getting trapped in a forcefield, stepping in superglue, or slipping on ice.
Quality over Quantity. It doesn't matter how fast you do something if you don't do it right.
Originally posted by MetalmanxQuantum physics was just an example.
Why can't Wally just grab all the books on Quantum Physics, or any other subject for that matter, there are and speed read them in under a second. I'm sure that would help him grasp the concepts VERY well, allowing him to figure out the answers at extremely high speeds.
If he doesn't know how to do (insert subject here i.e: Quantum physics, Brain surgery, nuclear science), then him thinking faster won't help him as he still won't know how to solve a problem that requires (insert subject here i.e: Quantum physics, Brain surgery, nuclear science).
But as you said he might not be able to grasp the subject when learning something either.
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Like, "how fast can Flash react to a punch being thrown?" or something like that?
Exactly Original statement
It means you can run over more possible scenarios like a computer can carryonut more calculations, its how most computers a programmed to play chess etc
Creshosk reply
Originally posted by Creshosk
Yup, and chess computers can be beaten.Doesn't matter how many scenerios a person goes over if they never go over the right one, or decide on an incorrect one.
Which is wrong
Originally posted by Kuntz
Actually since Deep Bluebeat the reigning Chess champion Gary Kasparov in 1997, top level computers have been able to beat humans. Supercomputers are much faster now🙂 Flash is much faster than they are 🙂 with good writing he should always get the right scenario!
Creshosk now tells me computers already have answers in them which is wrong
Originally posted by Creshosk
Flash can think better than a computer. But those Computers already have the right scenerios in them and will ONLY choose the right one.Flash is not a computer(and especially not one designed for a single purpose) so has a higher chance of coming up with the WRONG scenerio.
I now explain computers know nothing( I do exegerate speed a littele though
No, not exactly, they generally go through different scenarios, based on combinations and possible sequences of moves, Others use a snapshot probability system. In working out scenarios flash is so fast he could get a pen and paper, write down all possible scenarios review them etc in the time it takes for someone else to react. We are talking billions of permutations at the speed of light
Creshosk still believes Computers "know" the answer
Originally posted by Creshosk
The computers still have the answers already, they just have to find them.Flash still has to come up with the answers himself.
He could probably still beat Spiderman, that's not what's in question.
I was just answering why Flash wasn't a genius.
Flash isn't a genius because he doesn't already have the answers. And coming up with the answers may not be his strong suit.
I explain Algorithms and simply
Originally posted by Kuntz
Not exactly its a case of running through yes and no's or probability gates, e.g. on, off and on/off. Flash can do exactly this even easier if he has a peice of paper thats how computers work. They do not have the answers in themComputers today work on the quantum dot system for and, or, not gates
I'm sorry Cresh thats as simple as I can explain, it all he has to do is a superspeed flow diagram-Kuntz😄
He still thinks you have to be good at chess to win not realining processing speed is the key.
Originally posted by Creshosk
And if he's not very good at flow diagrams in the first place?Because he still has to come up with the plan. And beleive it or not a computer does what it's programmed to do. and can't do what it's not programmed to do.
For example Flash vs Deep Blue would wind up with Deep Blue winning if Flash sucked ass at chess.
I try explaing again even more simply
Originally posted by Kuntz
Wally is quite intelligent he went to College. If you have time to go over everything you can be very thick computers are, they just know the rules and can play out scenarios. Computers are not good at chess. They have no "skill" at all they can just perform different possiblities very fast.Creshosk tries changing tack here, bluring what he means by being good at chess
[QUOTE=4626081]Originally posted by Creshosk
[B]You're grasping at straws now.Computers that are programmed for chess are not good at chess?
That's funny, I thought they had a high win ratio. . . now you're switching things around because I gave you a scenerio of what I meant?
No seriously, do you even listen to yourself?
I ignore the personal comment and explain using the analysis of Deep Blues Victory
Originally posted by Kuntz
They have no skills at all. They purely work by using probabilities they don't understand what they are doing🙂http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/wonews/mar03/chesscom.html
Read and understand this (sigh)
In his book, Behind Deep Blue: Building the Computer that Defeated the World Chess Champion http://pup.princeton.edu/titles/7342.html, Hsu (who left IBM in 1999) says that Grandmaster Joel Benjamin, a consultant to IBM, suggested assigning a certain value to files that were not open, but merely potentially open. That way, the computer would tend to place its rooks along the future file and thus be in a better position to dominate it when it did open. The result, to Kasparov's eyes, was a deeply conceived, strategic plan. Of course, the computer didn’t have such a plan, any more than bees plan to build a perfect hexagonal cell out of wax. They do so by following a very simple algorithm: if-this-then-that.
He is now changing his argument totally to me something quite different and we are not discussing probabilities anymore
So I agree with him
[QUOTE=4626232]Originally posted by Kuntz
[B]They are good at probabilities they do not know they are playing chessThey do not know anything
You agree then the answers are not already in them good 🙂
-Kuntz😄
he now goes off at a tangent no talk of probabilities or processing speed
Originally posted by Creshosk
No I quite disagree. You're talking about a very basic computer that has no programing.It's like saying that the computer doesn't have what we would define as a "picture" or "data assembled in such a way that it's displayed as a picture" or "data that interpreats and displays the data that is interpreted through this other data as what we would define as a picture"
You don't see a banana, you see ons and offs only, nothing that could even be interpreted by an even more sophisticated computer as anything that even resembles a banana.
Do you see a dancing banana? No you don't. There is no Banana as you only see what you want to see.
I try to explain and bring the debate back to the original point prcessing speed of probabilities
QUOTE=4626425]Originally posted by Kuntz
I'm off to bed now but all your doing is agreeing with me, all computers work the same from the most simple to the most complex. They all follow a binary program the only thing that has changes is processing speed and the number of 0 and 1 that can be processed how it is displayed is immaterial to the discussion if you do not understand that, and you think a computer knows anything or has actual answers you are sadly confused. They can give an illusion with AI but really its doing exactly the same thing. You obviously need to watch less star trek. Processing speed is the key and Flash can do that in spades. Even though the rate has changed the concept of Moore's Law in Computing still holds true.
http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue7_11/tuomi/
Read the Quantum dot or another simple guide to how a processor works at the Quantum level and you will see its all about options and probabilities. Nothing more nothing less.
Computers know nothing🙂
And if you think the flash can't operate like one all you have to realise is of course he can if he can answer yes no maybe etc.
Computers have the answers already in them?
No, they have no answers just calculations based on algorithms [/QUOTE]
Again he doesn't understand the concept of probabilities and goes off with a completely different argument, one he is right in but has nothing to do with speed.
Originally posted by KuntzAnd people say that you're a good debator. . yet you can't understand simple concepts.
Exactly Original statement
If you can't come up with the right scenerio, then you won't come up with the right scenerio, no matter how many scenerio's you go over nor how fast you go.
Computers can come up with the right scenerio because its already there.
If flash doesn't know there is a forecfield up ahead, he's not going to be able to factor it in to any of his scenerios.
If he doesn't know how to devise a battle strategy then he's not going to come up with the right battle strategy.
A thousand monkies banging away on a thousand type writers for a thousand years will never come up with the works of shakespere.
Function more as a human brain and grasp meaning, rather than a computer that only goes off of literal meaning.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Bullets suck at killing people becuase they don't know they're killing them. . .You have to know something in order to be able to do it. . .
🙄
And Computers don't have the answers. . .right. . which is why they can't conclude what the best move is which is why they can't "move a piece" which is why they can't play chess which is why they never win.
Uh huh. . . Right. . .
CM understands and chips in
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
But they still don't know they're playing chess, hence my point that thinking faster can still be effective, even if you don't "consciously" comprehend things.
I agree with him
Originally posted by Kuntz
Exactly the point I was making, I agree you just have more time to look at your options like a chess computer does🙂 Well done CM at least you understand.